People are Not Basically Good, They're Basically Like the Beatles

[Jukia]

Yes, it is.

Do you deny that an abortion, even and early-term abortion, kills a living human being?

Yes

 

[Turbo]

Yes

Life begins at fertilization, Jukia.

Learn some science.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Put aside the comparison to Republicans for a moment. What is it about the Democratic platform that you support that overshadows their "pro-choice" stance? What specifically do you like about Hillary Clinton that outweighs her support for child-killing?

Both parties support abortion, they are no different at all on that issue. The only difference is that the republicans lie about their commetment to changing the law. I support a planned and quick withdraw from Iraq, a withdraw that leaves the Iraqi people incharge. I support public education. I support programs that aid the poor and the widows and those that have the least because God gave government the sword of judgement, a responsability that includes helping the people that make up the society over which the government rules. I support afrordable health care for all and that does not mean I support socialized medicine. In general, the liberal view of looking out for the people around you is much more in line with the teachings of Jesus than the republican view of getting and keeping wealth. All the wealth that I have is Gods, not mine. I f ceaser takes his share and part of what he takes helps those in need, Glory be to God!

But what I'm asking is, why do you therefore support Democrats, who openly support child-killing? Where is the sense in that?

What is sad about this whole abortion debate is that the religious right have so warpped the arguments that the pro life and pro choice camps can no longer speak about the real issue. Abortion is not the problem, it is a symptom of the problem. Christian wemen don't have abortions becuase they know who Jesus is and they have great hope in Him. They know that God is with them and they can face whatever is comming there way.

"Christians" go to clinics and yell at the top of there lungs you'll burn in hell if you kill you baby. Boy, there is a message of hope if I ever heard one. :kookoo: Why don't these "christians" go to those clinics and say God loves you. He sent me to take care of you. Come home with me and I will pay for you medical bills until you have the baby. Then you can keep the baby and I'll help you then too or you can put it up for adoption. Opps. Forgot that the republicans believe that any money they get is God's blessing and they are are entitled to keep it. They more they have, the more they are blessed.

CabinetMaker, you should repent of your support for politicians who advocate child-killing.

So should you. You support politicians who claim to opose abortion and yet they do nothing to stop it.

Part of the reason I support Hillary is that she doesn't support a cut and run policy for withdrawing from Iraq. I don't know how to get out of Iraq but I know just pulling out is not a good idea. She may at least look for a tactic to get us out and leave Iraq able to stand on its own.

Bottom line, the liberal agenda is more closelyu aligned with Jesus than a conservative agenda. That does not mean I support socialist polices, but I do support programs that help people. I would rather my government took my money to hel people her at home than to prosicute a war for... what?

 

[Servo]

Both parties support abortion, they are no different at all on that issue. The only difference is that the republicans lie about their commetment to changing the law.

And the dems support abortion on demand. Why would you support such a party?

"Christians" go to clinics and yell at the top of there lungs you'll burn in hell if you kill you baby. Boy, there is a message of hope if I ever heard one. :kookoo:

I have never heard that. How much time have you spent in front of a clinic?

Why don't these "christians" go to those clinics and say God loves you. He sent me to take care of you. Come home with me and I will pay for you medical bills until you have the baby. Then you can keep the baby and I'll help you then too or you can put it up for adoption.

Are you willing to do that? Have you?

How do you know what Christians have done? Have you heard of Christians like Ken and Jo Scott? They live in your area; maybe you can go help them out at 20th and Vine.

 

[CabinetMaker]

And the dems support abortion on demand. Why would you support such a party?

Because life is far more than one issue. Certain groups of "christians" are funny that way. They will do everything they can to make sure a child is born. But if that child is born into a life where he ultiamtly kills somebody those same "christians" will do everything they can to but that person to death. It isa double standard that I cannot support from the Bible. I saw the BR between Theo and Turbo and I think Theo had the better and more Biblically correct position.

How do you know what Christians have done? Have you heard of Christians like Ken and Jo Scott? They live in your area; maybe you can go help them out at 20th and Vine.

My wife's Ob-Gyn is a doctor that is frequently protested. When she became pregnant we went to him. He tracked her pregnancy and when it became obvious that her preganancy was becomming a high risk pregnancy the first thing he did was refer us to a specialist in high-risk pregnancy. He never once said that her life was in danger and that an abortioin must be done for her health. He made sure that he sent us to the right doctor and we are blessed with two wonderful daughters. He did this for us twice.

The point is, Christ ate dinner with tax collectors, He did not punish them. Jesus wants that doctor to come to faith in Him as much as He wants you and I to come to Him. We cannot be good witnesses for Christ if were are advocating the killing of doctors.

 

[Jukia]

Life begins at fertilization, Jukia.

Learn some science.

That was not the question you posed. You asked whether an abortion killed a living human being. Sort of depends on how you define a "living human being".

 

[One Eyed Jack]

Why?

