ECT The Purpose of Repentance Beginning With John the Baptist

[Jerry Shugart]

Some people on this forum say that in order to be saved one must first repent of their sins. Let us take a look at the following things beginning with John the Baptist and see if that is true or not:

"In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight" (Mt.3:1-3).​

In this instance the Greek word translated "repent" means "to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins": Mt. iii.. 2 ; iv. 17 ; Mk. i. 14" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

At Matthew 3:3 we read of John the Baptist "preparing the way of the Lord" In regard to the kingdom which was at hand. In what way was he preparing the way?

It was necessary for the people to have a change of mind in regard to their sinful life style in order "make ready a people prepared for the Lord" so that they "might serve Him...in holiness and righteousness" (Lk.1:17,74-75).

This does not imply in any way "faith" in the gospel but instead things in the "moral" sphere and not the "spirtual" sphere. Later the Lord Jesus told the Jews exactly how they could be saved and the only requirement which He mentioned was to believe:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

From this we know that according to the Lord and Savior repenting from sins was not a requirement for being saved. According to Him salvation came to the Jews when they believed. We can see the same truth later when we examine His words spoken to the woman who washed His feet with her tears:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

With these things in view we can understand that the Jews were to repent of their sins so that they could serve Him. On the other hand, those who believed were saved.

In order to have a clear understanding of the Bible we must understand the difference between serving Him and being saved by Him. If a Christian's service comes up short he will still be saved, as witnessed by what Paul said here:

"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire" (1 Cor.3:13-15).​

 

[Interplanner]

You may do many similar things when you realize that Christ must be your righteousness, but none of those things 'saves' you.

Jerry is not using the clear terminology of justification. Justification is only in Christ. If you think 'saved' is some kind of experiential status, then good luck because everything will get murky and confusing. Justification is the issue and the only answer is to be in Christ by belief upon what he did about that problem.

 

[God's Truth]

The Purpose of Repentance Beginning With John the Baptist
Some people on this forum say that in order to be saved one must first repent of their sins. Let us take a look at the following things beginning with John the Baptist and see if that is true or not:

"In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight" (Mt.3:1-3).

In this instance the Greek word translated "repent" means "to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins": Mt. iii.. 2 ; iv. 17 ; Mk. i. 14" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

At Matthew 3:3 we read of John the Baptist "preparing the way of the Lord" In regard to the kingdom which was at hand. In what way was he preparing the way?

It was necessary for the people to have a change of mind in regard to their sinful life style in order "make ready a people prepared for the Lord" so that they "might serve Him...in holiness and righteousness" (Lk.1:17,74-75).

Jesus would not have come to them if they did not first repent of their sins.
John the baptizer prepared the way for Jesus. He came preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins (Luke 1:76-80).
We are still to confess that we are sinners, and to repent, to prepare the way for Jesus Christ to live in our heart.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Look at that, Paul taught repentance just like John the baptizer. Repent and prove your repentance by your deeds.

This does not imply in any way "faith" in the gospel but instead things in the "moral" sphere and not the "spirtual" sphere. Later the Lord Jesus told the Jews exactly how they could be saved and the only requirement which He mentioned was to believe:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).

From this we know that according to the Lord and Savior repenting from sins was not a requirement for being saved. According to Him salvation came to the Jews when they believed. We can see the same truth later when we examine His words spoken to the woman who washed His feet with her tears:

Repenting of sins was a requirement for being saved.
Does repent or perish mean anything to you?

Luke 13:2 To this He replied, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered this fate?

Luke 13:4 Or those eighteen who were killed when the tower of Siloam collapsed on them: Do you think that they were more sinful than all the others living in Jerusalem?
Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).

With these things in view we can understand that the Jews were to repent of their sins so that they could serve Him. On the other hand, those who believed were saved.

They had to believe that JESUS COULD FORGIVE THEIR SINS.
See where you have wandered from the truth.

In order to have a clear understanding of the Bible we must understand the difference between serving Him and being saved by Him.

