Paul: The Commandments Made Me Want to Lust and Sin

[RBBI]

Have you ever wondered why organized religion is so full of immorality? Here is the reason.

"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid, nay, I had not known sin, but by the law, for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET"

"But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead"

"For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died" Romans 7:7-9.

Religion teaches that the law or the commandments produces righteousness. The law does not produce righteousness. What the law produces is sin and rebellion.

God gave the Law to Moses and the Israelites. What did it produce? It produced sin and rebellion. Maybe some were controlled by it, but not many. It got so bad that God had to sic the vipers on them. Those that looked at Moses brass viper lived, those that didn't died. Some were so full of rebellion that they would rather die than obey Moses. God had to let that bunch wander in the wilderness for 40 years and die off. It was the new generation of Jews that entered into the promised land.

God gave the law to the Jews to keep them until Jesus Christ should arrive. If you kept the law you were blessed. If you disobeyed the law you were cursed. It was through the blessings and the cursings that God was able to control them.

Paul said, "Walk not after the flesh (Living by law is flesh) but after the Spirit" Romans 8:1. The law is flesh. Pride is never higher than when someone says... "I keep the commandments" You may think that you are keeping the commandments, but what you are really doing is making yourself a hypocrite. No one can do or keep God's law.

To live by the Spirit is to live by the Gospel. In the Gospel we are not concerned about the law. The purpose of the law is to reveal the holy nature of God and the sinfullness of man. In the Gospel Jesus fulfills the law for us and then abolishes it. Why should I be concerned about a law that has been abolished? Colossians 2:14. In the Gospel Jesus is our righteousness, Romans 3:26. Righteousness does not come by the law. In the New Testament faith is counted for righteousness and not works or the law, Romans 4:5.

There is something in human nature that when told to do something there is rebellion. God told Adam and Eve, "Don't eat of the tree in the midst of the Garden". I guess God wanted to test his new creations to see if they were sin proof. No one had an interest in the tree until God said don't eat of it. But now as Paul said, "Sin revived and I died" Without the law sin is dead. The serpent knew about God's law and the effect it would have on Adam and Eve. He was right there to encourage Eve to sin. The rest is history.

You have the typical understanding of the law, but it's not really your fault, because nearly 1900 years of Christians doing their own thing have made them just as accountable to the traditions of men as the Jews most of them despise, even though they/we are your brother.

Please do not take what I am about to say to you personally, but take what I am about to say into consideration, because you are doing yourself and your brethren a disservice. Eighty percent of the NT is referring to the OT scriptures, and it is not to be dismissed as if it was yesterday's trash.

Now what do you think He meant when He said He came not to destroy it but to fulfill it? Better yet, what do you think it meant when it was said that the Christians were grafted into the tree, and they were not to boast about it?

Even better yet, do you realize, that when it says He was the Word made flesh, that the Word there it's talking about is the Torah? Do you understand that we too as His body, are becoming the Word made flesh, IF it be that we are following Him? The servant is not greater than the Master, and the Master pattern Son was made according to the pattern shown in the mount, and you better believe His body is of the same substance as He, of His flesh and of His bones.

Do you realize that the law, spiritually understood and applied, is life to your bones? Do you realize that the Torah is the Rock, that when It's struck, water (Spirit) still pours out of? Do you know that you are as a master builder to be able to take those stones and stone a man to death with the SMITTEN stones (opened scriptures/open heaven/spiritual understanding) if you catch a man picking up sticks (adding to his carnal nature) on this the Sabbath day, the 7th from Adam?

Do you know that the law IS your bones, and that the Spirit is becoming the flesh of those bones, which is why not a bone of His was broken? Why do you think HaShem told HaSatan not to touch Job's bones?

The life is in the blood, but the blood is made in the marrow of the bones. The reason mortality is going to be swallowed up of immortality is because the life in the blood in the bones is going to come out and swallow it up. You first have to have bones for that to be possible.

Think about it and let us reason together; the natural is a witness by which He said none would have an excuse. Ever see a body with no bones stand upright? If there were such a one, it would not be possible. Nor is it possible for man to be upright (righteousness means to be upright as in NOT LAYING DEAD from sins and trespasses), without bones.

