The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
beloved57
Well-known member
John 3:16 ; Eph 5:25
John 3:16
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Eph 5:25
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Folks the World that God Loved and Gave His Son for, is the Church that Christ Loved and gave Himself for !
Lets do a word study here. The word for world is the greek word kosmos and means:
an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3
3) the world, the universe
4) the circle of the earth, the earth
5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
7) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
a) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
Notice, that the world is any aggregate or general collection of particulars of ANY SORT !
We cannot ignore these definition.
Now what is this word aggregate mean ? Our english dictionary says:
formed by the conjunction or collection of particulars into a whole mass or sum; total; combined
a sum, mass, or assemblage of particulars; a total or gross amount:
Now notice the word assemblage as in assemblage of particulars. The word means:
a group of persons or things gathered or collected; an assembly; collection; aggregate.
Now I derive at this from a simple study of the word world !
Now lets look at the word Church in Eph 5:25. It is the greek word ekklēsia and means:
a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
a) an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
b) the assembly of the Israelites
c) any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
d) in a Christian sense
1) an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
5) the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven
The Church is an assemblage ! And an Assemblage as we see is also a World !
So the World of Jn 3:16 that God so Loved, was none other than the Church that Christ Loved and gave Himself for !
The total collection and gathering of the sum total of all the Sheep as Jn 10:16
16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Yes, this One Fold of Sheep is the World God so loved !
So the word world does not have to mean everyone without exception !
The assembly of the Israelites alone technically by definition is a World ! The Assembly of the Spiritual Israelites, the Israel of God is a World !
John 3:16
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Eph 5:25
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Folks the World that God Loved and Gave His Son for, is the Church that Christ Loved and gave Himself for !
Lets do a word study here. The word for world is the greek word kosmos and means:
an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3
3) the world, the universe
4) the circle of the earth, the earth
5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
7) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
a) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
Notice, that the world is any aggregate or general collection of particulars of ANY SORT !
We cannot ignore these definition.
Now what is this word aggregate mean ? Our english dictionary says:
formed by the conjunction or collection of particulars into a whole mass or sum; total; combined
a sum, mass, or assemblage of particulars; a total or gross amount:
Now notice the word assemblage as in assemblage of particulars. The word means:
a group of persons or things gathered or collected; an assembly; collection; aggregate.
Now I derive at this from a simple study of the word world !
Now lets look at the word Church in Eph 5:25. It is the greek word ekklēsia and means:
a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
a) an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
b) the assembly of the Israelites
c) any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
d) in a Christian sense
1) an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
5) the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven
The Church is an assemblage ! And an Assemblage as we see is also a World !
So the World of Jn 3:16 that God so Loved, was none other than the Church that Christ Loved and gave Himself for !
The total collection and gathering of the sum total of all the Sheep as Jn 10:16
16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Yes, this One Fold of Sheep is the World God so loved !
So the word world does not have to mean everyone without exception !
The assembly of the Israelites alone technically by definition is a World ! The Assembly of the Spiritual Israelites, the Israel of God is a World !
Last edited:
beloved57
Well-known member
2 Cor 5:21 Who are the Us ?
2 Cor 5:21
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This scripture here when properly understood, teaches that Christ did not die for everyone in the world without exception. The being made sin here speaks to Him being made a sin offering, as Isa 53 stated it here Isa 53:10
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
And so, Paul says to the Corinthian Church this 1 Cor 15:3
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And so, who are the Our Sins Christ died for ? Why its the same ones Paul says later on in the second letter to the same, those who Christ was made sin in behalf of, and those are made the Righteousness of God in Him. So there you have it, we see who it is Christ died for, them only who are made Righteous See Rom 5:19b. Now are all men without exception made Righteous ? Then the Extent of Christ's Death could not have been for all men without exception ! It was for His Church which He Loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25-27
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
So He was made sin for the Church, His Body !