Matthew 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Paul is speaking of two things here. He preached to the people to repent of their sinful lifestyles and to have faith in the Lord Jesus. As I have already demonstrated, it is those who have faith who are saved. The turning from their sinful life style is in regard to "service":

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service" (Ro.12:1).​

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Look at that, Paul taught repentance just like John the baptizer. Repent and prove your repentance by your deeds.

"But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance" (Acts 26:20).​

The primary meaning of the Greek word translated "repent" is "to change one's mind" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

Paul told the unsaved to change their minds about God and turn to Him and that was in regard to salvation. Then they were to do works meet for repentance and that is in regard to their service.

Now I have answered these two verses for you now tell us why the Apostle Paul made it plain that only "faith" was required in order to be saved:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:31-32).​

Tell us why Paul only mentioned faith as a requirement for salvation? Did he just forget to mention that in order for anyone to be saved they must believe AND repent from their sinful lifestyle?

Did he suddenly develop a case of amnesia? Why did he forget to mention repenting from a sinful lifestyle as a requirement for salvation?

 

[Interplanner]

You still haven't cleared up terminology.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

You still haven't cleared up terminology.

The irony...

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You still haven't cleared up terminology.

You said:

If you think 'saved' is some kind of experiential status, then good luck because everything will get murky and confusing.

I don't think anyone but you is confused when I used the word "saved" since in this case it is obviously referring to the salvation of the soul that is the result of a person's faith (1 Pet.1:9).

Do you think that what Peter wrote there is murky and confusing?

 

[jamie]

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:31-32).​

Tell us why Paul only mentioned faith as a requirement for salvation? Did he just forget to mention that in order for anyone to be saved they must believe AND repent from their sinful lifestyle?

Did he suddenly develop a case of amnesia? Why did he forget to mention repenting from a sinful lifestyle as a requirement for salvation?

Repentance was a given. Jesus said so.

 

[daqq]

Some people on this forum say that in order to be saved one must first repent of their sins. Let us take a look at the following things beginning with John the Baptist and see if that is true or not:

"In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight" (Mt.3:1-3).​

In this instance the Greek word translated "repent" means "to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins": Mt. iii.. 2 ; iv. 17 ; Mk. i. 14" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

At Matthew 3:3 we read of John the Baptist "preparing the way of the Lord" In regard to the kingdom which was at hand. In what way was he preparing the way?

It was necessary for the people to have a change of mind in regard to their sinful life style in order "make ready a people prepared for the Lord" so that they "might serve Him...in holiness and righteousness" (Lk.1:17,74-75).

This does not imply in any way "faith" in the gospel but instead things in the "moral" sphere and not the "spirtual" sphere. Later the Lord Jesus told the Jews exactly how they could be saved and the only requirement which He mentioned was to believe:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

From this we know that according to the Lord and Savior repenting from sins was not a requirement for being saved. According to Him salvation came to the Jews when they believed. We can see the same truth later when we examine His words spoken to the woman who washed His feet with her tears:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

With these things in view we can understand that the Jews were to repent of their sins so that they could serve Him. On the other hand, those who believed were saved.

In order to have a clear understanding of the Bible we must understand the difference between serving Him and being saved by Him. If a Christian's service comes up short he will still be saved, as witnessed by what Paul said here:

"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire" (1 Cor.3:13-15).
​

Mark 1:13-15 ASV
13 And he was in the wilderness forty days tempted of Satan; and he was with the wild beasts; [Hos 13:7-8, Dan 7:3-7, Rev 13:2] and the angels ministered unto him.
14 Now after John was delivered up, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
15 and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe in the gospel.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Repentance was a given. Jesus said so.

If repentance from a sinful lifestyle is a requirement for salvation then why did Paul not mention that?:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:31-32).​

Of course going from a state of unbelief unto a state of belief involves a change of mind. And that is the primary meaning of the Greek word translated "repent": "to change one's mind" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So in that sense no one can be saved unless they repent and therefore begin to believe the gospel.

 

[Interplanner]

Jerry,
you are overanalysing. The goodness of God leads us to repentance. These things may happen simultaneously, and it would be ridiculous for us to split hairs any further about it.

