Prison guards cook prisoner to death

[WizardofOz]

from merriam webster:

Origin of earn Middle English ernen, from Old English earnian; akin to Old High German arnōn to reap, Czech jeseň autumn

sow the wind, reap the whirlwind :idunno:

with this caveat - only if the action is undertaken with the understanding that it runs the risk of generating an unpredictable response - like my example of speeding while drunk

You're using a "middle / old English akin to old high German" origin of the definition? Why?

Either way I don't want to debate semantics. Let me ask you this; does a soldier deserve to be beheaded by Isis because he joined the military? Did he earn his beheading?

 

[ok doser]

Either way I don't want to debate semantics.

well, that's what it comes down to woo - i'm using a definition of deserve that makes no claim of justness or appropriateness

and you're using different one


i could answer your isis question, but unless we agreed on a definition it would be wasted effort

 

[elohiym]

i'm using a definition of deserve that makes no claim of justness or appropriateness

so you're making your own definition of a word?

have fun with that :wave2:

 

[elohiym]

So if they get cooked to death, would you say they deserved it?

using the definition "to earn by one's actions", yes

not that this definition says nothing about appropriateness or justness

If the man hadn't defecated on himself and the guards put him in that shower for no reason other than to kill him by scalding, would the man have deserved being scalded to death? Will you call that undeserved, and if so on what basis?

 

[ok doser]

If the man hadn't defecated on himself and the guards put him in that shower for no reason other than to kill him by scalding, would the man have deserved being scalded to death? Will you call that undeserved, and if so on what basis?

see my response to WoO

 

[elohiym]

see my response to WoO

Use your definition if you want, but answer.

If the man hadn't defecated on himself and the guards put him in that shower for no reason other than to kill him by scalding, would the man have deserved being scalded to death? Will you call that undeserved, and if so on what basis?

 

[WizardofOz]

well, that's what it comes down to woo - i'm using a definition of deserve that makes no claim of justness or appropriateness

If the action is not just or appropriate then it is unearned or undeserved.

 

[kiwimacahau]

No one deserves to die like that. He certainly did not 'earn' that death.

 

[journey]

The prison guards need to be charged with First Degree Murder, and let a jury decide their fate. I'm sure it won't include two hours of brutal torture. Those who knew about this or attempted to cover it up should also be appropriately charged.

 

[ok doser]

The prison guards need to be charged with First Degree Murder

yep :thumb:

, and let a jury decide their fate.

they should be executed, swiftly

 

[ok doser]

If the action is not just or appropriate then it is unearned or undeserved.

your question:

If I am hired to work for $20.00/an hour and work for 8 hours, what have I earned?

my response:

160 bucks. right?

minus a whole buncha deductions

and plus a whole buncha stuff:

sore back
tired muscles
eyestrain
raised blood pressure
etc

and if that job frustrates you to the point that you have a heart attack or a stroke?

guess what?

you earned it

is your heart attack or stroke "just or appropriate"?



and another illustration:

i could choose to drink a quart of jack Daniels and drive 140 mph on my way home tonight

chances are good that by choosing to sow recklessness i will reap consequences - they may be a loss of license, a loss of my intact car, a loss of physical integrity, a loss of life (mine or others) or any of a myriad of others


but whatever those consequences are, i will have earned them by my actions

is my quadriplegia "just or appropriate"?

 

[Christian Liberty]

The guy was a coke head and was eventually going to die due to his lifestyle. Sorry, but I don't get overly excited about these kind of stories.

On a related note: Are you by chance from Ron Paul's district in Texas? (please say yes).

I don't care if you like Ron Paul or not (I'm less and less excited about him... or anyone else who isn't a Christian theocrat to be frank) but to burn someone to death in a shower like that is a horrible thing to do to somebody.

Whether drugs should be banned by the State or not (they should not be) is not even the point here.

It would be more proper to say that his actions resulted in an unjust response from the prison guards. They may have been reacting, but it worse than an overreaction.



Do you think those prison guards now deserve to be cooked to death in a shower over the course of 2 hours?