Maybe he needs help raising his kids? It takes a village, you know...

 

[Johnny]

Life begins at fertilization, Jukia.

Learn some science.

The sperm and egg were just as alive, Turbo. The argument is not over whether or not life was destroyed. Live cells are destroyed everytime a man ejaculates (by the millions) and every month for a woman. The objection Jukia raised is not regarding the destruction of life, rather it was in reference to the destruction of a "living human being". Science cannot define when human life begins--that is an arbitrary social distinction. Your call for Jukia to "learn some science" was thus rather misplaced.

 

[Granite]

Once again this is a life versus personhood kind of discussion.

 

[Servo]

Because life is far more than one issue. Certain groups of "christians" are funny that way. They will do everything they can to make sure a child is born. But if that child is born into a life where he ultiamtly kills somebody those same "christians" will do everything they can to but that person to death. It isa double standard that I cannot support from the Bible. I saw the BR between Theo and Turbo and I think Theo had the better and more Biblically correct position.

If you give support to a party that supports women killing their unborn babies on a whim then does it really matter what the parties’ position is on other issues? The Republicans compromise on “you shall not murder” but the dems outright supports it. It is like saying “I don’t agree with the Nazis view on killing Jews, but they are better than that other party so I think I will vote for them.” You can not defend your position Biblically.

My wife's Ob-Gyn is a doctor that is frequently protested. When she became pregnant we went to him. He tracked her pregnancy and when it became obvious that her preganancy was becomming a high risk pregnancy the first thing he did was refer us to a specialist in high-risk pregnancy. He never once said that her life was in danger and that an abortioin must be done for her health. He made sure that he sent us to the right doctor and we are blessed with two wonderful daughters. He did this for us twice.

The point is, Christ ate dinner with tax collectors, He did not punish them. Jesus wants that doctor to come to faith in Him as much as He wants you and I to come to Him. We cannot be good witnesses for Christ if were are advocating the killing of doctors.

You wife’s doctor performs abortions?

Usually the doc suggests that you kill the baby.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30942&highlight=OBGYN

Who is advocating the killing of doctors?

 

[Jukia]

The fundy's connection between the Holocaust and abortion is more of the religious right's big lie. See Orwell.

 

[Servo]

Once again this is a life versus personhood kind of discussion.

And once again you are stating to us that you are not opposed to the killing of that unique "life'?

 

[Granite]

And once again you are stating to us that you are not opposed to the killing of that unique "life'?

Once again, Shimei, my position on abortion is clear and the last person around here I need to answer to is you.

Have a nice day.

 

[CabinetMaker]

If you give support to a party that supports women killing their unborn babies on a whim then does it really matter what the parties’ position is on other issues? The Republicans compromise on “you shall not murder” but the dems outright supports it. It is like saying “I don’t agree with the Nazis view on killing Jews, but they are better than that other party so I think I will vote for them.” You can not defend your position Biblically.

Crazy is doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result. The republicans have controlled the house and senate for about 12 years. They have produced one bill under the Clinton administration designed more to produce a campaign issue than to stop partial birth abortion. They knew Clinton would veto the bill and they would have an issue to use against democrats.

It worked. We got a republican president. They have produced and signed a law banning partial birth abourtioin but have made no move to enforce it. They waited till the makeup of the court changed and will now test that law. If republicans are so commited to stopping abortion why did they only stop one procedure?

Abortion is not the only issue I look at when voting. I know the party positions. The democrats openly support it. The republicans publically condemn it but privatly support it as it rallies voters, single issue voters like you, to there camp. Since neither party has any interest in stopping abortion, I look at the other important issues of the day and see which party has a platform more in line with Christs' teachings.

It is far from a perfect solution. You have siezed on one issue that determines much of your politics based on your faith. My faith has led me to look at different issues when deciding how to vote.

 

[Servo]

Crazy is doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result. The republicans have controlled the house and senate for about 12 years. They have produced one bill under the Clinton administration designed more to produce a campaign issue than to stop partial birth abortion. They knew Clinton would veto the bill and they would have an issue to use against democrats.

It worked. We got a republican president. They have produced and signed a law banning partial birth abourtioin but have made no move to enforce it. They waited till the makeup of the court changed and will now test that law. If republicans are so commited to stopping abortion why did they only stop one procedure?

Abortion is not the only issue I look at when voting. I know the party positions. The democrats openly support it. The republicans publically condemn it but privatly support it as it rallies voters, single issue voters like you, to there camp. Since neither party has any interest in stopping abortion, I look at the other important issues of the day and see which party has a platform more in line with Christs' teachings.

It is far from a perfect solution. You have siezed on one issue that determines much of your politics based on your faith. My faith has led me to look at different issues when deciding how to vote.

I am not defending the republicans. They are basically the same as the dumbocrats. I am asking why you would vote for a party that is MORE evil than the evil party that is already in control.

