On Rape (the original statement)

[glorydaz]

"tit for tat" is a child's game, glorydaz.

So is this childish "outrage" I'm seeing from you gals, Anna.

 

[annabenedetti]

So is this childish "outrage" I'm seeing from you gals, Anna.

Just because you say it's "childish outrage" doesn't make it so, glorydaz.

And just because you think you're right, doesn't mean you are.

And in your carefully indirect acknowledgement that rape is an effective learning tool, you're very, very wrong.

Having said that, if you're having a hard time talking to me, I'll make it easy for you and allow you the last word, and I'll direct my posts to other commenters.

 

[glorydaz]

Just because you say it's "childish outrage" doesn't make it so, glorydaz.

Just because you say "tit for tat" is a childish game doesn't make it so, Anna. Is "reap what you sow" a childish game, too?

And just because you think you're right, doesn't mean you are.

And just because you think you're right, doesn't mean you are. (Another tit for tat, Anna).

And in your carefully indirect acknowledgement that rape is an effective learning tool, you're very, very wrong.

No, I'm not. I'll bet the stripper learned not to strip at frat parties for a bunch of drunk college guys. Not only that, I'll bet she admits she was at fault for doing what she did, which is more than I can say for you.

Having said that, if you're having a hard time talking to me, I'll make it easy for you and allow you the last word, and I'll direct my posts to other commenters.

I'll speak whether you "allow" me to or not, Anna.


See how easy it is to claim someone says something other than what they actually said? :think:

 

[kmoney]

Sometimes it is. Especially when you're dealing with the natural man. What exactly is one to expect from the ungodly?

Rape isn't a natural consequence. It's a choice someone makes.

 

[glorydaz]

Rape isn't a natural consequence. It's a choice someone makes.

Yes, one guy decided to rape and did it.

The other person involved in the rape stripped at a frat party for a bunch of drunks and suffered the consequences of that behavior.

Are you counting on every drunk being a perfect gentleman? Really? In this world of sin? Really?


Down through the ages, people have recognized that it doesn't pay to do stupid things. It's only in modern America that people seem astounded by that.

Now Friday 'bout a week ago
Leroy shootin' dice
And at the edge of the bar
Sat a girl named Doris
And oo that girl looked nice
Well he cast his eyes upon her
And the trouble soon began
'Cause Leroy Brown learned a lesson
'Bout messin' with the wife of a jealous man

 

[bybee]

I'm having a hard time even wanting to talk to you, Anna. Like all libs it's nearly impossible to reason with you. And, from what I'm seeing, some of you gals are simply beside yourselves.

I said being raped wouldn't destroy a person. A person can only be "destroyed" by something like rape if they allow themselves to wallow in self pity. I would say the same thing to my daughter or my best friend. And don't you dare tell me that kind of talk would "destroy" someone because I've seen that same straight talk help others in my life. Now, I don't give a rip if you like that or not.

I'm saying that every event in life is an effective learning tool and I don't give a rip if you like that or not, either.

I hope that is clear enough.

Well, you are a right hard hearted piece of work!

 

[glorydaz]

Well, you are a right hard hearted piece of work!

And you are dead wrong about that, Bybee. I can't help it if you have no discernment whatsoever.

Talk about a "piece of work"......

 

[bybee]

Yes I know....I'm despicable and outrageously arrogant. Thank you very much, Bybee, for letting me see so clearly what your personal feelings are. I also know why you have them.

It is quite evident that you know quite a bit.
But it is also quite evident that you are almost completely lacking in wisdom.
I did not ever say nor do I think you are despicable.
You are abrasively opinionated.

 

[glorydaz]

It is quite evident that you know quite a bit.
But it is also quite evident that you are almost completely lacking in wisdom.
I did not ever say nor do I think you are despicable.
You are abrasively opinionated.

What is evident is that you can hurl insults all you want to, but I'm not supposed to even give my opinion. Do you ever stop and read what you post? Ever?

You said that what I had said was the most despicable thing you had ever heard. But of course you won't quote what I actually said and then try and defend your statement. It's what YOU HEARD in your own small "opinionated" mind that offended you.

So, if you want to keep slinging insults back and forth, I'm pretty sure I can keep up with you until you get mad and ban me. You do have that power....which may be why you have changed so much from the way you were to the way you are now.

 

[bybee]

What is evident is that you can hurl insults all you want to, but I'm not supposed to even give my opinion. Do you ever stop and read what you post? Ever?

You said that what I had said was the most despicable thing you had ever heard. But of course you won't quote what I actually said and then try and defend your statement. It's what YOU HEARD in your own small "opinionated" mind that offended you.

So, if you want to keep slinging insults back and forth, I'm pretty sure I can keep up with you until you get mad and ban me. You do have that power....which may be why you have changed so much from the way you were to the way you are now.

The things that I have addressed to you are my considered opinion in response to the the things you have spoken here.
They are not insults. They are observations.
The level of discussion at which you operate does not anger me.
I have no desire to get into a mud-slinging match with you.
I'm quite sure you would win.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Hope what you like. I know for a fact that God does not intervene on countless occasions because He is allowing us to reap what we have sown. Rape is no different than many of the other painful things God allows us to endure as we have many lessons to learn. One of those lessons must certainly be NOT TO entice men to sin by our behavior. You may not like it. You may like to claim that rape is somehow a special circumstance for which no woman can ever be held responsible for her own actions. I don't. I view it like any other mistake in judgment that we should and do learn to avoid.

