Paul: "The Just (Justified) Shall Live By Faith" and not by rules, laws or religion

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clefty

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You have it backwards. The law caused sin. Everything was just fine in the garden until God said, "Don't eat of the tree".

Juvenile...blaming gravity for tripping and then making you fall...

You began to fall AFTER you tripped...

and gravity does much more than “make me fall”...

BTW- we were created for a reason much bigger than to be here “just fine”...that Adam was given a co-Creator job to do should clue you in...
 

clefty

New member
You have it backwards. The law caused sin. Everything was just fine in the garden until God said, "Don't eat of the tree".


Again...so it’s His fault? LOL...

He should have just kept His big mouth shut about rules and stuff...I mean the garden He provided and placed us in was perfect before He said that...

Not even Adam and Even hinted at that...although they rejected personal responsibility...
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Again...so it’s His fault? LOL...

He should have just kept His big mouth shut about rules and stuff...I mean the garden He provided and placed us in was perfect before He said that...

Not even Adam and Even hinted at that...although they rejected personal responsibility...


Adam and Eve were being tested. They failed, just like you fail.
 

clefty

New member
Adam and Eve were being tested. They failed, just like you fail.

Everything was fine in the Garden until...until the Creator messed it up...

So how else would we have found out the Grace Mercy Saving Love?

Freedom is exactly the test...what would you do? Who and how do you worship?

It’s amazing so many loved Him before He sacrificed His Son...but now with that proof of Love and knowing what is best for us who would NOT want to follow Him His Way...if just to know Him better...
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Everything was fine in the Garden until...until the Creator messed it up...

So how else would we have found out the Grace Mercy Saving Love?

Freedom is exactly the test...what would you do? Who and how do you worship?

It’s amazing so many loved Him before He sacrificed His Son...but now with that proof of Love and knowing what is best for us who would NOT want to follow Him His Way...if just to know Him better...


His way is to live by the Spirit. If you live by the law you will be judged by the law and condemned by the law. "Do you not hear the law?" Galatians 4:21.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Ok, so why do you believe that the law causes us to sin by reading those verses? In what way do you believe that those verses mean that? Thanks

Those verses plainly tells us that the law causes us to sin.

"But sin, taking occasion by the commandment wrought in me all manner of concupiscence (lust) For without the law sin was dead" Romans 7:8.

We are born into the world as sinners. The law does not correct our fallen condition. It makes it worse.
 

clefty

New member
His way is to live by the Spirit. If you live by the law you will be judged by the law and condemned by the law. "Do you not hear the law?" Galatians 4:21.

To live by the Spirit is to keep the Law...is how people tell you aint no counterfeit...even the dullest understand a guide does not walk contrary to the map...especially if He drew it...

To live the faith of Him His Faith...just like...not to be saved but because we already were...our gratitude and desire to obey reveals the level of that understanding...to be less like what we were and more like Him Who saved/saves us
 

Robert Pate

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Banned
To live by the Spirit is to keep the Law...is how people tell you aint no counterfeit...even the dullest understand a guide does not walk contrary to the map...especially if He drew it...

To live the faith of Him His Faith...just like...not to be saved but because we already were...our gratitude and desire to obey reveals the level of that understanding...to be less like what we were and more like Him Who saved/saves us

I don't think that you will ever understand what it means to live by faith and the Spirit.

You are not willing to believe that Jesus in your name and on your behalf fulfilled the law and abolished it. Even though the scriptures teach it.
 

clefty

New member
I don't think that you will ever understand what it means to live by faith and the Spirit.
sure I do...means obeying and baring fruits revealing what I obey to worship Who saved me...

You are not willing to believe that Jesus in your name and on your behalf fulfilled the law and abolished it. Even though the scriptures teach it.

Nope what was abolished was the ordnance headed to my head...I be covered...passed over again...HalleluYah...just as His faithful obedient were of old...
 

marhig

Well-known member
I don't think that you will ever understand what it means to live by faith and the Spirit.

You are not willing to believe that Jesus in your name and on your behalf fulfilled the law and abolished it. Even though the scriptures teach it.
Where does it say in the Bible that Jesus abolished the law?

To fulfil doesn't mean to abolish.
 

marhig

Well-known member
Those verses plainly tells us that the law causes us to sin.

"But sin, taking occasion by the commandment wrought in me all manner of concupiscence (lust) For without the law sin was dead" Romans 7:8.

We are born into the world as sinners. The law does not correct our fallen condition. It makes it worse.

Those verses plainly tells us that the law causes us to sin.

"But sin, taking occasion by the commandment wrought in me all manner of concupiscence (lust) For without the law sin was dead" Romans 7:8.

We are born into the world as sinners. The law does not correct our fallen condition. It makes it worse.

