Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?

Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?

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truthteller86

truthteller86

New member
shilohproject said:
The laws of the ancient Hebrew people should not dictate our criminal law today, in just the same way that we don't run around worrying about eating pork chops.:cool:
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I agree with you on the Amoral/Symbolic laws of Israel, which are not for the Body of Christ today, as in not wearing clothing of mixed fiber, which symbolized our pure covering in Christ...Hovever, I do not recall God prohibiting[i.e. "do not" law] homoality as being amoral &/or symbolic, thus it falls under moral law, specifically moral law governing our relationship with our fellow man(no humor intended). That being the case, unless you can somehow make prohibition of homoality symbolic of things to come [that which was fulfilled in Christ] or symbolic of Israels covenant of law, then it remains intact and God's punishment for this crime should be reinstated, along with all other sexual crimes.
 
shilohproject

shilohproject

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Army of One said:
But I assume that you would agree that (even if it's obviously silly for us to outlaw pork, shellfish, and clothing of mixed fabrics) at least some of the "ancient Hebrew" laws are still applicable today. For instance, those outlawing murder, rape, theft, perjury, etc. So instead of just rejecting them all, what standard would you use to determine which laws are still relevant?
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They are applicable only insofar as we read them to understand the moral framework of the ancient Hebrews. These codes are not the standard in Israel today, nor do the set a good model for us in the USA.

Our laws regarding murder, rape, theft, perjury, etc., as you so well observe, are indeed found in the ancient Hebrew codes. But they are neither limited to the Hebrews nor were they originated by them. Our sense of right and wrong should dictate our laws. And, while greatly influenced by our religious and cultural history, we must be responsible for consolidating many elements which often stand in tension.:cool:
 
shilohproject

shilohproject

New member
truthteller86 said:
I agree with you on the Amoral/Symbolic laws of Israel, which are not for the Body of Christ today, as in not wearing clothing of mixed fiber, which symbolized our pure covering in Christ...Hovever, I do not recall God prohibiting[i.e. "do not" law] homoality as being amoral &/or symbolic, thus it falls under moral law, specifically moral law governing our relationship with our fellow man(no humor intended). That being the case, unless you can somehow make prohibition of homoality symbolic of things to come [that which was fulfilled in Christ] or symbolic of Israels covenant of law, then it remains intact and God's punishment for this crime should be reinstated, along with all other sexual crimes.
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Can you give me a Biblical cite for this "symbolic law" rationalization? Not a large exposisions of someone's clever rational for picking which "Law" they like and which the don't, but an actual Bible verse which says: "These apply but those don't." Something like that.:cool:
 
Granite

Granite

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shilohproject said:
Can you give me a Biblical cite for this "symbolic law" rationalization? Not a large exposisions of someone's clever rational for picking which "Law" they like and which the don't, but an actual Bible verse which says: "These apply but those don't." Something like that.:cool:
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Cherrypicking is convenient but an exegetical outrage. Unfortunately it happens all the time.
 
lovemeorhateme

lovemeorhateme

Well-known member
They always say that it is in their understanding of the Bible that certain laws apply and certain ones don't. They can't actually cite a reference, as there isn't one.
 
Granite

Granite

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lovemeorhateme said:
They always say that it is in their understanding of the Bible that certain laws apply and certain ones don't. They can't actually cite a reference, as there isn't one.
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...which leaves us at square one because they can't even agree amongst themselves. Supposedly the same Holy Spirit is leading all of them to different conclusions.
 
lovemeorhateme

lovemeorhateme

Well-known member
Granite said:
...which leaves us at square one because they can't even agree amongst themselves. Supposedly the same Holy Spirit is leading all of them to different conclusions.
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Agreed. Most of the Christians I know and my parents brought me up around disagree with homosexuality, but would never advocate the death penalty for such a thing. The first time I ever heard anyone advocating the death penalty for homosexuality, other than spewing out of the mouths of radical fundamentalist muslim pyromaniacs, is on this site.