The thread is worthless.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Mark 1:13-15 ASV
13 And he was in the wilderness forty days tempted of Satan; and he was with the wild beasts; [Hos 13:7-8, Dan 7:3-7, Rev 13:2] and the angels ministered unto him.
14 Now after John was delivered up, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
15 and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe in the gospel.

In this instance the Greek word translated "repent" means "to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins": Mt. iii.. 2 ; iv. 17 ; Mk. i. 14" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

At Matthew 3:3 we read of John the Baptist "preparing the way of the Lord" In regard to the kingdom which was at hand. In what way was he preparing the way?

It was necessary for the people to have a change of mind in regard to their sinful life style in order "make ready a people prepared for the Lord" so that they "might serve Him...in holiness and righteousness" (Lk.1:17,74-75).

The repentance was in regard to "service" and not 'salvation."

Later the Lord Jesus told the Jews exactly how they could be saved and the only requirement which He mentioned was to believe:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

From this we know that according to the Lord and Savior repenting from sins was not a requirement for being saved. According to Him salvation came to the Jews when they believed. We can see the same truth later when we examine His words spoken to the woman who washed His feet with her tears:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

With these things in view we can understand that the Jews were to repent of their sins so that they could serve Him. On the other hand, those who believed were saved.

In order to have a clear understanding of the Bible we must understand the difference between serving Him and being saved by Him. If a Christian's service comes up short he will still be saved, as witnessed by what Paul said here:

"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire" (1 Cor.3:13-15).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry,
you are overanalysing. The goodness of God leads us to repentance.

Of course going from a state of unbelief unto a state of belief involves a change of mind. And that is the primary meaning of the Greek word translated "repent": "to change one's mind" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So in that sense no one can be saved unless they repent and therefore begin to believe the gospel.

 

[beloved57]

Some people on this forum say that in order to be saved one must first repent of their sins. Let us take a look at the following things beginning with John the Baptist and see if that is true or not:

"In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight" (Mt.3:1-3).​

In this instance the Greek word translated "repent" means "to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins": Mt. iii.. 2 ; iv. 17 ; Mk. i. 14" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

At Matthew 3:3 we read of John the Baptist "preparing the way of the Lord" In regard to the kingdom which was at hand. In what way was he preparing the way?

It was necessary for the people to have a change of mind in regard to their sinful life style in order "make ready a people prepared for the Lord" so that they "might serve Him...in holiness and righteousness" (Lk.1:17,74-75).

This does not imply in any way "faith" in the gospel but instead things in the "moral" sphere and not the "spirtual" sphere. Later the Lord Jesus told the Jews exactly how they could be saved and the only requirement which He mentioned was to believe:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

From this we know that according to the Lord and Savior repenting from sins was not a requirement for being saved. According to Him salvation came to the Jews when they believed. We can see the same truth later when we examine His words spoken to the woman who washed His feet with her tears:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

With these things in view we can understand that the Jews were to repent of their sins so that they could serve Him. On the other hand, those who believed were saved.

In order to have a clear understanding of the Bible we must understand the difference between serving Him and being saved by Him. If a Christian's service comes up short he will still be saved, as witnessed by what Paul said here:

"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire" (1 Cor.3:13-15).​

False and invalid comments not found in scripture !

 

[Jerry Shugart]

False and invalid comments not found in scripture !

Prove it!

 

[daqq]

In this instance the Greek word translated "repent" means "to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins": Mt. iii.. 2 ; iv. 17 ; Mk. i. 14" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

At Matthew 3:3 we read of John the Baptist "preparing the way of the Lord" In regard to the kingdom which was at hand. In what way was he preparing the way?

It was necessary for the people to have a change of mind in regard to their sinful life style in order "make ready a people prepared for the Lord" so that they "might serve Him...in holiness and righteousness" (Lk.1:17,74-75).

The repentance was in regard to "service" and not 'salvation."

