Nontrinitarianism

[achduke]

Well, there you go, that's your problem. You don't understand how
to "Rightly Divide " the Bible.

Are you absolutely sure you are rightly dividing?

2Ti 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

 

[StanJ]

Well, no, Jesus is the English of the Greek Iesous and Yeshua wasn't/isn't English or Greek, He was/is Hebrew. My point was that Yeshua's red blood saved Keypurr just as it saved you.

MY point is, THIS is an English site, so please stick to English. Using transliterated Hebrew doesn't impress anybody.
Jesus' blood brought redemption and reconciliation for sin and mankind. Salvation is in the NAME of Jesus and must be confessed to be actuated. If one does NOT confess the TRUE savior, one cannot be saved, and if one falls into apostasy from that confession, one is not longer saved.

I'm aware what my profile shows. Following Yeshua or as you prefer to call Him, Jesus Christ, is being Messianic which is the same as being Christian. Are you done with your personal attacking now?

The why are you arguing about it? I'm NOT attacking, I'm critiquing your sectarian style.

Paul never fought against Jews. Good grief, where do you get such a notion? Paul was a Jew and so were all of the Disciples. Where was Paul when the Jerusalem Council met? He was there. What was the decision of the Jerusalem Council? Acts 15:19-21. Paul never stated that the decision of the Jerusalem Council was wrong, did he? No. How can that which is of God pollute that which is of God? It can't. The faith of Yeshua could not pollute the faith of Yeshua. You have a very poor understanding of Christianity and from that poor understanding is coming misrepresentation of the faith. The problem wasn't with God's Law, but rather with God's people continuing in an Old Covenant which they had broken. Yeshua was/is the New Covenant but God's Law is still there to show us what sin is and to call us to holiness in Yeshua. It is summed up in two Laws, loving God with all our heart, soul, strength and mind and loving our neighbors as ourselves.

I would think you SHOULD know this by now, but obviously your do not.
Read the following as an example;
http://www.reformation21.org/shelf-life/paul-in-fresh-perspective.php

I'm not avoiding you at all...surely you've noticed. If your answer is "no, obviously" then there is no way you can make that claim. You could state that Scripture states it but it doesn't. Where in Scripture is it written that when there was nothing but God, there was Yeshua? There is mention of the fact that God is not alone at the time of Creation but no mention of whether God is alone or with Yeshua pre-Creation.

People who use the old "were you there" ploy are avoiding. It's not an answer, it an avoidance OF actually answering. Gen 1:26-27, 3:22 shows He is addressing somebody OTHER than himself.
Jesus did NOT exist until he was born. Before that He was the WORD, and John 1:1 says the WORD was GOD.

Absolutely because His was a servant's heart and He never put Himself on the same level as God and, in fact, stated just the opposite. He would never consider Himself the completion of God.

You don't believe the following?
Jesus said: I and the Father are one.
Jesus said: If you've seen me you've seen the Father.
Jesus said: If you knew me, you would know my Father also.
Jesus said: You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.
Jesus said: If you do not believe that I am He, you will indeed die in your sins.
Jesus said: You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am.
Jesus said: Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

Yes, actually you did say so by bringing Arius up in the discussion and the doctrine we are discussing is the Trinity.

Which obviously was the result of false teachings occurring BEFORE then. The doctrines already existed FAR before 250 AD and that Nicene Council.

The doctrine of the Trinity is not in Scripture per se and Yeshua never taught the doctrine of the Trinity.

Not that YOU see, but it is indeed there in the old and new.

No, because Yeshua's authority was given Him by God and because He is seated at the right hand of God.

How does this answer my question, and do you know what the "right hand of God" actually conveys?

"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also." John 14:1-3
FYI, this is my goal, the complete and total desire of my heart, to be in God's House where Yeshua is. But none of us know who God is other than that He is the Creator, the God of His people Israel and the Father of Yeshua Who has made it possible for us to be in communion with Him again.
No gates, eh? Revelation 22:12-15 If the Father has a House, then that House has a door...gates!

