No Longer A Christian

[Lighthouse]

Zakath-
I never said that it was always wrong. I said that taking of innocent life qualifies as murder, unless circumstances dictate otherwise as the case with "mother or child." The times God commanded the Israelites to kill all life they were not taking innocent life.

 

[Granite]

"It wasn't cruel; it involved the full consent of the Son, who gave himself in love."

Well, I guess we can quibble, but the torture of one of your own members and the abandonment of said member seems cruel on its face. I suppose that's just me.

 

[wickwoman]

Originally posted by granite1010

"It wasn't cruel; it involved the full consent of the Son, who gave himself in love."

Well, I guess we can quibble, but the torture of one of your own members and the abandonment of said member seems cruel on its face. I suppose that's just me.

Well let's see, if one of my 2 year old nephews did a "bad thing" then certainly it would be loving of me to accept the torture and sacrifice of the other one to appease my anger.

It ain't just youins.

 

[Granite]

"Osiris (father of Horus) was murdered and his body was dismembered and scattered. The pieces of his body were recovered and rejoined. He journeyed to the underworld, where he became lord of the dead. He did not rise from the dead."

The point being that Osiris (a member of an Egyptian trinity of sorts) was reborn. He was also, incidentally, pictured as a shepherd carrying a lamb on his shoulders. Interesting...

To demand that a mythological analogy be perfect and clear of "ambiguity" is an impossible test, especially considering the ambiguity of the Christian religion.

Noticed you didn't address the issue of the three days and nights.

 

[wickwoman]

Originally posted by granite1010
Noticed you didn't address the issue of the three days and nights.

I will. Here's some other interesting info gleaned from numerous sources on the web which are available in large quantity:

The mythical character, Attis, was believed to have died and been resurrected each year during March. Attis ( a/k/a Tammuz, Osiris, Dionysus, or Orpheus) was believed to have been born of a virgin. The festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday and celebrated on Sunday as the day of resurrection. It was also a festival to celebrate rebirth and renewal with the arrival of the spring.

Dionysus was the Son of Zeus and Semele, a mortal.

The first Roman emperor Augustus (62 BC - 14 AD), was believed to be the son of the God Apollo, and a snake.

Romulus was called a son of God to whom the Romans prayed for grace.

For more info see religioustolerance.org.

 

[add yasaf]

granite1010,


I always say to someone who doesn't want to become a Christian, because there are too many hypocrites in the church, that there is always room for one more!!!


Isn't is true that when compared to Christ, much of Christianity pales in comparison? But we are called to be followers of Christ nonetheless.

See this book - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1591280060/102-0840607-1440919?v=glance


As for your archaelogical data not supporting the OT, you need to take the Archaeology of Palestine class at Harvard that I am currently taking, and you will change your mind.


See this book - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0664220908/102-0840607-1440919?v=glance

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by add yasaf

granite1010,


I always say to someone who doesn't want to become a Christian, because there are too many hypocrites in the church, that there is always room for one more!!!


Isn't is true that when compared to Christ, much of Christianity pales in comparison? But we are called to be followers of Christ nonetheless.

See this book - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1591280060/102-0840607-1440919?v=glance


As for your archaelogical data not supporting the OT, you need to take the Archaeology of Palestine class at Harvard that I am currently taking, and you will change your mind.


See this book - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0664220908/102-0840607-1440919?v=glance

Tell you what: if archeologists can confirm that David had 800,000 (or 1.1 million, depending on what verse you choose) fighting men at his command, I'll eat my hat. That's more than the Roman Empire ever had, by the way.

I do agree with you on one thing...many professing Christians seem to be as far removed from Christ as you can imagine.

 

[On Fire]

Originally posted by granite1010
I do agree with you on one thing...many professing Christians seem to be as far removed from Christ as you can imagine.

Have you ever considered a seat on the Supreme Court?

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by On Fire

Have you ever considered a seat on the Supreme Court?

Yep.

I can see me and Scalia kicking back with stogies and drinks, Thomas making wisecracks the minute Sandra walks out of the room...oh, and we could pull practical jokes on John Paul the minute he passes out...

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by lighthouse
I never said that it was always wrong.

I never claimed you did. I was merely asking you to clarify your point.

I said that taking of innocent life qualifies as murder, unless circumstances dictate otherwise as the case with "mother or child."

That was helpful in clarifying your point, thanks. :thumb:

The times God commanded the Israelites to kill all life they were not taking innocent life.

This sounds like you are saying that, in your religious view, the unborn are not "innocent life". Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by lighthouse

Zakath-
I never said that it was always wrong. I said that taking of innocent life qualifies as murder, unless circumstances dictate otherwise as the case with "mother or child." The times God commanded the Israelites to kill all life they were not taking innocent life.

So wholesale genocide was okay back then. How about now?

