The Gospel Of Thomas

JosephR

New member
Yes, we agree a 'fasting' from the world, is abstaining from and/or transcending the material world and the activities related to its maintenance, to set our attention to things of the Spirit.

Regarding the 'sabbath', we take both the exoteric and esoteric aspects of it, and find that more liberal interpreters hold a more 'esoteric' translation of what the Sabbath is for, whether it is held exclusively for a 7th day observation (formally) or is more loosely applied to any day of the week, as living a life ever genuflecting the divine. This is where different nuances of 'controversy' appear regarding 'sabbath' observance. Just how far is one to take its specificity or literal observance to 'days' or 'time-intervals', and how much liberty are we to subscribe to or reject such? Granted that some gnostic groups did not look too favorably upon Yhwh (the more extreme end of the spectrum)...they probably 'interpreted' such more esoterically if anything, while some groups saw his laws as being basically good-willed and intentioned, which could be used in worship of the Living Father, the only real and Most High God.



Two wonderful key concepts here are in 'finding' and 'seeing' the kingdom. To 'find' is to 'see',....to 'see'...is to 'find'. In the purest gnostic sense,....'seeing' is everything. To see or behold is to possess, to 'know' (in the deepest level of being, interiorly where the spirit of Deity dwells, and is its own 'light'). We could say more, but only 'realization' itself...can attest to its authenticity, for each must come to 'find', to 'see', to 'realize' the kingdom for himself.




pj


Yes I agree PJ, the point of the Sabbath is not the day, but what you did in that day.. You used that day to seek inwardly to God and to worship "prayer" so that you can grow, the physical day itself was just to make sure you took time to do that. To take away from your carnal needs,, cooking,gathering,work ect ect to devote to your spiritual growth.

IN old days it would take a whole family or community 7 days a week of farming,hunting ect ect to make sure they had enough to eat and survive, so to keep this spiritual growth is a great testament to the Kingdom of God indeed and very noteworthy and commendable.
 

JosephR

New member
(30) Jesus said: Where there are three gods, they are gods; where there are two or one, I am with him.

This is the Blatz translation.

Here are a few more, maybe we should discuss which one to discuss and why.

DORESSE - Oxyrhynchus
Jesus says: "Where there are [two (?) they are] not without God, and where there is one, I say <to you>, I am with him. Raise the stone, and there thou wilt find me; split the wood: I am even there!"
ATTRIDGE - Oxyrhynchus
(30 + 77b) [Jesus said], "Where there are [three], they are without God, and where there is but [a single one], I say that I am with [him]. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there. Split the piece of wood, and I am there."
 

Levolor

New member
(30) Jesus said: Where there are three gods, they are gods; where there are two or one, I am with him.

This is the Blatz translation.

I have only read the Blatz translation.

Here are a few more, maybe we should discuss which one to discuss and why.

DORESSE - Oxyrhynchus
Jesus says: "Where there are [two (?) they are] not without God, and where there is one, I say <to you>, I am with him. Raise the stone, and there thou wilt find me; split the wood: I am even there!"
ATTRIDGE - Oxyrhynchus
(30 + 77b) [Jesus said], "Where there are [three], they are without God, and where there is but [a single one], I say that I am with [him]. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there. Split the piece of wood, and I am there."

Aren't these, in essence, in another saying of the Blatz translation?
 

Levolor

New member
I am not sure, take a look here if you got time and help me reckon it if you will.

I would normally only use the Blatz but because of the implications of this saying I looked further.

Take a look here?

Where?

Now the link shows up!.
 
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unknown

New member
(30) Jesus said: Where there are three gods, they are gods; where there are two or one, I am with him.

This is the Blatz translation.

Here are a few more, maybe we should discuss which one to discuss and why.

DORESSE - Oxyrhynchus
Jesus says: "Where there are [two (?) they are] not without God, and where there is one, I say <to you>, I am with him. Raise the stone, and there thou wilt find me; split the wood: I am even there!"
ATTRIDGE - Oxyrhynchus
(30 + 77b) [Jesus said], "Where there are [three], they are without God, and where there is but [a single one], I say that I am with [him]. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there. Split the piece of wood, and I am there."
I have to pass on this one. The word god carries a lot of baggage and in this case it has added Gnostic baggage that I am not familiar with. Perhaps someone can share with us the Gnostic concept of "god".
 

JosephR

New member
I have to pass on this one. The word god carries a lot of baggage and in this case it has added Gnostic baggage that I am not familiar with. Perhaps someone can share with us the Gnostic concept of "god".

Ok, I only added the other three because of the "at first glance" look of it might be thought of as triune or trinity, and I wanted to stay away from that.

