Paul: "The Just (Justified) Shall Live By Faith" and not by rules, laws or religion

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Robert Pate

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marhig said:
The laws should be in our hearts and in our minds Robert, the Spirit won't be guiding us against Gods law. Do you believe that the ten commandments are abolished?
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Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation.

Anything in the Bible that tells you to do something or not to do something is law.

Christians are not under laws or rules. To be under the law is a curse, Galatians 3:10.
 
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Robert Pate

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marhig said:
I read those scriptures, I don't see them to mean what you say.

So tell me Robert, you believe Paul, what does he mean when he says do we make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law,

And here's the scripture

Romans 3

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

And what does Paul mean when he says that the laws are written in our hearts and in our minds?
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We establish the law by being found "In Christ". God sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ".
 
marhig

marhig

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Robert Pate said:
Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation.

Anything in the Bible that tells you to do something or not to do something is law.

Christians are not under laws or rules. To be under the law is a curse, Galatians 3:10.
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We are under rules, the Spirit should be guiding us daily in what to do and what not to do.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Robert Pate said:
The law has been abolished only for the Christian. Those that are not Christians will be judged by it and condemned.
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The law with the purification works were abolished. Jesus also changed other commands because he was fulfilling them.

Jesus came and taught a new covenant with new guidelines and rules.

The old law is no more for anyone. You can't even get your own story straight.
 
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Robert Pate

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God's Truth said:
The law with the purification works were abolished. Jesus also changed other commands because he was fulfilling them.

Jesus came and taught a new covenant with new guidelines and rules.

The old law is no more for anyone. You can't even get your own story straight.
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You don't believe Paul. Jesus did not introduce new guidelines. Jesus elevated the law of Moses and spiritualized it. So that now even your thoughts and the intent of your heart are judged by the law, Hebrews 4:12. Good luck with that, hypocrite.
 
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clefty

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marhig said:
What?? I mean completely abolish, no the law isn't completely abolished. Jesus lived by the law and fulfilled it, but he didn't abolish the law for everyone else. Those who walk in the Spirit and love God and their neighbour fulfill the law through love and faith.

Many follow the laws by the letter, but without love and faith it's nothing.
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Sigh...I need to be more obvious with my sarcastic metaphors...

Of course I dont destroy a recipe when I fulfill its instructions...

Just like I dont abolish a law in math by fulfilling an equation...

Of course you cant change an ingredient/amount/process in the recipe and expect the same result...

Of course you cant change a process in the equation and come up with the same answer...

The law you keep/fulfill indicates much about you...

Drive on the left...British

Drive on the right...the right way...lol
 
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clefty

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Robert Pate said:
You don't believe Paul. Jesus did not introduce new guidelines. Jesus elevated the law of Moses and spiritualized it. So that now even your thoughts and the intent of your heart are judged by the law, Hebrews 4:12. Good luck with that, hypocrite.
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Well well well...there is something...

Yes indeed He did NOT abolish it by amplified it...it reveals even your inner man...and guess what you can keep it...IN HIM...duh...we want to for what He did for us...
 
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clefty

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God's Truth said:
The law with the purification works were abolished. Jesus also changed other commands because he was fulfilling them.

Jesus came and taught a new covenant with new guidelines and rules.

The old law is no more for anyone. You can't even get your own story straight.
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How is a way to purify yourself a law held against you? LOL

What was abolished was the ordinance, ordnance coming to kill you...your debt of eternal death...

That New Covenant was taught and exemplified WHILE HE WAS ALIVE...and christening it to a room full of jews not a gentile among them...His shed blood signed that New Covenant and His death as testator to it SEALED IT

His followers still hurried to prepare Him for burial get Him off the tree before morning(ALSO OT)...AND KEEP THE SABBATH as per the commandment...and also the passover...Paul demonstrated and instructed to keep Sabbaths and the feast with new unleavened bread

and Peter the dieatary law...

If the Law could be changed why not change it before He had to be sacrificed?

Not “My will” He said or your will...but HIS WILL be done...boom...HIS LAW IS ETERNAL
 
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clefty

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Robert Pate said:
The law has been abolished only for the Christian. Those that are not Christians will be judged by it and condemned.
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He will judge if you are IN CHRIST...and if so the ordnance is abolished...

ALL HAVE SINNED and are condemned...yet all are saved if they have faith and obey
 
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clefty

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marhig said:
The laws should be in our hearts and in our minds Robert, the Spirit won't be guiding us against Gods law. Do you believe that the ten commandments are abolished?
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He means exactly that...that the Spirit would NOT have us follow an “abolished” law...for him because one driver kept the traffic laws perfectly there are no more traffic laws...NOT we let Him drive us in keeping the still existing traffic laws...
 
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clefty

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Robert Pate said:
Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation.

Anything in the Bible that tells you to do something or not to do something is law.

Christians are not under laws or rules. To be under the law is a curse, Galatians 3:10.
Click to expand...

You keep saying...and yet He was specific DONT THINK I came to abolish the law...heaven and earth will PASS AWAY before one jot or tittle is CHANGED let alone destroyed...

Have heaven and earth passed away? There it remains binding...as its in the Bible NT even telling you to do something...again DONT THINK I have come to abolish the Law...
 
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clefty

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marhig said:
How?

And do you believe that the ten commandments are abolished?
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Adding or subtracting anything from the Word gets one’s name removed from the book of life...

Curse in the NT...same as the OT

What are the words? “Here are they that KEEP the commandments of Yah and the faith OF His Son Yahshua”
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
marhig said:
I read those scriptures, I don't see them to mean what you say.

So tell me Robert, you believe Paul, what does he mean when he says do we make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law,

And here's the scripture

Romans 3

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Click to expand...

The purpose of the law is to show men their sin and lead them to Christ. The purpose of the law is established when we have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. The Law has served it's purpose in all who have FAITH. That's what the verse means.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.​

And what does Paul mean when he says that the laws are written in our hearts and in our minds?
Click to expand...

What verse are you talking about?
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
clefty said:
You keep saying...and yet He was specific DONT THINK I came to abolish the law...heaven and earth will PASS AWAY before one jot or tittle is CHANGED let alone destroyed...

Have heaven and earth passed away? There it remains binding...as its in the Bible NT even telling you to do something...again DONT THINK I have come to abolish the Law...
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The law was made for sinners.....unbelievers. It remains for the purpose it was given - to find men guilty.


Christ is the end of the the law for those who believe. Romans 10:4
 
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clefty

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glorydaz said:
The law was made for sinners.....unbelievers. It remains for the purpose it was given - to find men guilty.


Christ is the end of the the law for those who believe. Romans 10:4
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Paul didnt mean He was a train conductor “OK Christ is the end of the law line! Everybody off!”

The greek telios is better understood as the goal...”Christ is the goal of the Law”

Is why Paul is clear the the Laws ARE a shadow...the substance of which is the body of Christ (the obedient church which at that time was only the church of the wilderness and not what it has Frankensteined into)
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Robert Pate said:
You don't believe Paul. Jesus did not introduce new guidelines. Jesus elevated the law of Moses and spiritualized it. So that now even your thoughts and the intent of your heart are judged by the law, Hebrews 4:12. Good luck with that, hypocrite.
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You contradicted yourself.
 
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