2 Cor 5:21
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This scripture here when properly understood, teaches that Christ did not die for everyone in the world without exception. The being made sin here speaks to Him being made a sin offering, as Isa 53 stated it here Isa 53:10
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
And so, Paul says to the Corinthian Church this 1 Cor 15:3
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And so, who are the Our Sins Christ died for ? Why its the same ones Paul says later on in the second letter to the same, those who Christ was made sin in behalf of, and those are made the Righteousness of God in Him. So there you have it, we see who it is Christ died for, them only who are made Righteous See Rom 5:19b. Now are all men without exception made Righteous ? Then the Extent of Christ's Death could not have been for all men without exception ! It was for His Church which He Loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25-27
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
So He was made sin for the Church, His Body !
Last edited:
beloved57
Well-known member
Sanctified by His Death Permanently !
We know that Jesus Christ did not die for everyone without exception because by His Death or Offering, He has sanctified all for whom He was offered in behalf of permanently, once and for all ! Heb 10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Now can this be said of all without exception ? Is it true of the workers of Iniquity that Jesus will say this to Matt 7:23
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Do you really believe that these were sanctified once and for all by His Offering, or His Death , for His Offering and Death are the same thing you know ! His Death is a expiation Offering !
Now if Christ died for them He is speaking to in Matt 7:23, then they can say while in everlasting Fire, that I too have been sanctified once and for all by Christ's Death ! You see how inconsistent that is with the Lie that Christ died for all without exception ?
We know that Jesus Christ did not die for everyone without exception because by His Death or Offering, He has sanctified all for whom He was offered in behalf of permanently, once and for all ! Heb 10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Now can this be said of all without exception ? Is it true of the workers of Iniquity that Jesus will say this to Matt 7:23
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Do you really believe that these were sanctified once and for all by His Offering, or His Death , for His Offering and Death are the same thing you know ! His Death is a expiation Offering !
Now if Christ died for them He is speaking to in Matt 7:23, then they can say while in everlasting Fire, that I too have been sanctified once and for all by Christ's Death ! You see how inconsistent that is with the Lie that Christ died for all without exception ?
Last edited:
beloved57
Well-known member
Particular Redemption !
Even though I know many cannot and will not receive this Truth, because they believe the lie that Christ died for all men, making all men without exception redeemable, nevertheless Redemption in Christ is limited to a Chosen People Eph 1:7
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Now who are the we Paul is Identifying Himself with ? Its the Chosen of God Eph 1:3-4
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
That this Redemption God provides is for only for a Elect People is seen in the OT Scriptures, which gives a Divine Command Ps 130:7-8
7 Let Israel hope in the Lord: for with the Lord there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.
8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
This is the Redemption the old Saint referred to here Lk 1:68
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
This is speaking of Jesus Christ, the Head of His Body the Church Titus 2:14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Compare this scripture with Ps 130:8
And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
I know many will reject this clear Truth ! And Yes, this means Israel of Ps 130:7-8 is the Church of Titus 2:14 !
Even though I know many cannot and will not receive this Truth, because they believe the lie that Christ died for all men, making all men without exception redeemable, nevertheless Redemption in Christ is limited to a Chosen People Eph 1:7
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Now who are the we Paul is Identifying Himself with ? Its the Chosen of God Eph 1:3-4
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
That this Redemption God provides is for only for a Elect People is seen in the OT Scriptures, which gives a Divine Command Ps 130:7-8
7 Let Israel hope in the Lord: for with the Lord there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.
8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
This is the Redemption the old Saint referred to here Lk 1:68
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
This is speaking of Jesus Christ, the Head of His Body the Church Titus 2:14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Compare this scripture with Ps 130:8
And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
I know many will reject this clear Truth ! And Yes, this means Israel of Ps 130:7-8 is the Church of Titus 2:14 !
Last edited:
beloved57
Well-known member
God only pardons those He has reserved !
Jer 50:20
In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.
This also speaks to Particular Redemption, for Pardon comes through Redemption as Per Eph 1:7
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
The word forgiveness is the greek word aphesis:
release from bondage or imprisonment
2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty
And of course we know Eph 1:7 is speaking of the Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4
Mich 7:18
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
You see, pardoneth of the remnant, not all mankind, and this is speaking of God's Mercy, but its restricted, and so Paul writes Rom 9:18
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
He is particular about who He has mercy and pardon on !