 

[On Fire]

Originally posted by granite1010

So wholesale genocide was okay back then. How about now?

What part of the word "God" don't you understand? It's His creation. His rules. He has already said that those who don't believe will suffer the consequences. You've been warned. If you're so worried about wholesale genocide why aren't you out there converting the lost?

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by On Fire

What part of the word "God" don't you understand?

It depends entirely on who's using the word, since it's definition seems a bit "fluid". :chuckle:

It's His creation.

Prove it.

His rules.

Nope. He doesn't even exist. All you're doing is asserting that the rules you prefer are his rules to try to bolster the authority behind your personal preferences.

He has already said that those who don't believe will suffer the consequences.

No he didn't. You're referring to translations of a collection of copies of ancient versions religious stories penned in languages you cannot even read. There is no more evidence that some deity is accurately quoted in the Bible than in the Bhagavad-gita, the Qua'ran, or the Zend Avesta.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by On Fire

What part of the word "God" don't you understand? It's His creation. His rules. He has already said that those who don't believe will suffer the consequences. You've been warned. If you're so worried about wholesale genocide why aren't you out there converting the lost?

Right. So, you're saying that the genocide was okay then, and it's justifiable now. Correct? Given the right circumstances Christians would be A-OK if they decided to start killing women, men, stealing goods, and kidnapping virgins. Yes or no.

The Jehovah of the Old Testament commanded barbarism, genocide, misogyny, the seizure of virgins, and other assorted brutality. Now, whether or not any of this ever happened (and I personally doubt the reality of most OT history) doesn't matter. It's in there. Wrapping yourself in a Bible and just saying "God did it, it MUST be okay" is a defense mechanism, nothing more.

Most Christians don't like the Old Testament because of the blood shed a) done in God's name, b) perpetrated against children and women, and c) ordered directly by Jehovah. It's not as though Moses was misguided or didn't understand what God was telling him. In fact, Jehovah could get annoyed very quickly when not enough was burned to the ground, slaughtered, or seized.

 

[Gerald]

Originally posted by Zakath

It depends entirely on who's using the word, since it's definition seems a bit "fluid". :chuckle:

Prove it.

Nope. He doesn't even exist. All you're doing is asserting that the rules you prefer are his rules to try to bolster the authority behind your personal preferences.

No he didn't. You're referring to translations of a collection of copies of ancient versions religious stories penned in languages you cannot even read. There is no more evidence that some deity is accurately quoted in the Bible than in the Bhagavad-gita, the Qua'ran, or the Zend Avesta.

[On Fire]

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!!!!1!!11!!!

You're a lying, scheming piece of atheist scum.

And you eat babies.

And kick puppies.

And your mother's ugly.

[/On Fire]

Thanks, folks, I'm here all week. Try the veal and be sure to tip your waitress.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Gerald

[On Fire]

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!!!!1!!11!!!

You're a lying, scheming piece of atheist scum.

And you eat babies.

And kick puppies.

And your mother's ugly.

[/On Fire]

Thanks, folks, I'm here all week. Try the veal and be sure to tip your waitress.

:chuckle:

 

[Zakath]

Ditto, G! :chuckle:

 

[Lighthouse]

I have given it some thought. The unborn are innocent, but they do not remain innocent. However, God can do whatever He wants with His creation. Those who are not God have no right to take innocent life, for no valid reason.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by lighthouse

I have given it some thought. The unborn are innocent, but they do not remain innocent. However, God can do whatever He wants with His creation. Those who are not God have no right to take innocent life, for no valid reason.

So when do they stop being innocent? This whole "age of accountability" concept has no scriptural support.

If God can do whatever he wants with his creation, would you answer the questions I asked of On Fire?

 

[On Fire]

Originally posted by granite1010

Right. So, you're saying that the genocide was okay then, and it's justifiable now. Correct? Given the right circumstances Christians would be A-OK if they decided to start killing women, men, stealing goods, and kidnapping virgins. Yes or no.

The Jehovah of the Old Testament commanded barbarism, genocide, misogyny, the seizure of virgins, and other assorted brutality. Now, whether or not any of this ever happened (and I personally doubt the reality of most OT history) doesn't matter. It's in there. Wrapping yourself in a Bible and just saying "God did it, it MUST be okay" is a defense mechanism, nothing more.

Most Christians don't like the Old Testament because of the blood shed a) done in God's name, b) perpetrated against children and women, and c) ordered directly by Jehovah. It's not as though Moses was misguided or didn't understand what God was telling him. In fact, Jehovah could get annoyed very quickly when not enough was burned to the ground, slaughtered, or seized.

You say "Right." but you don't really understand. Defense mechanism?!?! See, you JUST DON'T GET IT. "Most Christian don't like the OT"? Where on Earth did you get that lie?

So you can believe in God in so far as he punishes people but not when He offers salvation to the world? You can't have one without the other.