Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Why don't you believe the Lord Jesus when He says that those to whom He gives eternal life will never perish?
He does not say that they will not perish only if they do not cease from obeying Him!
ECT The Purpose of Repentance Beginning With John the Baptist
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
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Why don't you believe the Lord Jesus when He says that those to whom He gives eternal life will never perish?
He does not say that they will not perish only if they do not cease from obeying Him!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Salvation comes to those who "believe" the gospel. it is not a matter of choosing.
A person either believes the gospel or he doesn't.
So once someone believes they are locked in for eternity, is that right?
Like it or not they are going to live forever and should feel free to sin, right?
What a goofy theory you have based on people never changing their mind.
Salvation is not based just on belief. You have missed step 2.
God's Truth
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What is wrong with you?!
Can you imagine obeying Jesus' beautiful, powerful, true words about humbling yourself...you humble yourself...and you feel the Majestic words of truth, but then you go along your way and stop humbling yourself...what has now just happened? You have gone BACK to what you were before!
Can you imagine obeying Jesus' beautiful, POWERFUL, TRUE words about forgiving others...you do that yourself, and you experience PEACE, peace that only God can give---but then later down the road you stop living through that forgiveness---do you really think that you haven't lost anything?!!! You lost that peace that came with forgiving others!---YOU STOPPED WHAT JESUS SAID TO DO JUST AS JESUS SAID TO DO!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).
turbosixx
New member
I agree with this verse 100%. When someone believes they will receive eternal life but again, I suggest you're taking certain passages and making them stand on their own as doctrine without viewing them in the light of other passages.
In another passage Jesus tells us about those who hear his words. Let's look at what he says there.
Matt. 7:24 Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man
Matt. 7:26 Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man
Which one heard Jesus' words and truly believed?
I would say there are passages that do not support this doctrinal view.
The bible tells us Simon "believed" but his heart was not right before God.
Acts 8:13 "Even Simon himself believed;"
Acts 8:20 But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. 22 Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity.”
Can someone who believes posses eternal life have a heart that is not be right with God and be in the bondage of iniquity?
Thanks for your comments.
Did the men then share with him God's word?
Is there more to God's word than what you are claiming?
Are you being deceptive by telling a half-truth? If so, why?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Let us look at this verse again:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
So do you agree with me that once a person believes then he is given eternal life?
These verses say nothing about how a person receives eternal life.
Simon is like the people who are spoken of here:
"Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men" (Jn.2:23-24).
Their faith was not a saving faith because it was based on nothing more than the miracles which they saw. on the other hand, since the LORD knows the heart of men and therefore He knows those who have true faith. And those receive eternal life. And the lord Jesus said that those to whom he gives eternal life shall never perish.
And His statement is an "unconditional" one which means that no conditions are attached. He does not say that I give them eternal life and they shall never perish UNLESS they do this or not do that.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
If I am being deceptive for telling a half-truth then so was Paul. Why would he do that?
He didn't, he went on to share God's word to explain what he meant by believe.
Belief is passive, what good are passive Christians?
Paul Harvey is no longer around to tell the rest of the story.
What you fail to admit is that Jesus was speaking about His death burial and resurrection. Although those hearing Him did not have to believe in this at that point in history to be born again Jesus already knew that the message of the kingdom was going to end in defeat because God preplanned it to. When Jesus arose from the grace the new dispensation began. Along with the new dispensation came added revelation for man to accept in order to be saved. Just believing that He is the Son of God was no longer enough.
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turbosixx
New member
Yes, when someone truly believes.
If you look at the context, that is exactly what's it's talking about.
What are you basing they aren't saved on? I see nothing to indicate that.
So you don't believe all you have to do is believe on Jesus? It says these people believed.
If it's "Jesus did not commit himself unto them", that's a different matter.
The bible says the same thing about Simon as it does the others believing the good news. It says AFTER they believed and were baptized is when they performed the miracles and Simon was amazed.
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike. 13 Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed.
Also, if you read on Simon wanted to be right before God.
Acts 8:24 But Simon answered and said, “Pray to the Lord for me yourselves, so that nothing of what you have said may come upon me.”
God's Truth
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Believe on Jesus about what?
God's Truth
New member
You said they didn't have saving faith because they believed on account of the miracles.
I will give you many scriptures that show you that what you said is wrong.
JESUS SAID Nathanael BELIEVED because Jesus told him he saw him under the fig tree. JESUS said that was WHY NATHANAEL BELIEVED. See John 1:50.
This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed at Cana in Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him. See John 2:11
After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. See John 2:22.
Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name. John 2:23.
Then the father realized that this was the exact time at which Jesus had said to him, “Your son will live.” So he and all his household believed. John 4:53
Still, many in the crowd put their faith in him. They said, “When the Christ comes, will he do more miraculous signs than this man?” John 7:31.
Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. John 10:37.
But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” John 10:38.
and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.” John 11:15.
I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me.” John 11:42.
Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you came from God.” John 16:30.
So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it.” John 20:25.
Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” John 20:27.
God's Truth
New member
The scriptures say GOD does NOT show favoritism. The scriptures say God will pay back to you according to what you do, if you do evil then wrath, if you obey then eternal life.
Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.
Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
Interplanner
Well-known member
concentrate on justification; I don't think you will resolve this one
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
This passage is speaking about men being judged according to their works or deeds alone:
"But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds" (Ro.2:5-6).
And then later Paul makes it plain that no one is saved in that way:
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Ro.3:23).
But you do your best and you might be the first.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
What's stopping you?
I don't know who you're talking to because you won't use the quote function, but in this verse the Lord Jesus thru Paul is talking to me:
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
God's Truth
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FAITH that Jesus' BLOOD cleans us.