Rom 11:4
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
You see that ? I have reserved to myself ! Thats God's Freewill doing that !
We never truly worship the True God of Heaven until we understand this !
Jer 50:20
In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.
This also speaks to Particular Redemption, for Pardon comes through Redemption as Per Eph 1:7
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
The word forgiveness is the greek word aphesis:
release from bondage or imprisonment
2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty
And of course we know Eph 1:7 is speaking of the Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4
Mich 7:18
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
You see, pardoneth of the remnant, not all mankind, and this is speaking of God's Mercy, but its restricted, and so Paul writes Rom 9:18
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
He is particular about who He has mercy and pardon on !
Rom 11:4
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
You see that ? I have reserved to myself ! Thats God's Freewill doing that !
We never truly worship the True God of Heaven until we understand this !
Last edited:
beloved57
Well-known member
That Jesus did not come to save all men without exception, nor to call them to Himself, is plainly intimated here Lk 5:32
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
There is a certain segment that He did not come to call to Himself. His Purpose for them was to make blind, or to confirm them in their delusions John 9:39
39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
This verse alone should convince us that some are made vessels of wrath to be fitted for destruction ! The others, He came that they might see, in other words, the Children of the Covenant will have their blind spiritual eyes opened to See Jesus as their Saviour ! Isa 42:6-7
6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
There is a certain segment that He did not come to call to Himself. His Purpose for them was to make blind, or to confirm them in their delusions John 9:39
39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
This verse alone should convince us that some are made vessels of wrath to be fitted for destruction ! The others, He came that they might see, in other words, the Children of the Covenant will have their blind spiritual eyes opened to See Jesus as their Saviour ! Isa 42:6-7
6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
beloved57
Well-known member
One of the many scriptures that the opposing crowd twist to teach that Jesus Christ did die for the sins of every single individual in the world without exception is this one Jn 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
But this scripture says nothing of the sort.
When John here spoke of Christ being that Lamb that taketh away the sin of the World, He was speaking of an Elect World, the Church of Christ in Fact of Eph 5:25, and that according to promise. Its the World of God's Elect Israel and Judah as Per Jer 50:20
In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.
The World of His New Covenant People of which Christ is the Mediator of Heb 8:6-12
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Vs 12 here confirms what is promised in Jer 50:20, Their sins and iniquities will not be found, the reason why, they have been taken away by the Lamb of God Jn 1:29, the Mediator of the New Covenant Heb 8:6
The House of Israel and Judah in Heb 8:8 and Jer 50:20 are spiritually referring to the elect jews and elect gentiles, and that constitutes the World of Jn 1:29 !
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
But this scripture says nothing of the sort.
When John here spoke of Christ being that Lamb that taketh away the sin of the World, He was speaking of an Elect World, the Church of Christ in Fact of Eph 5:25, and that according to promise. Its the World of God's Elect Israel and Judah as Per Jer 50:20
In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.
The World of His New Covenant People of which Christ is the Mediator of Heb 8:6-12
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Vs 12 here confirms what is promised in Jer 50:20, Their sins and iniquities will not be found, the reason why, they have been taken away by the Lamb of God Jn 1:29, the Mediator of the New Covenant Heb 8:6
The House of Israel and Judah in Heb 8:8 and Jer 50:20 are spiritually referring to the elect jews and elect gentiles, and that constitutes the World of Jn 1:29 !
Last edited:
beloved57
Well-known member
In Jn 17:9
Jn 17:9
9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
In and throughout this prayer of intercession, it is Christ praying to the Father, that as many as He has been given, and that He should lay down His Life in behalf of, that they receive the full benefit of it; for He having on their behalf, satisfied all of God's Law and Justice, for all their Transgressions Isa 53:5 against His Holy Law; and so it is, when He says in Jn 17:9, " I pray not for the World", meaning all mankind without exception, He is openly acknowledging that it is not for the world of mankind in general that He is to die for, and so it was not for mankind in general that He prayed that it would receive the Redemptive benefits of His Death !