The law is not bad, nor did it create sin and rebellion. What it did is it's job, that is it activated it's opposite, the principality of sin, since the wheat and the tares are raised up together. They are raised up together because they are planted in the same field, the same field Matt. 13 said was the "world", the same field where GOOD SEED (Seed Son) is planted, IN MAN, the dust of the earth.

The law is His witness, it's the lesser glory that governs the night (lunar based covenant) time of men's souls until the DAYSTAR arises in their hearts. Has the moon fallen from the sky? No? Then it's still a witness that the law is in effect. It was NEVER done away with, it operates right along side grace within the framework of time, killing the flesh while the Spirit raises it up again, after cleansing it as if by fire, the double-edged sword. Nor is grace the sole property of the NT period, because Noah found GRACE in His eyes and through him EIGHT were saved to replenish the earth.

If you don't believe it, read Deut. 28 list of curses and tell me you or your generations have not reaped because seedtime and harvest are STILL with us. Blessings and peace to you.....

 

[jamie]

The law is His witness...

Yep, that's what Moses said.

Take this Book of the Law and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you... (Deuteronomy 31:26 NKJV)​

 

[Robert Pate]

You have the typical understanding of the law, but it's not really your fault, because nearly 1900 years of Christians doing their own thing have made them just as accountable to the traditions of men as the Jews most of them despise, even though they/we are your brother.

Please do not take what I am about to say to you personally, but take what I am about to say into consideration, because you are doing yourself and your brethren a disservice. Eighty percent of the NT is referring to the OT scriptures, and it is not to be dismissed as if it was yesterday's trash.

Now what do you think He meant when He said He came not to destroy it but to fulfill it? Better yet, what do you think it meant when it was said that the Christians were grafted into the tree, and they were not to boast about it?

Even better yet, do you realize, that when it says He was the Word made flesh, that the Word there it's talking about is the Torah? Do you understand that we too as His body, are becoming the Word made flesh, IF it be that we are following Him? The servant is not greater than the Master, and the Master pattern Son was made according to the pattern shown in the mount, and you better believe His body is of the same substance as He, of His flesh and of His bones.

Do you realize that the law, spiritually understood and applied, is life to your bones? Do you realize that the Torah is the Rock, that when It's struck, water (Spirit) still pours out of? Do you know that you are as a master builder to be able to take those stones and stone a man to death with the SMITTEN stones (opened scriptures/open heaven/spiritual understanding) if you catch a man picking up sticks (adding to his carnal nature) on this the Sabbath day, the 7th from Adam?

Do you know that the law IS your bones, and that the Spirit is becoming the flesh of those bones, which is why not a bone of His was broken? Why do you think HaShem told HaSatan not to touch Job's bones?

The life is in the blood, but the blood is made in the marrow of the bones. The reason mortality is going to be swallowed up of immortality is because the life in the blood in the bones is going to come out and swallow it up. You first have to have bones for that to be possible.

Think about it and let us reason together; the natural is a witness by which He said none would have an excuse. Ever see a body with no bones stand upright? If there were such a one, it would not be possible. Nor is it possible for man to be upright (righteousness means to be upright as in NOT LAYING DEAD from sins and trespasses), without bones.

The law is not bad, nor did it create sin and rebellion. What it did is it's job, that is it activated it's opposite, the principality of sin, since the wheat and the tares are raised up together. They are raised up together because they are planted in the same field, the same field Matt. 13 said was the "world", the same field where GOOD SEED (Seed Son) is planted, IN MAN, the dust of the earth.

The law is His witness, it's the lesser glory that governs the night (lunar based covenant) time of men's souls until the DAYSTAR arises in their hearts. Has the moon fallen from the sky? No? Then it's still a witness that the law is in effect. It was NEVER done away with, it operates right along side grace within the framework of time, killing the flesh while the Spirit raises it up again, after cleansing it as if by fire, the double-edged sword. Nor is grace the sole property of the NT period, because Noah found GRACE in His eyes and through him EIGHT were saved to replenish the earth.

If you don't believe it, read Deut. 28 list of curses and tell me you or your generations have not reaped because seedtime and harvest are STILL with us. Blessings and peace to you.....