John 14 is Jesus talking about the NEW Jerusalem, NOT heaven or pearly gates.
WE, the Body of Christ are God's house now. 1 Cor 3:16 (NIV), 1 Cor 6:20 (NIV), 2 Cor 6:16 (NIV) are only a few examples of this.

You confuse the NEW Jerusalem with heaven and equivocate about what you were conveying. When we die, we don't GO to heaven and there are NO pearly gates IN heaven. The gates In Rev 22:14 are hyperbolic in nature, NOT real.

 

[oatmeal]

Then you must believe that there are two who describe themselves as the Alpha and Omega and the beginning and the end.

How did you ever trick your mind into believing such nonsense?

Why is that nonsense?

Does God refer to himself as a shepherd? Yes, Psalm 23

Does the son of God refers himself as a shepherd? Yes, John 10

Was David a shepherd? Yes

Was Moses a shepherd? Yes

How about Jacob and his sons?

Is it nonsense that all these are shepherds?

How about light?

Is God light? Yes.

Is the son of God light? Yes.

Are his disciples lights? Yes.

Is that nonsense as well?

Surely, God's word warrants a far closer study.

 

[keypurr]

Just giving you a lesson on how to, "Rightly Divide" the Bible.

Thats funny GM

 

[Cons&Spires]

I accidentally stumbled onto a thread today. Come to find out, it was a debate about the trinity vs anti-trinity.

It got me to thinking.

Does Nontrinitarianism believe that Jesus was created?

Thank you kindly.

Being that nontrinitarianism proposes that Jesus is not God, one would venture a notion that he was created in the womb of Mary.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Being that nontrinitarianism proposes that Jesus is not God, one would venture a notion that he was created in the womb of Mary.

Jesus is the son of God through the Holy Spirit overshadowing Mary.

Jesus is the seed of David.

It should be obvious that the egg in Mary came from the line of flesh from David.

The Holy Spirit bought life to that egg.

Nothing is said of Jesus being alive in Heaven before He was born.

Do not be fooled by RCC trinity doctrine, which adds to Gods word.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.



LA

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Thats funny GM

Try it sometime.

 

[oatmeal]

Being that nontrinitarianism proposes that Jesus is not God, one would venture a notion that he was created in the womb of Mary.

The Father's contribution to the impregnating the egg in the womb of Mary was created. Specifically, the sperm cell that God created to impregnate Mary's egg was exactly to God's requirements to have a human son who would be potentially capable of redeeming mankind.

However, having the perfect genetic makeup, as Adam and Eve had, is no guarantee of obedience, see Genesis 3 and A and E's failure to obey God.

Jesus Christ had to decide to love and obey God, His Father.

He did so completely and perfectly.

However, being a human he had to grow and mature to fulfill God's call to him.

Luke 2:52

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Note what is says

Then note what it does not say.

It does not say God increased in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and man.

God is already complete and perfect, God is God.

However a human can increase in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and man.

Therefore Jesus is not God, but a human.

 

[Puppet]

Jesus is the son of God through the Holy Spirit overshadowing Mary.

Jesus is the seed of David.

It should be obvious that the egg in Mary came from the line of flesh from David.

The Holy Spirit bought life to that egg.

Nothing is said of Jesus being alive in Heaven before He was born.

Do not be fooled by RCC trinity doctrine, which adds to Gods word.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.



LA

Jesus is the past, present and the future. There isn't a time He never was. He has always been around. He is the beginning and the end just so you can see hs is all even though there isn't a beginning and an end. Infinity is infinity.

You created an imaginary box just for yourself and you shoved Jesus in it just so you can keep him all to yourself. Guess what, your box has been empty all your life cause you worship your false denomination.

 

[oatmeal]

Jesus is the past, present and the future. There isn't a time He never was. He has always been around. He is the beginning and the end just so you can see hs is all even though there isn't a beginning and an end. Infinity is infinity.

You created an imaginary box just for yourself and you shoved Jesus in it just so you can keep him all to yourself. Guess what, your box has been empty all your life cause you worship your false denomination.

As usual, you offer no scripture to support your assertions.

And the reason is, there are no scriptures that support your assertions.

There is one God, the God and Father of the lord Jesus Christ.