Jn 17:9
9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
In and throughout this prayer of intercession, it is Christ praying to the Father, that as many as He has been given, and that He should lay down His Life in behalf of, that they receive the full benefit of it; for He having on their behalf, satisfied all of God's Law and Justice, for all their Transgressions Isa 53:5 against His Holy Law; and so it is, when He says in Jn 17:9, " I pray not for the World", meaning all mankind without exception, He is openly acknowledging that it is not for the world of mankind in general that He is to die for, and so it was not for mankind in general that He prayed that it would receive the Redemptive benefits of His Death !
Last edited:
beloved57
Well-known member
Acting as High Priest !
If Christ in Jn 17:9 was acting as High Priest, and no doubt He was since He was about to sacrifice Himself Jn 17:19
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Note: This Sanctification denotes His Death !
This being the case, He would be performing the duties of the High Priest in His Prayer in Jn 17:9, its called intercession Heb 7:25-26, Now since Christ expressly said, that He intercedes not in behalf of the whole world of mankind in general, then there is no ground whatsoever to say that His Sacrificial death of Himself Jn 17:19 was for mankind in general ! It's pretty simple, since He did not intercede for everyone without exception, then He did not die for everyone without exception, and when He said here Jn 17:9,19,20 still applies to day !
To preach that Christ died or sacrificed Himself for the whole world without exception, for everyone in that sense, is preaching a false Gospel !
If Christ in Jn 17:9 was acting as High Priest, and no doubt He was since He was about to sacrifice Himself Jn 17:19
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Note: This Sanctification denotes His Death !
This being the case, He would be performing the duties of the High Priest in His Prayer in Jn 17:9, its called intercession Heb 7:25-26, Now since Christ expressly said, that He intercedes not in behalf of the whole world of mankind in general, then there is no ground whatsoever to say that His Sacrificial death of Himself Jn 17:19 was for mankind in general ! It's pretty simple, since He did not intercede for everyone without exception, then He did not die for everyone without exception, and when He said here Jn 17:9,19,20 still applies to day !
To preach that Christ died or sacrificed Himself for the whole world without exception, for everyone in that sense, is preaching a false Gospel !
Last edited:
beloved57
Well-known member
I lay down my Life for the Sheep !
Christ has already stated specifically for whom He laid down His life for, do you believe Him is the question ? Jn 10:11-15
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Therefore the OUR SINS in 1 Cor 15:3 would refer to the Sheep !
Christ says that He knows His Sheep Vs 14 which we understand to meaneth He foreknew them all Rom 11:2
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
And it should also be made clear that one does not have to be a believer in Christ to be one of His Sheep, for this is understood by Christ statement ' Other Sheep I have that are not of this fold [ethnic jews, but of the gentiles also] of which He says, them also I must bring, and they SHALL HEAR MY VOICE, which is the Gospel of their Salvation, and by that Hearing, Faith comes. Jn 10:16
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
At that time, those Sheep in the gentiles, were unbelievers and Idolaters, but they were still His Sheep that He had. He had them because the Father had gave them to Him, and this ensured that they would Hear His Voice and Believe, another way of saying what He said in Jn 6:37
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
They are given to Christ before they come to Him or Believe in Him !
Yet many deceivers would have us believe that one is not a Sheep of Christ until after they believe, which has now been proven to be error, a lie, by Christ's very words ! " Other Sheep I have" yet being uncalled by the Gospel as of yet to Gospel Faith and Obedience.
Note: Even the unbelieving Sheep are never the goats, that shall hear this words soon Matt 25:33,41
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
And it is a lie, and cannot be supported by scripture that Christ laid down His Life for the goats , and He never said He did !
Christ has already stated specifically for whom He laid down His life for, do you believe Him is the question ? Jn 10:11-15
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Therefore the OUR SINS in 1 Cor 15:3 would refer to the Sheep !