Congratulations on not succumbing to group think on this issue. Regardless of what people say about your stand, you are very brave. Not as brave as in real life but cyber brave for sure. Too many people let popular opinion guide their thinking at a subconscious level at least.

 

[glorydaz]

What you have just said is one of the most despicable things I've ever hear another woman say.

The things that I have addressed to you are my considered opinion in response to the the things you have spoken here.

Then you need to consider your opinions a little more carefully, because you jumped to a conclusion about what I said that I did not say. I've suggested you go back and reconsider, but you must not want to. :idunno:

Well, you are a right hard hearted piece of work!

They are not insults. They are observations.

Not an insult? :think:

I disagree, and insults based solely on your mistaken observations, I might add.

The level of discussion at which you operate does not anger me.

Could have fooled me. :chew:

I have no desire to get into a mud-slinging match with you.
I'm quite sure you would win.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I don't think I've ever reached the level you have here when speaking to another woman. Which seems to be your best attempt at a personal dig.

 

[annabenedetti]

Congratulations on not succumbing to group think on this issue. Regardless of what people say about your stand, you are very brave. Not as brave as in real life but cyber brave for sure. Too many people let popular opinion guide their thinking at a subconscious level at least.

You remind me of someone... Voltaire/Doloresistere, maybe?

 

[ClimateSanity]

You remind me of someone... Voltaire/Doloresistere, maybe?

Sounds like a battery. But I sound like someone you know?

 

[ok doser]

I don't think some understand what rape is.

it is this:

Herewith, a Philadelphia magazine report about Swarthmore College, where in 2013 a student “was in her room with a guy with whom she’d been hooking up for three months”: “They’d now decided — mutually, she thought — just to be friends. When he ended up falling asleep on her bed, she changed into pajamas and climbed in next to him. Soon, he was putting his arm around her and taking off her clothes. ‘I basically said, “No, I don’t want to have sex with you.” And then he said, “OK, that’s fine” and stopped. . . . And then he started again a few minutes later, taking off my panties, taking off his boxers. I just kind of laid there and didn’t do anything — I had already said no. I was just tired and wanted to go to bed. I let him finish. I pulled my panties back on and went to sleep.’” Six weeks later, the woman reported that she had been raped.

and this:

A female student in the dorms invited a male friend over to her dorm room. They were in the room alone with the door closed. He had just come from playing basketball and was wearing shorts and a t-shirt, she was wearing flannel jammies. They started making out on her bed, his hands went places she was ok with at first, but then thought better of and tried to stop. He didn't stop and continued, she didn't cry out for help and afterwards claimed rape.

 

[ok doser]

sod wants to blame victims of rape for their rapes

no, anna, i've been very clear about this

i want it recognized that their behavior/choices/actions, if performed in a manner that puts them in a situation that is known to be risky, is directly responsible for the inevitable consequences of that risk

, the same way he called the massacred students cowards.

i've been clear about this too, anna

not all of them, only the ones who acted cowardly

No one here lacks sympathy for actual rape victims. Not even Sod (I think).

it depends

if their behavior was directly responsible for them to be in a risky situation, and they ignored sound advice and warnings (such as "I wouldn't take that roofie if i were you") then no, i don't have a whole lot of sympathy

I'll demonstrate it later this morning in my On Responsibility thread (if i don't get banned for all the insults I flung in this post :noid

 

[ok doser]

I do not wish to dilute responsibility for behavior. The minute one places blame on a victim responsibility is diluted for the aggressor.

nope

see scenario #5: http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4520204&postcount=28

 

[PureX]

no, anna, i've been very clear about this

i want it recognized that their behavior/choices/actions, if performed in a manner that puts them in a situation that is known to be risky, is directly responsible for the inevitable consequences of that risk

Known to be risky, by whom?

It sounds like what you're saying is that because YOU know getting drunk at a frat party is "risky behavior" for a female, that you want to be able to blame any female who engages in such behavior for whatever befalls them. Regardless of whether they knew it was risky behavior or not, and regardless of the rapists responsibility for being a rapist.

if their behavior was directly responsible for them to be in a risky situation, and they ignored sound advice and warnings (such as "I wouldn't take that roofie if i were you") then no, i don't have a whole lot of sympathy

The problem with this theory is that it assumes the risk of rape to be the woman's responsibility to recognize and avoid. Rather than it being the man's responsibility not to engage in.

 

[bybee]

no, anna, i've been very clear about this

i want it recognized that their behavior/choices/actions, if performed in a manner that puts them in a situation that is known to be risky, is directly responsible for the inevitable consequences of that risk



i've been clear about this too, anna

not all of them, only the ones who acted cowardly



it depends

if their behavior was directly responsible for them to be in a risky situation, and they ignored sound advice and warnings (such as "I wouldn't take that roofie if i were you") then no, i don't have a whole lot of sympathy

I'll demonstrate it later this morning in my On Responsibility thread (if i don't get banned for all the insults I flung in this post :noid

I made a mistake. I apologize for that.
In future I shall be sure to ban you only when you are egregiously out of line... which, come to think of it....:think:

 

[ok doser]

My take on the premise of this thread? The author was seeking validation for rapists whenever the victim has behaved foolishly or provocatively.

then you're not paying attention :idunno:

We could just use the excuse ok doser uses ....... He was asking for it. He is just as guilty.

tam - i'm not trying to excuse anything - i've made that point clearly throughout the thread

especially the responsibility that the woman bears if she acts in a manner that she knows puts her at risk