I Corinthians 8:6

When you choose scripture over rumors, you will be blessed

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Surely, God's word warrants a far closer study.

You can study the Bible as long as you want but if you refuse to use your brain then you will remain confused.

There can only be One who is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.

Let me ask you a simple question. Is Jehovah the beginning and the end or is it the Lord Jesus?

Or will you argue that they are both the beginning?

 

[Puppet]

As usual, you offer no scripture to support your assertions.

And the reason is, there are no scriptures that support your assertions.

There is one God, the God and Father of the lord Jesus Christ.

I Corinthians 8:6

When you choose scripture over rumors, you will be blessed

One breath was breathed into Adam. Christ is that breath. You're lazy! You can find your own quotes. You can do your own homework on that. We won't do your homework for you.

 

[keypurr]

Jesus is the past, present and the future. There isn't a time He never was. He has always been around. He is the beginning and the end just so you can see hs is all even though there isn't a beginning and an end. Infinity is infinity.



You created an imaginary box just for yourself and you shoved Jesus in it just so you can keep him all to yourself. Guess what, your box has been empty all your life cause you worship your false denomination.

Jesus was born, he was a, man. The Christ in him in the created express image of the Father. At one time the Father was alone. Christ is his first creation.

ALL IMAGES ARE CREATIONS.

 

[keypurr]

One breath was breathed into Adam. Christ is that breath. You're lazy! You can find your own quotes. You can do your own homework on that. We won't do your homework for you.

Thats a new one to me.

 

[truthjourney]

Nothing is said of Jesus being alive in Heaven before He was born.

Nothing? ...John 3:13 And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man who is in heaven.
John 3:31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all.
John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
John 6:41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven."
John 6:42 They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, 'I came down from heaven'?"
John 6:62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
John 8:14 Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.
John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
John 17:5 Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with that glory I had with You before the world existed.
John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

 

[Bright Raven]

Nothing? ...John 3:13 And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man who is in heaven.
John 3:31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all.
John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
John 6:41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven."
John 6:42 They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, 'I came down from heaven'?"
John 6:62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
John 8:14 Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.
John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
John 17:5 Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with that glory I had with You before the world existed.
John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

Very nice post.

 

[God's Truth]

Where does it say he had a physical body before coming to earth?

Jesus was the visible of the invisible God from the beginning, then while on earth, as now.

Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

John 14:9
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?


2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Hebrews 11:27
By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king's anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible.


God is invisible, and He lives in unapproachable light. See 1 Timothy 6:16.

In the beginning, He made Himself a visible body, the Spiritual body of the man Jesus Christ. See Colossians 1:15.

This Jesus is God the Father made visible. See Hebrews 1:3, and Colossians 1:15.

God the Father made everything through Jesus. See Colossians 1:16.

Jesus is the same God who spoke to us in the Old Testament. See Revelation 1:8, 17; Revelation 22:13; Isaiah 44:6; Isaiah 48:12.


Jesus emptied himself from that Spiritual BODY in heaven; he made himself nothing when he came to earth as a human.

After Jesus died, he was resurrected and given the same glory and Spiritual body he had before he came to earth.

This scripture Jesus tells the Father to glorify him in His presence with the GLORY he had before the world began.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

 

[God's Truth]

Do you have a Scripture verse for that?

See the post I just posted. Thanks.

 

[Puppet]

Thats a new one to me.

Its old news that God has always been the begginning and the end but the end is new news to you. The new end result for you is that Christ is one with God like always. Flee from man made garbage that is stuck in time never getting anywhere. Naturaly you're time bound handcuffed yourself all alone never understanding the spiritual things of God. Even an atheist can read the material things on paper. You speak like atheist just quoting aimlessly from paper Bible that sounds polished like a writer to trick us to make yourself look good like the good looking angel that got casted from heaven.

You really don't look good

 

[God's Truth]

Nothing is said of Jesus being alive in Heaven before He was born.


LA

Jesus CAME FROM HEAVEN.


No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven--the Son of Man. See John 3:13.

God sent his Son into the world. John 3:17.

Jesus came from the Father. See John 1:14.

Jesus came down from heaven. See John 6:38. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

John 6:62
Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!


John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.