PureX needs to apologize for his lie.

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

I understand. In fact, this is what I was trying to point out.

Also advocating murder on a website could be construed as a terrorist act, especially if targeted against an individual or a specific group and comes under the Patriot Act and other anti-terrorist laws.

 

[PureX]

Clearly, the first paragraph is not referring to Bob Enyart. And anyway, I wrote "IF you encourage ...."

This is silly. I have to get back to work.

 

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Yes he did.

Allow me to be more precise then: PureX never accused Bob of "encouraging": he made a general statement about encouragement of crime, then made a specific statement about Bob's stated opinions concerning homosexuality. You are the one who has interpreted the statements as an accusation of Bob "encouraging."

You have conflated two sentences to formulate your accusation.

 

[Poly]

Why do you want PureX to apologize so badly? Are you...holding a grudge perhaps? :chuckle:

Are you ever going to say anything enlightening or of value on this board or are we always to expect chidish drivel from you?

 

[beanieboy]

That's an awfully broad brush. Frankly, I don't think a single homosexual has been killed in the US under such circumstances: if I am correct, that also makes your statement somewhat dishonest.

I'm not saying that Christians go off and kill people.
I'm saying that those who aren't really that stable, and looking for a reason to kill, will listen to the radio, hear that gays deserve death, that God hates gays, that gays are a mennace to society, and that is all the excuse they need.

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

I'm not saying that Christians go off and kill people.
I'm saying that those who aren't really that stable, and looking for a reason to kill, will listen to the radio, hear that gays deserve death, that God hates gays, that gays are a mennace to society, and that is all the excuse they need.

under what cultural paradigm where the murderers of Matthew Shepphard operation under if not a single homosexual has not been murder under those circumstances?

 

[Poly]

Allow me to be more precise then: PureX never accused Bob of "encouraging": he made a general statement about encouragement of crime, then made a specific statement about Bob's stated opinions concerning homosexuality. You are the one who has interpreted the statements as an accusation of Bob "encouraging."

You have conflated two sentences to formulate your accusation.

No, I think you have that backwards. PureX purposely conflated the two sentences in order to imply that this is what Bob is encouraging. If not, why the need to even bring up anything about people who encourage others to commit a violent crime? What was the purpose if that had nothing to do with what PureX was talking about concerning Bob?

 

[intro2faith]

Are you ever going to say anything enlightening or of value on this board or are we always to expect chidish drivel from you?

Well, you didn't answer my question...

I guess I'm just pointing out that, as far as I can see, this thread is completely pointless and vengeful.

 

[Servo]

under what cultural paradigm where the murderers of Matthew Shepphard operation under if not a single homosexual has not been murder under those circumstances?

Enyart called for the death penalty for the MURDERERS of Matthew Sheppard BTW.

 

[Servo]

I guess I'm just pointing out that, as far as I can see, this thread is completely pointless and vengeful.

You are right, you better quit posting.

 

[beanieboy]

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/aah/radford_10_3.htm

Two brothers, Benjamin and James Williams, were charged with killing a gay couple July 1, 1999, in Happy Valley, a rural northern California community. Benjamin Williams told the Sacramento Bee that he killed the men because their homosexuality violated God's laws, and hoped his actions would incite more killings. "I'm not guilty of murder," he said. "I'm guilty of obeying the laws of the Creator." Investigators also found hate literature and evidence linking the brothers to fire bombings at three Sacramento area synagogues on June 18.

 

[Army of One]

under what cultural paradigm where the murderers of Matthew Shepphard operation under if not a single homosexual has not been murder under those circumstances?

They were not acting out a notion that, "the Bible says homos should be executed, so we are executing him on behalf of the encouragement of some religious leader". They were just two drunken idiots that committed a despicable crime.

 

[beanieboy]

Enyart called for the death penalty for the MURDERERS of Matthew Sheppard BTW.

Actually, didn't he say that he wanted to beat them to death himself in the same manner that they beat Shepard (despite the fact that Enyart would like to have Sheppard executed by authorities)?

 

[Justin (Wiccan)]

And now we see the crux of the issue.

No, I think you have that backwards. PureX purposely conflated the two sentences in order to imply that this is what Bob is encouraging. If not, why the need to even bring up anything about people who encourage others to commit a violent crime? What was the purpose if that had nothing to do with what PureX was talking about concerning Bob?

I emphasised the one word to point out what is called a "mind-reader's fallacy." Poly, do you have proof that this is what PureX purposely did? No ... you have a reasonable conjecture, but for actual evidentiary proof, you would have to read his mind to ascertain his motives. Since you cannot read his mind (and since your conjecture, though solid IMO, is not evidence of his thought processes), the argument fails.

Poly, I am not saying that PureX didn't mean it precisely as you believe. I'm not saying you're wrong. The only thing I'm saying is because you cannot prove that one emphasised word, the entire argument falls apart.

Justin

Edited to add: And since the argument falls apart, you and PureX can dance around this argument forever without reaching resolution. PureX may be innocent of your accusation, or he may be as guilty as you say, but as human beings, you and I cannot know the truth of the matter. According to your beliefs, that is solely in the hands of God.

J

 

[Crow]

Actually, didn't he say that he wanted to beat them to death himself in the same manner that they beat Shepard (despite the fact that Enyart would like to have Sheppard executed by authorities)?

Most people "want" to do things that they will not do because they know that it is not just to do so. I would like to boil all child molesters alive in oil, but it is not just for me to arbitrarily do so under God's laws or mans.

 

[Poly]

And now we see the crux of the issue.



I emphasised the one word to point out what is called a "mind-reader's fallacy." Poly, do you have proof that this is what PureX purposely did? No ... you have a reasonable conjecture, but for actual evidentiary proof, you would have to read his mind to ascertain his motives. Since you cannot read his mind (and since your conjecture, though solid IMO, is not evidence of his thought processes), the argument fails.

Oh please give me a break and spare me with your lame attempt at being PureX's lawyer.

If you want to be that dense, you go right ahead. You'd have to be an idiot not to see what he was trying to imply.

 

[Justin (Wiccan)]

I would like to boil all child molesters alive in oil....

Waste of oil. Rocks are cheaper.

 

[Servo]

Actually, didn't he say that he wanted to beat them to death himself in the same manner that they beat Shepard (despite the fact that Enyart would like to have Sheppard executed by authorities)?

If they were given the death penalty by the government, Bob would probably volunteer to administer the punishment, so what?

Enyart would like to have Sheppard executed by authorities AFTER homosexuality is considered a crime punishable by death by the government and AFTER Sheppard was tried and convicted of that crime. The laws would have to be changed first.

 

[beanieboy]

Most people "want" to do things that they will not do because they know that it is not just to do so. I would like to boil all child molesters alive in oil, but it is not just for me to arbitrarily do so under God's laws or mans.

Agreed.

Now, if you were to go on national radio, like Howard Stern, and talk about ways in which you would like to boil child molesters in oil, because you are reaching a big audience, one nut is going to think that it is a good idea, and that you condone it.
If the person is full of rage and anger already, believing that even God hates them (God who loves everyone), they will think that they are doing God a favor.

I wanted a special on Gay Killers.
Many of them talked of Sodom and Gomorrah, said that gay people deserved to die, etc.

 

[beanieboy]

If they were given the death penalty by the government, Bob would probably volunteer to administer the punishment, so what?
.

That's vigilantiism.

Bob doesn't work for the government, and has no authority.
He wants to kill them more for himself, or his ratings.
He found the men guilty even before the trial began.