Christ says that He knows His Sheep Vs 14 which we understand to meaneth He foreknew them all Rom 11:2
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
And it should also be made clear that one does not have to be a believer in Christ to be one of His Sheep, for this is understood by Christ statement ' Other Sheep I have that are not of this fold [ethnic jews, but of the gentiles also] of which He says, them also I must bring, and they SHALL HEAR MY VOICE, which is the Gospel of their Salvation, and by that Hearing, Faith comes. Jn 10:16
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
At that time, those Sheep in the gentiles, were unbelievers and Idolaters, but they were still His Sheep that He had. He had them because the Father had gave them to Him, and this ensured that they would Hear His Voice and Believe, another way of saying what He said in Jn 6:37
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
They are given to Christ before they come to Him or Believe in Him !
Yet many deceivers would have us believe that one is not a Sheep of Christ until after they believe, which has now been proven to be error, a lie, by Christ's very words ! " Other Sheep I have" yet being uncalled by the Gospel as of yet to Gospel Faith and Obedience.
Note: Even the unbelieving Sheep are never the goats, that shall hear this words soon Matt 25:33,41
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
And it is a lie, and cannot be supported by scripture that Christ laid down His Life for the goats , and He never said He did !
Last edited:
beloved57
Well-known member
Particular Salvation for the Children !
Heb 2:14-16
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
There is just no way to preach the True Gospel without emphasis on whose sins Christ died for, and it certainly was not for the sins of all men without exception, for scripture never particularly states that, however on many occasions it does particularly states exactly for whom Christ died for or gave Himself for, for instance here in Eph 5:25, the inspired testimony here is that He particularly gave Himself as an Offering for the Church !
Now lets look at another passage that specifically states whom Christ died for Heb 2:14-16, The Children, for notice it reads " for the Children took part of flesh and blood" both in their, both in their Federal Natural Head Adam at Creation, and individually at their own physical birth, He [ Their Head Spiritually] took on the same, that is a Physical Existence in Flesh and Blood, and for what purpose, it was to deliver them [The Children], for He came to specifically, and particularly deliver or release them from the fear of death, and the way He did that was for their sake abolish Death altogether 2 Tim 1:10
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
Note: None for whom Christ died shall ever see Death, because it has for them been abolished !
So its impossible for anyone Christ died for to ever experience this Rev 20:14
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Heb 2:14-16
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
There is just no way to preach the True Gospel without emphasis on whose sins Christ died for, and it certainly was not for the sins of all men without exception, for scripture never particularly states that, however on many occasions it does particularly states exactly for whom Christ died for or gave Himself for, for instance here in Eph 5:25, the inspired testimony here is that He particularly gave Himself as an Offering for the Church !
Now lets look at another passage that specifically states whom Christ died for Heb 2:14-16, The Children, for notice it reads " for the Children took part of flesh and blood" both in their, both in their Federal Natural Head Adam at Creation, and individually at their own physical birth, He [ Their Head Spiritually] took on the same, that is a Physical Existence in Flesh and Blood, and for what purpose, it was to deliver them [The Children], for He came to specifically, and particularly deliver or release them from the fear of death, and the way He did that was for their sake abolish Death altogether 2 Tim 1:10
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
Note: None for whom Christ died shall ever see Death, because it has for them been abolished !
So its impossible for anyone Christ died for to ever experience this Rev 20:14
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Last edited:
beloved57
Well-known member
Particular Salvation for the Children ! cont
So Death has been abolished for the Children, those whom Christ died for !Now more into the definiteness who the Children are that Christ came and took on Flesh and Blood in behalf of ! Is it all Humanity without exception ? No it is NOT, for the Children are those given to Christ in Election Heb 2:13,16
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
And secondly the Children are the Seed of Abraham Vs 16
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Bingo, this tells us specifically that it was not for the Human Race without exception that Christ came to deliver from the fear of Death, but for a specific seed.
As it is written in many translations it reads like this:
For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.
For verily not to angels doth he give help, but he giveth help to the seed of Abraham.