I'd burn them at the stake or have them stoned (with rocks, not drugs ) I think dragging it out over 2 hours is too much, even for horriffic scumbags like this.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

I don't care if you like Ron Paul or not (I'm less and less excited about him... or anyone else who isn't a Christian theocrat to be frank) but to burn someone to death in a shower like that is a horrible thing to do to somebody.

Whether drugs should be banned by the State or not (they should not be) is not even the point here.

Welcome back Jr. The Libertarian movement has been under represented since you departed (i.e. I've had few to mock).

While I highly doubt that the corrections officers involved intended to kill the coke head, they will most likely be charged with manslaughter.

Had the 'victim' not been a junky, he wouldn't have been incarcerated and hence not defecated on his jail cell floor and refused to clean it up, and hence not been locked in the shower.

I'd burn them at the stake or have them stoned (with rocks, not drugs ) I think dragging it out over 2 hours is too much, even for horriffic scumbags like this.

Or even worse: listen to a 10 minute speech by Loonatarian Ron Paul.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Welcome back Jr. The Libertarian movement has been under represented since you departed (i.e. I've had few to mock).

Meh... I'm less libertarian than I used to be, but your arguments against it still suck

While I highly doubt that the corrections officers involved intended to kill the coke head, they will most likely be charged with manslaughter.

How awful do you have to be to not know that you're cooking someone to death? They should certainly be executed for murder. Were I in charge I would have them lit on fire in the public square. Dead serious.

Had the 'victim' not been a junky, he wouldn't have been incarcerated and hence not defecated on his jail cell floor and refused to clean it up, and hence not been locked in the shower.

Refusing to clean up crap is not a capital crime dude... and certainly not justification for an extra-judicial execution.

Or even worse: listen to a 10 minute speech by Loonatarian Ron Paul.

Meh... no... though a 10 minute speech by you might do it.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Welcome back Jr. The Libertarian movement has been under represented since you departed (i.e. I've had few to mock).

Meh... I'm less libertarian than I used to be, but your arguments against it still suck

That's right, you're following the theonomist cult the last time I heard. How they tie in with Libertarianism is beyond me.


Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
While I highly doubt that the corrections officers involved intended to kill the coke head, they will most likely be charged with manslaughter.

How awful do you have to be to not know that you're cooking someone to death? They should certainly be executed for murder.

I'm not defending what the corrections officers did, I just don't get overly excited when junkies die (they're eventually going to be murdered by another junky, overdose, or die from the numerous things that causes the life of a junky to end way before his or her time),

Were I in charge I would have them lit on fire in the public square. Dead serious.

You would do that to anyone in authority (Jr., like all Libertarians, hates authority, not just those who commit manslaughter. Start up a conversation with Jr. about the military and see what I mean).

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Had the 'victim' not been a junky, he wouldn't have been incarcerated and hence not defecated on his jail cell floor and refused to clean it up, and hence not been locked in the shower.

Refusing to clean up crap is not a capital crime dude... and certainly not justification for an extra-judicial execution.

Thanks for letting me know Jr., you saved me time looking that bit of obvious information up in the RCW.

Now if you Libertarians (or whatever cult you belong to today that wants recreational drugs legalized) would only get excited over the cause of these atrocities:

Oregon man on meth binge kills elderly father in house fire: police
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ly-father-meth-binge-police-article-1.2052107

Now be a good little Libertarian and tell us how if drugs were legal, junkies wouldn't burn their father to death...

 

[Christian Liberty]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Welcome back Jr. The Libertarian movement has been under represented since you departed (i.e. I've had few to mock).



That's right, you're following the theonomist cult the last time I heard. How they tie in with Libertarianism is beyond me.

It doesn't

More seriously sometimes they work together because both understand that government is way too big.

I'm not defending what the corrections officers did, I just don't get overly excited when junkies die (they're eventually going to be murdered by another junky, overdose, or die from the numerous things that causes the life of a junky to end way before his or her time),

You should be horrified that agents of your own government would do something like this.