If we can not even defend the rights of the unborn, the most innocent among us and our future, then there is a huge problem. Murdering people is a much bigger issue than tax credits and spending bills.

Also, is your wife’s OBGYN really an abortion doctor?

 

[On Fire]

People are Not Basically Good, They're Basically Like the Beatles

I believe that Atheists are Not Basically Good, They're Basically Like the Monkees.

 

[CabinetMaker]

I am not defending the republicans. They are basically the same as the dumbocrats. I am asking why you would vote for a party that is MORE evil than the evil party that is already in control.

Because I see the republicans as more evil than democrats on the abortion issue. The Democrats are honest enough to say they support it. The republicans lie, they say they appose it but ni fact support it. The lie compounds the evil.

Also, is your wife’s OBGYN really an abortion doctor?

He would be had we not been forced to change insurance. He is not an abortion doctor. He is an ObGyn who also does abortions. The doctor in Boulder, as I understand it, is an abortion doctor as he derives his primary income from abortions. Our old doctor did not. Hair splitting, I know, but true none the less. I have always felt the need to appologize to him and his familly for the way they are treated in their home by "christians". The ends do not justify the means.

 

[Servo]

Because I see the republicans as more evil than democrats on the abortion issue. The Democrats are honest enough to say they support it. The republicans lie, they say they appose it but ni fact support it. The lie compounds the evil.

I don’t think the Republicans support abortion; they just don’t do anything to stop it. They also use it to trick Christians into voting for them. So is that worse than outright “supporting a woman’s right” to murder?

He would be had we not been forced to change insurance. He is not an abortion doctor. He is an ObGyn who also does abortions. The doctor in Boulder, as I understand it, is an abortion doctor as he derives his primary income from abortions. Our old doctor did not. Hair splitting, I know, but true none the less. I have always felt the need to appologize to him and his familly for the way they are treated in their home by "christians". The ends do not justify the means.

He is a murderer. I am really shocked that you would do business with such a man! You need to repent for supporting him and find a legit doctor that does not kill babies for money!

You actually feel the need to apologies to him because Christians are outside of his office trying to prevent the murder of innocent babies? Unbelievable! Why is your world view so messed up???

Seriously, think it though and get on the “right” side.

 

[CabinetMaker]

I don’t think the Republicans support abortion; they just don’t do anything to stop it. They also use it to trick Christians into voting for them. So is that worse than outright “supporting a woman’s right” to murder?

You got it! They trick you into supporting a woman's right to murder.

He is a murderer. I am really shocked that you would do business with such a man! You need to repent for supporting him and find a legit doctor that does not kill babies for money!

You actually feel the need to apologies to him because Christians are outside of his office trying to prevent the murder of innocent babies? Unbelievable! Why is your world view so messed up???

Seriously, think it though and get on the “right” side.

The right side is to introduce this Doctor to Christ. Chrsits' love will stop the Doctor from doing any more abortions.

If the protestors were outside his office that would be fine. The fact that the protestors do it at his home making in front of his wife and (young) children is despicable. Picketing his house is a poor witness for Christ. Jesus would sit down to dinner with him and save him. "Christians" are content to curse him and condemn him to hell without ever talking to him.

I comend you an your stance and passion resisting abortion. I do not support abortion but it is not the only issue I look at whan deciding how to vote. Care for the elderly and severly handicapped is as important. Education is as important. Care for widows and orphans is as important.

Getting people into world is one thing. Careing for them after they are here is what Jesus directed us to do. Repeatedly.

Since both parties have effectivly the same stance on abortion I choose who to vote for based on all the teachings of Jesus.

 

[Turbo]

CabinetMaker, you should repent of your support for politicians who advocate child-killing.

So should you.

Republicans... don’t do anything to stop [abortion]. They also use it to trick Christians into voting for them.
You got it! They trick you into supporting a woman's right to murder.

CabinetMaker, why do you assume that Shimei and I vote Republican?

I don't need to repent of my support for phony "pro-life" Republicans because I already did six years ago when I learned what was going on.

You, on the otherhand, know full well that Democrats advocate murder yet you support them anyway. And you do business with a doctor who is also a hitman, slaughtering children for money. You sympathize with him while condemning the heroes who are opposing him. If you had lived in a different time, perhaps you would have apologized to Pharaoh the child-killer for the Hebrew midwives who lied to him to save the babies they delivered, calling them a "bad witness."


Do you believe that abortion should be illegal?

The fact that the protestors do it at his home making in front of his wife and (young) children is despicable.

What about the (even younger) children their dad murders for pay? That's what's really despicable. If only he would stop slaughtering babies, the protesters would go away.

Those protesters help to deter others from becoming abortionists. Abortion is a lucrative industry, but even wicked medical students do not want to choose a field that will lead to protesters in front of their lawns.


You're off-base on your views regarding the government's role in caring for widows, the poor, etc., but for now all of that takes a back seat to your support for murderers.