The end of the passage says something that I already believed before I have ever seen this, That God is in everything.Or that everything is in God, look under the stone and you will find me... Just Beautiful :)

But maybe freelight would expound on the God baggage for us.
 

JosephR

New member
Logia 31
Jesus said, “No prophet is accepted in his own village; no physician heals those who know him”.
 

JosephR

New member
We need to put the gloves on and take it out in the square circle.
I love Irishmen.

I dont use gloves,and I am German,,and you wouldnt last 10 seconds..

please take ur,, negativity elsewhere.. we are doing a study of the Lord Jesus Christ here... :)
 

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
The Gospel Of Thomas

I dont use gloves,and I am German,,and you wouldnt last 10 seconds..



please take ur,, negativity elsewhere.. we are doing a study of the Lord Jesus Christ here... :)


Id walk right thru you. In a heartbeat
You can tell by my avatar - I got skills son
 

JosephR

New member
Id walk right thru you. In a heartbeat
You can tell by my avatar - I got skills son

lol..I will however admit I love western style boxing,, it is best for striking..you wouldnt walk thru anything except out the hospital door after a long stay and recovery.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
The 'One' that always IS, no matter the reflections......

The 'One' that always IS, no matter the reflections......

Ok, I only added the other three because of the "at first glance" look of it might be thought of as triune or trinity, and I wanted to stay away from that.

The end of the passage says something that I already believed before I have ever seen this, That God is in everything.Or that everything is in God, look under the stone and you will find me... Just Beautiful :)

The classic phrase, "raise the stone, split the wood, there I Am" on the face and soul of it, denotes a pantheistic sense of Spirit, for the primal consciousness of 'God' is all-pervading, nothing existing outside of it. Jesus identity with 'God' so permeated his being, that he could with full realization say that he was One with the Spirit-Father, the All. In that pure God-consciousness, there was only 'that' (One Alone, the Infinite 'I Am' pervading all, transcending all).

While 'stone' and 'wood' may have various analogies, I see the pantheistic nuance as being more primal here, besides allusions towards the crucifixion, since the import of Jesus teachings was mostly in his teaching-word itself, while any other temporal coming or going is only a passing form or lesson for the soul to 'learn' along the way, in our ascension back towards the Pleroma.

But maybe freelight would expound on the God baggage for us.

:) - we might say up front, some baggage is more like 'garbage' compared to a pure spiritual insight or realization of Reality itself, which we may call 'God', 'Truth', 'Spirit', 'Light', 'Life', 'Source', 'Consciousness', etc. I still use the single quotation marks around 'God' (for nuance effect), to refer to what is classically and metaphysically defined as 'Deity', to include every possible definition, whether 'personal' and/or 'non-personal', since 'Deity includes all, and is all. Again for those not familiar with the terms I use, you'd have to follow my writings, and become familiar with the 'language', which includes many wonderful 'dialects', or whatever I may be drawing from the Universal Akasha (the Spirit, Aether, collective consciousness, etc.).

Infinity knows no end or bounds, hence knowledge or revelation is always 'progressive', even if the original-light behind all remains unchanging in essence, the relative-perception of mind receiving, interpreting, translating the 'light' undergoes apparent change or modifications where space and time impose their conditioning. Hence the 'light' at the heart of all, remains immutable, ....only the reflections undergo apparent modifications in consciousness, hence the illusion of time and limited dispensations.

Besides what commentary on saying #30 has been shared,....whether there are 3, 2 or 1....'God' is still there, since the indivisible One is omnipresent, no matter what numerical divisions or multiples exist in the world of 'form' or 'relations'. The original unit or the "1" ever remains the root-value, no matter how many additions you add to it, unto infinity.

A solitary one can contemplate 'The One' without the distraction of images or forms in his own meditation, yet still, 2, 3 or more can have the power of amplification if their will, intent and group-consciousness is in total harmony. The 'I Am' is always individually in one person, no matter how many individuals form a 'collective'. There is ever the power of "1" and the power of its multiplication, but the root-power originates from the original unity.

The "lift a stone, cleave wood" metaphor is also found in saying #77. Has anyone seen the movie 'Stigmata"? - it features the Church's suppression of these sayings of Jesus, hilighting saying #30/77, having an interesting 'conspiracy theory' plot, besides the 'stigmata' phenomena thrown in for special effects or shock value.


pj
 

JosephR

New member
I've seen you post this in a few places. Should we start calling you intoboys?

He is into somthing.. I think alot is humor... and easy to confuse with serious scripture dialog... anyways.. glad you are back..

let him not take away from anything of value... many things man see worth but knowledge I value..
 
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