:think:
 
shilohproject

shilohproject

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Did you guys see the protests against homosexuality at the funeral services for troops killed in Iraq? "God killed them for serving a country that promotes homosexuality," or somethng like that. (Check out MSN.com; I saw a story there yesterday.)

Some folks are simply out of freakin' control on this thing! Bizarre! :kookoo:
 
shilohproject

shilohproject

New member
lovemeorhateme said:
The first time I ever heard anyone advocating the death penalty for homosexuality, other than spewing out of the mouths of radical fundamentalist muslim pyromaniacs, is on this site.

:think:
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If A=B, and B=C, then A=???
Anyboby here good at math?:cool:
 
shilohproject

shilohproject

New member
lovemeorhateme said:
They can't actually cite a reference, as there isn't one.
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Well, there's no reason for the Literalisticly Challenged to have to actually stay in the lines. It's only those of us who they disagree with who have to follow the(ir) :chuckle: rules.
 
Granite

Granite

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lovemeorhateme said:
Agreed. Most of the Christians I know and my parents brought me up around disagree with homosexuality, but would never advocate the death penalty for such a thing. The first time I ever heard anyone advocating the death penalty for homosexuality, other than spewing out of the mouths of radical fundamentalist muslim pyromaniacs, is on this site.

:think:
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Such thinking stems, I suppose, from a childish literalism and rotgut blood lust.
 
Army of One

Army of One

New member
It sounds like several of you are arguing against the position that the Bible contains specific commands on how we (USA or UK) should set up our Criminal Justice system. I wouldn't contest your position on that, because the Bible clearly doesn't contain such a command (i.e. the Bible never states, "and every nation that ever exists shall implement all these laws). It rather describes how Israel, as a theocracy (and later as a monarchy) was to conduct their Criminal Justice system.

But that does not mean that we cannot glean some valuable guidance and wisdom from the various laws in the Bible. For example, when we look at the 10 Commandments, we intuitively recognize that some of the laws are still relevant today. We don't argue that murder, theft, or perjury should be legal. But we do recognize that certain laws were intended only for Israel, such as the laws pertaining to the Sabbath (which was specifically labeled as a "sign" of Israel's special covenant with God). So it's not (or at least shouldn't be) a matter of "cherry picking" (or abitrarily selecting) which laws we think are still valid, but rather studying not only Scripture, but also science, history, sociology, etc. to detemine which laws would still be applicable today.

So the question is: Do we disregard laws pertaining to homosexuality simply because there are other laws contained in the O.T. that obviously don't apply today (such as dietary laws)? Obviously that wouldn't be a wise approach. But rather we should examine whether the laws pertaining to homosexuality were intended for Israel only (in other words, these laws were symbolic of their covenant with God), or are still relevant today, such as the laws against murder, kidnapping, rape, theft, etc. And I'm convinced that those laws are still relevant today, including the penalty that is prescribed for them (execution). And lest anyone should make an ill-informed accusation against me, I also believe that capital punishment should still apply to murder, kidnapping, rape, adultery, and at times perjury (when the perjury impacts someone that is on trial for a capital offense).

As an aside, one act that I wouldn't mind seeing criminalized and punished by death would be "False Prophecy", but I have yet to think through whether such a law would be feasible in a secular society (probably not). It would take care of such embarrassments as Benny Hinn and the like though.;)
 
Army of One

Army of One

New member
lovemeorhateme said:
The first time I ever heard anyone advocating the death penalty for homosexuality, other than spewing out of the mouths of radical fundamentalist muslim pyromaniacs, is on this site.

:think:
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I think this demonstrates your ignorance of not only Biblical history, but history in general. It wasn't very long ago that there was a general consensus that homosexuality should be a capital offense. If you want to argue against that mindset, by all means do so. But don't pretend that the idea is something novel, invented by TOL Christians and "radical fundamentalist muslim pyromaniacs" (and where did the "pyromaniacs" part come from anyway?).
 
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