You would do that to anyone in authority (Jr., like all Libertarians, hates authority, not just those who commit manslaughter. Start up a conversation with Jr. about the military and see what I mean).

No, I would not. I do think that people should not sign up for the military of a godless nation but that is different than what is going on here, which is not defendable by any standard whatsoever.

Thanks for letting me know Jr., you saved me time looking that bit of obvious information up in the RCW.

Now if you Libertarians (or whatever cult you belong to today that wants recreational drugs legalized) would only get excited over the cause of these atrocities:

Oregon man on meth binge kills elderly father in house fire: police
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ly-father-meth-binge-police-article-1.2052107

Now be a good little Libertarian and tell us how if drugs were legal, junkies wouldn't burn their father to death...

Everybody knows people that kill while high are a problem though. The morality of that isn't disputed. That people are actually DEFENDING government agents (read: those who AREN'T supposed to be criminals) killing people by scalding shower water is horiffic.

 

[glorydaz]

If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. You dish out immense dollops of slime but can't take the return missives.

The other guy dishes out "slime" and you dish out "missives". :rotfl:

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior

That's right, you're following the theonomist cult the last time I heard. How they tie in with Libertarianism is beyond me.

It doesn't

More seriously sometimes they work together because both understand that government is way too big.

Are I recall, from reading the writings of nutcase Joel McDurmon, if the Bible doesn't specifically talk about criminalizing a certain behavior (recreational drug use, pornography, etc.), then it shouldn't be criminalized (they also believe in Jewish and Muslim laws when it comes to punishment of a certain crime, i.e. stoning an adulterer).

Libertarians on the other hand believe that everyone is sovereign over their own body, therefore government can't punish people from engaging in homosexuality, adultery, pornography, recreational drug use, etc.

Don't start on the 'victimless crime' rant, because if there weren't victims, it wouldn't be a crime.


Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
I'm not defending what the corrections officers did, I just don't get overly excited when junkies die (they're eventually going to be murdered by another junky, overdose, or die from the numerous things that causes the life of a junky to end way before his or her time),

You should be horrified that agents of your own government would do something like this.

Unless you're writing this from a federal pen where you're doing time for tax evasion, it's your government as well.

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
You would do that to anyone in authority (Jr., like all Libertarians, hates authority, not just those who commit manslaughter. Start up a conversation with Jr. about the military and see what I mean).

No, I would not. I do think that people should not sign up for the military of a godless nation but that is different than what is going on here, which is not defendable by any standard whatsoever.

Nope, none whatsoever, and they'll be prosecuted because of it (by that government that you hate so much).

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Thanks for letting me know Jr., you saved me time looking that bit of obvious information up in the RCW.

Now if you Libertarians (or whatever cult you belong to today that wants recreational drugs legalized) would only get excited over the cause of these atrocities:

Oregon man on meth binge kills elderly father in house fire: police
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...icle-1.2052107

Now be a good little Libertarian and tell us how if drugs were legal, junkies wouldn't burn their father to death...

Everybody knows people that kill while high are a problem though. The morality of that isn't disputed. That people are actually DEFENDING government agents (read: those who AREN'T supposed to be criminals) killing people by scalding shower water is horiffic.

Now take some of that indignation and put it towards the policies that Libertarians and theonomists want made (the legalization of recreational drugs, which got this man put away to begin with).

 

[Arthur Brain]

That's what society and the justice system is for. We collectively control the severity of the punishment.



That's it right there. They have earned a prison sentence. That is what Rainey earned. He didn't earn being cooked alive in a boiling shower.



If I am hired to work for $20.00/an hour and work for 8 hours, what have I earned?

"Earn" is defined by an equitable return. You seem to think any extreme positive or negative outcome can be earned by one's action.

Just to return to some sanity on this...

:thumb:

 

[Crucible]

People do varying degrees of weird things incarcerated. Throwing one's feces around is not unheard of or is, unfortunately, even that uncommon.

An angry person in a prison can resort to such antics. Prison guards are made aware of these things in their training- they know what they signed up for.
And the same can be said for police officers; they are all without excuse when they do crooked things.