Another long post with little to no scripture.

Christians are not under an kind of laws. Not Moses law, Christ law or whatever kind of law or rules you want to come up with. To be under the law is to be under judgment.

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that were against us (The Law) which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS" Colossians 2:14.

It was contrary to us because no one could keep it or do it.

 

[jamie]

Christians are not under an kind of laws.

A kingdom without law is chaos.

For God is not the author of confusion but of peace... (1 Corinthians 14:33 NKJV)​

You do not promote peace by your continuous harping about other people's beliefs.

 

[serpentdove]

You have the typical understanding of the law...

How much can I get away with and still be saved? :banana: 2 Cor. 13:3–5

Christians are not under an kind of laws...

But if you break it, we've got a jail cell for you (1 Ti 1:9).

...It was contrary to us because no one could keep it or do it.

Ps 119:97

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

God didn't give the law to encourage people to sin, but it is a natural consequence of the law. The prohibitions of the law give sin an opportunity.....it's the concept of forbidden fruit.
Whenever men look to the law for righteousness, they will fail. It's the very result God intended.

Romans 8:8
But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence.​

.

Like the old saying; "Laws are made to be broken."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

A kingdom without law is chaos.

For God is not the author of confusion but of peace... (1 Corinthians 14:33 NKJV)​

You do not promote peace by your continuous harping about other people's beliefs.

Pate does right in condemning false doctrines.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Another long post with little to no scripture.

Christians are not under an kind of laws. Not Moses law, Christ law or whatever kind of law or rules you want to come up with. To be under the law is to be under judgment.

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that were against us (The Law) which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way NAILING I
T TO HIS CROSS" Colossians 2:14.
It was contrary to us because no one could keep it or do it.

And, if one seeks to follow the law, one must keep it 100%. That
would be an exercise in futility.

 

[serpentdove]

And, if one seeks to follow the law, one must keep it 100%...

Throw the baby out with the bathwater. 1 Jn 1:7 :banana:

 

[serpentdove]

Either:
1. Pate misunderstands Paul or
2. Paul is a sick man...

Honey badger don't care. Ro 3:31, 6:15

 

[Krsto]

Either:
1. Pate misunderstands Paul or
2. Paul is a sick man or
3. God is an awful deity, and is out to get us via nasty tricks

I might have agreed with you except that if his interpretation of Paul is correct, and Paul is correct, then it would show that the fact people sin is not such a big fat hairy deal like it is to those who say nonsense like "sin separates people from God," and God is not only willing only willing to forgive sins like lust, but is also willing to do something about it by cleaning their hearts so they stop lusting. That view of God to me is more wonderful than your view that says "God doesn't like these human foibles, do what you can in your own abilities to stop doing it." IOW, power to overcome sin is much more wonderful than the law that says to stop doing it.

 

[Robert Pate]

I might have agreed with you except that if his interpretation of Paul is correct, and Paul is correct, then it would show that the fact people sin is not such a big fat hairy deal like it is to those who say nonsense like "sin separates people from God," and God is not only willing only willing to forgive sins like lust, but is also willing to do something about it by cleaning their hearts so they stop lusting. That view of God to me is more wonderful than your view that says "God doesn't like these human foibles, do what you can in your own abilities to stop doing it." IOW, power to overcome sin is much more wonderful than the law that says to stop doing it.

Right,

The Gospel is the good news that Jesus has dealt with our sins and that we can now stand before God as justified.

Paul lived his life before God as a sinner, a saved sinner. He had faith that in Jesus Christ he had been, justified, sanctified and redeemed. And that he was complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

 

[RBBI]

Another long post with little to no scripture.

Christians are not under an kind of laws. Not Moses law, Christ law or whatever kind of law or rules you want to come up with. To be under the law is to be under judgment.

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that were against us (The Law) which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS" Colossians 2:14.

It was contrary to us because no one could keep it or do it.

I'm sorry if that offends you, but since I'm talking to people who should know them by heart and have the Spirit working in them to quicken them and bring them to their remembrance based on 2 or 3 words, I often take the liberty to simply let the Spirit do His job of that and then just share wisdom gleaned from them, rather than to take the time to regurgitate the dead letter like the Pharisees with their tables (hearts) of vomit.