Robert, without the law sin was dead, because without the law, people don't know sin, death reigned from Adam to Moses, then came the law, you can't be guilty of something without there being a law, so when God gave the laws, and they were broken, then came guilt. The law shows us our sins and convicts us. And the law can only correct us if we abide by it. The law was brought in to show us sin, and if we live by it, we put our flesh to death. Which is good to do before God. But the law doesn't bring life, that comes by the Spirit through Christ Jesus.

He lived out the laws perfectly, he fulfilled it and showed us how to live before God and now we have no excuse. We've now been shown the way. And now we don't live by the letter of the law, but through the Spirit we obey the laws written on our hearts and in our minds by the Holy Spirit, and love fulfils the law, if we love others then we won't hurt or harm them, and we will be obeying God through love as the spirit guides and teaches us in the truth and so we will be obeying the law.

We don't abolish the law, we establish the law as Paul said, I thought you believe Paul, why would Paul say we establish the law of we are to abolish it?

The commandments of God will never be abolished, Jesus just showed us the truth and separated God's true way from man's add on's and by living it out and teaching it to us, we now have a new and living way to follow. If we follow him, and have true faith, then we will live in the way he taught us to live, and that starts by living by the will of God if we truly love him.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Robert, without the law sin was dead, because without the law, people don't know sin, death reigned from Adam to Moses, then came the law, you can't be guilty of something without there being a law, so when God gave the laws, and they were broken, then came guilt. The law shows us our sins and convicts us. And the law can only correct us if we abide by it. The law was brought in to show us sin, and if we live by it, we put our flesh to death. Which is good to do before God. But the law doesn't bring life, that comes by the Spirit through Christ Jesus.

He lived out the laws perfectly, he fulfilled it and showed us how to live before God and now we have no excuse. We've now been shown the way. And now we don't live by the letter of the law, but through the Spirit we obey the laws written on our hearts and in our minds by the Holy Spirit, and love fulfils the law, if we love others then we won't hurt or harm them, and we will be obeying God through love as the spirit guides and teaches us in the truth and so we will be obeying the law.

We don't abolish the law, we establish the law as Paul said, I thought you believe Paul, why would Paul say we establish the law of we are to abolish it?

The commandments of God will never be abolished, Jesus just showed us the truth and separated God's true way from man's add on's and by living it out and teaching it to us, we now have a new and living way to follow. If we follow him, and have true faith, then we will live in the way he taught us to live, and that starts by living by the will of God if we truly love him.


All of that and no scripture.

The Bible says that the law has been Abolished.

Colossians 2:14, Ephesians 2:15.

Why is it you don't believe the Bible?
 

clefty

New member
Where does it say in the Bible that Jesus abolished the law?

To fulfil doesn't mean to abolish.

Say wut!!!? Why sure it does...when I fulfill the recipe’s requirements that one time...I totally destroy it...and I also never need to fulfill it again...it is done over finished...lol

Never share it with friends or loved ones either...it’s abolished!!!

What’s more I can change ingredients and amounts even change the bake time and STILL expect the same result...if it calls for chocolate chips I will change it to raisens and still call it a chocolate chip cookie...so there!!...cuz the recipe is abolished...

I fulfilled that recipe I did...
 

marhig

Well-known member
Say wut!!!? Why sure it does...when I fulfill the recipe’s requirements that one time...I totally destroy it...and I also never need to fulfill it again...it is done over finished...lol

Never share it with friends or loved ones either...it’s abolished!!!

What’s more I can change ingredients and amounts even change the bake time and STILL expect the same result...if it calls for chocolate chips I will change it to raisens and still call it a chocolate chip cookie...so there!!...

I fulfilled that recipe I did...
What?? I mean completely abolish, no the law isn't completely abolished. Jesus lived by the law and fulfilled it, but he didn't abolish the law for everyone else. Those who walk in the Spirit and love God and their neighbour fulfill the law through love and faith.

Many follow the laws by the letter, but without love and faith it's nothing.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
What?? I mean completely abolish, no the law isn't completely abolished. Jesus lived by the law and fulfilled it, but he didn't abolish the law for everyone else. Those who walk in the Spirit and love God and their neighbour fulfill the law through love and faith.

Many follow the laws by the letter, but without love and faith it's nothing.

The law has been abolished only for the Christian. Those that are not Christians will be judged by it and condemned.
 

marhig

Well-known member
All of that and no scripture.

The Bible says that the law has been Abolished.

Colossians 2:14, Ephesians 2:15.

Why is it you don't believe the Bible?
I read those scriptures, I don't see them to mean what you say.

So tell me Robert, you believe Paul, what does he mean when he says do we make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law,

And here's the scripture

Romans 3

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

And what does Paul mean when he says that the laws are written in our hearts and in our minds?
 

marhig

Well-known member
The law has been abolished only for the Christian. Those that are not Christians will be judged by it and condemned.
The laws should be in our hearts and in our minds Robert, the Spirit won't be guiding us against Gods law. Do you believe that the ten commandments are abolished?
 
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