Later the Lord Jesus told the Jews exactly how they could be saved and the only requirement which He mentioned was to believe:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

From this we know that according to the Lord and Savior repenting from sins was not a requirement for being saved. According to Him salvation came to the Jews when they believed. We can see the same truth later when we examine His words spoken to the woman who washed His feet with her tears:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

With these things in view we can understand that the Jews were to repent of their sins so that they could serve Him. On the other hand, those who believed were saved.

In order to have a clear understanding of the Bible we must understand the difference between serving Him and being saved by Him. If a Christian's service comes up short he will still be saved, as witnessed by what Paul said here:

"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire" (1 Cor.3:13-15).​

So essentially what you admit is that the Master himself says the same as Yohanan the Immerser; but you say it does not apply to you because you have some other way through Paul. That is one of the reasons why I quoted the passage that I did and highlighted what else I did; for the immersion of Yohanan is the Revelation of Messiah Yeshua, (which Yohanan penned), and Paul tells you that this is from where his gospel likewise derives when he explains it in Galatians, (the Revelation of Messiah Yeshua, Gal 1:12, which is nearly identical in the Greek with the opening statement from the Book of the Revelation of Messiah Yeshua, by which opening statement that book is now named). The Sanhedrin had no jurisdiction in Damascus of Syria but did indeed have jurisdiction when it came to Damascus-Qumran, (the Zadokites of the Qumran community called their community Damascus, which means "blood inheritor"). Shaul therefore had experienced his conversion on the road to Damascus-Qumran, (not Damascus of Syria). Ananias, (Hananiah), was also a Zadokite of the Zadok priestly line, but considered a renegade by his own Zadokite brethren from the city because he confessed Messiah, (the "Sadducees" at Jerusalem were Zadokites), and therefore Ananias was hiding out at Damascus-Qumran which was overseen by Zadokites. It was that Ananias which was sent by the Master to Shaul so that he might receive his sight back again. He then tells Shaul to go and immerse; and it is not a water immersion but immersion into the Word, as it always is concerning the supernal and spiritual Word, and how so do you suppose that came to be? Shaul went into the desert of Arabia for six months to immerse himself into the immersion of Yohanan, that is, the writing of Yohanan, the greatest of all the Prophets having been born of women, which writing Ananias had given him, which is the Apocalypse-Revelation of Messiah Yeshua, (and therefore the Gospel which Paul preached, indeed, did not come by way of man). After six months immersing, in the desert of Arabia, Shaul went back to Damascus-Qumran, (Aretas fits the typology of Azazel, king of the desert, with his governor at Damascus), where Shaul spent three years for a total of three and a half years before he went up again to Jerusalem. Does that not sound familiar to you? That is forty-two months including six months in the desert of Arabia and three years in Damascus-Qumran. Your version of the Gospel of Paul therefore does not appear to be quite so true as you might think. Look into the conversion of Cornelius and you will see that he and his household also already knew full well of the immersion of Yohanan, as stated not once but twice by Peter himself, (Acts 10:37, 11:16, which statements refer back to the statement from the Master himself in Acts 1:5, (which is not usually rendered quite exactly for what it truly states concerning the necessity of the immersion of Yohanan coming first)).

 

[beloved57]

Prove it!

You did already. All one has to do is read your comments, not one them is in scripture.

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[jamie]

In order to have a clear understanding of the Bible we must understand the difference between serving Him and being saved by Him. If a Christian's service comes up short he will still be saved, as witnessed by what Paul said here:

What do you see as being the purpose of salvation? Why does God give eternal life?

Does he have a reason?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So essentially what you admit is that the Master himself says the same as Yohanan the Immerser; but you say it does not apply to you because you have some other way through Paul.

The way that I have been saved through Paul is what was revealed to him by the Master Himself:

"But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ" (Gal.1:11-12).​

Here is the gospel which was preached to me and the gospel by which I was saved. The same gospel which the Lord Jesus revealed to Paul:

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1-4).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What do you see as being the purpose of salvation? Why does God give eternal life?

Does he have a reason?

"In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in Christ" (Eph.1:11-12).​