Of course it was contrary to us and no one could keep it. You think that was by accident? That's precisely why we needed the Spirit TO KEEP IT and to reveal the heart of it. Funny it was nailed to His cross and He tells us to PICK UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW ME, isn't it?

Yes, we are under the law, just not in the same precise way the Jews were. What exactly do you think it is that condemns the flesh in the first place? Why were you once dead IN SINS AND TRESPASSES? Who told you had sins and trespasses in the first place? When oh when was that made known?

Think man. I know your heart is to please Him. Put up a ladder and scale the walls made of man made stones (bricks) with slime for mortar (instead of the Holy Ghost, every joint that supplieth) religious men have helped you build. Peace

 

[Robert Pate]

I'm sorry if that offends you, but since I'm talking to people who should know them by heart and have the Spirit working in them to quicken them and bring them to their remembrance based on 2 or 3 words, I often take the liberty to simply let the Spirit do His job of that and then just share wisdom gleaned from them, rather than to take the time to regurgitate the dead letter like the Pharisees with their tables (hearts) of vomit.

Of course it was contrary to us and no one could keep it. You think that was by accident? That's precisely why we needed the Spirit TO KEEP IT and to reveal the heart of it. Funny it was nailed to His cross and He tells us to PICK UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW ME, isn't it?

Yes, we are under the law, just not in the same precise way the Jews were. What exactly do you think it is that condemns the flesh in the first place? Why were you once dead IN SINS AND TRESPASSES? Who told you had sins and trespasses in the first place? When oh when was that made known?

Think man. I know your heart is to please Him. Put up a ladder and scale the walls made of man made stones (bricks) with slime for mortar (instead of the Holy Ghost, every joint that supplieth)religious men have helped you build. Peace

Christians are NOT under any kind of laws or rules. To be under the law is to be under condemnation. To be under the law is to be judged by the law and condemned. Paul never taught that Christians were under the law, Galatians 3:10.

The law tells us that we are sinners and leads us to Christ. But after that we are to live by the Holy Spirit and not the letter of the law.

 

[Krsto]

Right,

The Gospel is the good news that Jesus has dealt with our sins and that we can now stand before God as justified.

Paul lived his life before God as a sinner, a saved sinner. He had faith that in Jesus Christ he had been, justified, sanctified and redeemed. And that he was complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

Right, but keep in mind his statements are in the context of him having been a murderer, a wicked person. The cross was a powerful "visual" so to speak of God's forgiveness, but we error in thinking every human being who sins needs to be forgiven in order to be acceptable to God. I see the overwhelming evidence is that sinners are acceptable to God, but wicked people aren't, and the point of the cross is that for those who turn from their wicked ways (how many times did God plead this through his prophets?) they are forgiven, something that was true before the cross as well. The cross just made it more obvious to people who needed to be reassured of it. We tend to take "justification" to be a legal term that must be applied to all humans or said humans are toast. That's a pagan idea, IMHO. The Good News is that God isn't like that, the cross demonstrates the love of God for those who had doubts or objections, and God has provided power to change, something that previously required human self effort without any divine assistance, with mixed results. "Repent, for the Kingdom is nigh" is not an ultimatum, but an invitation into the Kingdom where we will receive power to be cleansed (changed). That's the New Covenant and the Good News of the Kingdom. We shall mature and be more like Christ.

 

[RBBI]

How much can I get away with and still be saved? :banana: 2 Cor. 13:3–5

But if you break it, we've got a jail cell for you (1 Ti 1:9).

Ps 119:97

Ok, serpentdove, I have some questions for you then.

He said if a man lust in his heart after a woman he has already committed adultery with her, correct? Same with hate being as of the sin of murder, rebellion and witchcraft, stubbornness and idlolatry, yes?

So now tell me, are those of the law or not? Since they are sins committed also in the heart, how do you know beyond a shadow of any doubt that your heart, the heart of man that only devises wickedness continually, has been cleansed of that?