Thats simply is the Elect of the World of mankind ! It is God's Elect People out of all Nations Gen 17:5
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
God gave Abraham a Seed in the Gentile Nations; Now lets look at Rom 4:16
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
And so that is who is meant in Heb 2:16 the seed of Abraham ! All the Seed of Abraham Rom 4:16 is whom Christ particularly came to save, and no others !
So Death has been abolished for the Children, those whom Christ died for !Now more into the definiteness who the Children are that Christ came and took on Flesh and Blood in behalf of ! Is it all Humanity without exception ? No it is NOT, for the Children are those given to Christ in Election Heb 2:13,16
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
And secondly the Children are the Seed of Abraham Vs 16
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Bingo, this tells us specifically that it was not for the Human Race without exception that Christ came to deliver from the fear of Death, but for a specific seed.
As it is written in many translations it reads like this:
For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.
For verily not to angels doth he give help, but he giveth help to the seed of Abraham.
Thats simply is the Elect of the World of mankind ! It is God's Elect People out of all Nations Gen 17:5
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
God gave Abraham a Seed in the Gentile Nations; Now lets look at Rom 4:16
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
And so that is who is meant in Heb 2:16 the seed of Abraham ! All the Seed of Abraham Rom 4:16 is whom Christ particularly came to save, and no others !
Last edited:
beloved57
Well-known member
Particular Salvation for the Children ! cont
Heb 2:13
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
Again these are the same Children that Christ came to Identify with and deliver from death in Heb 2:14 and that are the seed of Abraham in Vs 16 !
These are the Children or the seed God gave to Christ in Divine Election Eph 1:4, and they are also the same ones Jesus refers to here Jn 17:2,6
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Jesus says similar of His Sheep, "thou gavest them me" Jn 10:29
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
And as in the Heb 2 passage, He came to die for them, so likewise in Jn 17:19
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself or Die as an Offering, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
He came to sanctify Himself which means His Offering Himself and as The High priest to Offer Himself Upon the Altar of God's Judgment for them !
Now as Children given Him Heb 2:13, they are His Seed, those referred to here Isa 53:10
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
Thats the Pleasure of the Lord, to See His Seed saved and Converted because Christ was made an Offering for sin for them and them only !
Heb 2:13
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
Again these are the same Children that Christ came to Identify with and deliver from death in Heb 2:14 and that are the seed of Abraham in Vs 16 !
These are the Children or the seed God gave to Christ in Divine Election Eph 1:4, and they are also the same ones Jesus refers to here Jn 17:2,6
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Jesus says similar of His Sheep, "thou gavest them me" Jn 10:29
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
And as in the Heb 2 passage, He came to die for them, so likewise in Jn 17:19
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself or Die as an Offering, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
He came to sanctify Himself which means His Offering Himself and as The High priest to Offer Himself Upon the Altar of God's Judgment for them !
Now as Children given Him Heb 2:13, they are His Seed, those referred to here Isa 53:10
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
Thats the Pleasure of the Lord, to See His Seed saved and Converted because Christ was made an Offering for sin for them and them only !
Last edited:
beloved57
Well-known member
Scripture that teaches limited atonement !
A scripture or passage that does teach the definite or particular redemption is Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Notice for whom Christ came to specifically to redeem ' To redeem them that were under the Law [a specific people] that we [those under the law] might receive the Adoption of Sons ! Now what can be more particular than this phraseology used by the Spirit of God through the chosen Apostle, Paul says that WE [Believers] who were under the Law, might receive the Adoption of Sons [New Birth]. Now this Adoption was predestinated to occur Eph 1:4-5, and who was it that was predestinated to the Adoption of Sons ? It was the Chosen in Christ before the foundation, Eph 1:4 So this confirms the definite intention of Redemption for a definite People !
A scripture or passage that does teach the definite or particular redemption is Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Notice for whom Christ came to specifically to redeem ' To redeem them that were under the Law [a specific people] that we [those under the law] might receive the Adoption of Sons ! Now what can be more particular than this phraseology used by the Spirit of God through the chosen Apostle, Paul says that WE [Believers] who were under the Law, might receive the Adoption of Sons [New Birth]. Now this Adoption was predestinated to occur Eph 1:4-5, and who was it that was predestinated to the Adoption of Sons ? It was the Chosen in Christ before the foundation, Eph 1:4 So this confirms the definite intention of Redemption for a definite People !