How exactly does the Spirit write the LAW on your heart? Please explain to me in detail the process, if you know it, and make sure you point it out to me with the OT scriptures, since they are the witness.

The baptism of water, was/is that under the law or no? Passover/initial salvation, was/is that under the law or no? Same with Pentecost which was SPIRITUALLY fulfilled, was that part of the law or no? Peace

 

[RBBI]

Christians are NOT under any kind of laws or rules. To be under the law is to be under condemnation. To be under the law is to be judged by the law and condemned. Paul never taught that Christians were under the law, Galatians 3:10.

The law tells us that we are sinners and leads us to Christ. But after that we are to live by the Holy Spirit and not the letter of the law.

Please read post #36 above......peace.

 

[Robert Pate]

Right, but keep in mind his statements are in the context of him having been a murderer, a wicked person. The cross was a powerful "visual" so to speak of God's forgiveness, but we error in thinking every human being who sins needs to be forgiven in order to be acceptable to God. I see the overwhelming evidence is that sinners are acceptable to God, but wicked people aren't, and the point of the cross is that for those who turn from their wicked ways (how many times did God plead this through his prophets?) they are forgiven, something that was true before the cross as well. The cross just made it more obvious to people who needed to be reassured of it. We tend to take "justification" to be a legal term that must be applied to all humans or said humans are toast. That's a pagan idea, IMHO. The Good News is that God isn't like that, the cross demonstrates the love of God for those who had doubts or objections, and God has provided power to change, something that previously required human self effort without any divine assistance, with mixed results. "Repent, for the Kingdom is nigh" is not an ultimatum, but an invitation into the Kingdom where we will receive power to be cleansed (changed). That's the New Covenant and the Good News of the Kingdom. We shall mature and be more like Christ.

How can you define between a wicked person and a sinner? Does God grade sin? I don't think so. Paul said, "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23. That means that ALL have failed to live up to God's standards which is perfection. It also means that the whole world (not just some) stand guilty before God's court, Romans 3:19.

Justification is a legal word. No one will enter heaven that has not been made just or justified. God must see you as perfect and complete in Christ or you will never see heaven. God is not the minister of sin. To be found "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your sins, plus nothing.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Have you ever wondered why organized religion is so full of immorality? Here is the reason...

"Organized religion" (i.e. Christianity) can't hold a candle next to the secular humanist movement when it comes to engaging in immoral behavior Bob. Because man is naturally sinful by nature, God gives us rules to live by. It's ridiculous to imply that because there are laws against rape, incest and bestiality that the Christian goes out and commits those immoral and perverse sexual acts . God knows that sexual sins is a huge issue amongst the human race, hence the reason He set the guidelines early in the OT in Genesis.

 

[serpentdove]

"He said if a man lust in his heart after a woman he has already committed adultery with her, correct?”

Yes, he elevated the understanding of the law. He didn’t come to say drink up

and fornicate on.

“Same with hate being as of the sin of murder, rebellion and witchcraft, stubbornness and idolatry, yes?”

Yes, to heaven’s standard unrighteous anger toward your brother is like murder (1 Jn 3:15).

“So now tell me, are those of the law or not?”

The standard is higher not lower.

“Since they are sins committed also in the heart, how do you know beyond a shadow of any doubt that your heart, the heart of man that only devises wickedness continually, has been cleansed of that?”

When we are born again we are made a new creation. A butterfly will not return to the creepy crawly thing he was. He no longer has a sin nature (he’s a new creation) but he is still in the flesh so sin issues can come up from time to time. Will his life be dominated by sin? No, it won’t (Mt 7:20).

“How exactly does the Spirit write the law on your heart?”

The law is on every man’s heart.

“Please explain to me in detail the process, if you know it, and make sure you point it out to me with the OT scriptures, since they are the witness.”

Ps 40:8

“The baptism of water, was/is that under the law or no?”

OT believers cleansed themselves. :granite:

See:

What is the origin of baptism?

“Passover/initial salvation, was/is that under the law or no? Same with Pentecost which was SPIRITUALLY fulfilled, was that part of the law or no?”

Passover was to be remembered annually (Ex. 12:24–27). Pentecost was observed in Solomon’s time (2 Chr. 8:12, 13).