Last edited:
beloved57
Well-known member
Jn 11: 50-52 Particular Redemption !
That the scriptures teaches limited atonement or Particular redemption of some is seen here Jn 11:50-52
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
What is being stated here, is who Christ is to die for, Caiaphas speaking by inspiration of the Spirit is saying, Christ is to die for God's People, Sheep in the Nation of Israel, but not those Sheep only, but also for His Sheep or Children of God all over the World. Basically what's being said is the same as what Jesus said before in Chapter 10 Jn 10:15-16
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
The bringing together of the Sheep here in Vs 16 and the gathering of the Children of God in Vs 52 are the same and is accomplished by the Death of Christ.
The objects of His Death are His Sheep or the Children of God, nothing about all mankind without exception, that has been introduced by false teaching of those who oppose the Truth !
The Children of God are manifested as to who they are by God given Faith Gal 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
So in the end, only believers in Christ are those whom Christ died for, all the Children of God !
That means those who remain in unbelief were not those Christ died for, and were not the Children of God but Children of the devil ! 1 Jn 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
That the scriptures teaches limited atonement or Particular redemption of some is seen here Jn 11:50-52
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
What is being stated here, is who Christ is to die for, Caiaphas speaking by inspiration of the Spirit is saying, Christ is to die for God's People, Sheep in the Nation of Israel, but not those Sheep only, but also for His Sheep or Children of God all over the World. Basically what's being said is the same as what Jesus said before in Chapter 10 Jn 10:15-16
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
The bringing together of the Sheep here in Vs 16 and the gathering of the Children of God in Vs 52 are the same and is accomplished by the Death of Christ.
The objects of His Death are His Sheep or the Children of God, nothing about all mankind without exception, that has been introduced by false teaching of those who oppose the Truth !
The Children of God are manifested as to who they are by God given Faith Gal 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
So in the end, only believers in Christ are those whom Christ died for, all the Children of God !
That means those who remain in unbelief were not those Christ died for, and were not the Children of God but Children of the devil ! 1 Jn 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Last edited:
beloved57
Well-known member
He Died for those Chosen In Him !
The Death of the Lord Jesus Christ was not and could not have been valid for none but those who by Divine Election were Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen [for Himself] us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
And thus had a Pre - Union with Christ, else God's Justice could not have permitted His Death for them.
This Pre - Union also had to be the case for all whom sinned and died in Adam or again God's Justice could not have permitted it.
If we receive the Truth that men had a existence/ union in Adam before they had a actual being, then why not receive the Truth that men had a Union /Existence in Christ before they had a actual being ? For to accept the one without accepting the other is inconsistent !
The Death of the Lord Jesus Christ was not and could not have been valid for none but those who by Divine Election were Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen [for Himself] us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
And thus had a Pre - Union with Christ, else God's Justice could not have permitted His Death for them.
This Pre - Union also had to be the case for all whom sinned and died in Adam or again God's Justice could not have permitted it.
If we receive the Truth that men had a existence/ union in Adam before they had a actual being, then why not receive the Truth that men had a Union /Existence in Christ before they had a actual being ? For to accept the one without accepting the other is inconsistent !
Last edited:
oatmeal
Well-known member
Beloved,
Grace and peace,
As steko and patricius pointed out:
All the sins in the world have been paid for (with the exception of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is unforgivable) however.
But we must distinguish between those who choose to believe and those who do not.
The sheep in the gospels are those who chose to believe.
Christians are never directly referred to as sheep. Although a pastor means shepherd.
oatmeal
Grace and peace,
As steko and patricius pointed out:
All the sins in the world have been paid for (with the exception of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is unforgivable) however.
But we must distinguish between those who choose to believe and those who do not.
The sheep in the gospels are those who chose to believe.
Christians are never directly referred to as sheep. Although a pastor means shepherd.
oatmeal