No Longer A Christian

[Granite]

Originally posted by On Fire

Wait.....who's always asking for proof? Oh....that's right, it's the atheists! Stop asking for proof. Do you think one of us is sitting on a Polaroid of God creating Adam? :freak:

Talking to a Christian is like playing poker with someone who insists on playing with imaginary cards and an infinite amount of chips.

Keep raising the bet, keeping jacking up the ante...and never, ever, have the inconvenience of actually having to show the rest of the world your hand.

Sad or something else. Dunno. As a wise man said, if you're not laughing or crying, you're not paying attention.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by granite1010

Talking to a Christian is like playing poker with someone who insists on playing with imaginary cards and an infinite amount of chips.

Keep raising the bet, keeping jacking up the ante...and never, ever, have the inconvenience of actually having to show the rest of the world your hand.

Sad or something else. Dunno. As a wise man said, if you're not laughing or crying, you're not paying attention.

Sadly enough, that's all too accurate...

Reminds me of an old Star Trek show with a card game Kirk made up called "Fizbin" or something like that... :chuckle:

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by Zakath

So when the Jews slaughtered the innocents, were they wrong?

Not if God commanded it.

When the Christians slaughtered the Muslims (including pregnant women and unborn babies) by the thousands in the Crusades, were they wrong?

As far as I know, God did not command this. So it would appear that they were wromg.

When the Christians slaughtered thousands of people (including pregnant women and unborn babies) of other religions during the Inquisition, were they wrong?

See above.

 

[Granite]

"Not if God commanded it."

So if someone thinks, says, or is convinced God's commanded them to do something, they get a pass?

Pretty sick attitude, Lighthouse. You're lining up with genocide.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Originally posted by granite1010

And as I asked: until the text can't mean something other than what it says, how do we know when a "day" really is a "day" or if it's a "day" we have to "round"?

Was creation literally six days? And was Jonah in the fish three days or not? The only reason you have to torture the text is because you have something to prove. Scripture is straightforward until its credibility is on the line; then, magically, it means something other than what it says.

What, exactly, is the litmus test one uses to determine when a "day" really isn't a twenty-four hour "day"?

:doh:

Hint: (This is your opponants strong point.)

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by lighthouse

Not if God commanded it.


As far as I know, God did not command this. So it would appear that they were wromg.

So whatever heinous, ghastly thing someone does is alright so long as you believe your God commands it?

:think:

It would appear that you believe that only Jews can slaughter people in your God's name and be justified... is that correct?

 

[Granite]

It figures Zakath gets to write post 666...:chuckle:

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by granite1010

It figures Zakath gets to write post 666...:chuckle:

:devil:

It's a thankless job, but somebody's gotta do it...

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Originally posted by granite1010
The only reason you have to torture the text is because you have something to prove. Scripture is straightforward until its credibility is on the line; then, magically, it means something other than what it says.

You've said this before, and I've shown you how "day" was used in Biblical culture. You're imposing the same precision-grid ("24 hours") upon every usage of a foreign term for "day", without having anything to say about its etymology or context. Who's torturing the text?

Was creation literally six days?

Look at the context. Time during the first three days moves from evening to morning even in the absence of the sun. As far as creation is concerned, a day is defined by the end of darkness through the onset of light, not by the rotation of the earth around the sun. Creation is in six days, but the temporal duration of those days is not the concern of Scripture.

Here's another day:

Eze 34.11-12 For thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. As a shepherd cares for his herd in the day when he is among his scattered sheep, so I will care for My sheep and will deliver them from all the places to which they were scattered on a cloudy and gloomy day."

 

[Granite]

"Look at the context. Time during the first three days moves from evening to morning even in the absence of the sun. As far as creation is concerned, a day is defined by the end of darkness through the onset of light, not by the rotation of the earth around the sun. Creation is in six days, but the temporal duration of those days is not the concern of Scripture."

So in other words...actually, no. Strike that. I don't know how I'd rephrase a smoke a mirrors answer like this one.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Originally posted by granite1010
I don't know how I'd rephrase a smoke a mirrors answer like this one.

Just say, "ily, you're my mad cool exegete." :bannana:

 

[elected4ever]

Actually there are numerous occasions where a day is not a 24 hour period. That is not a bad answerer. One is hard pressed to define a day in creation as a 24 hour period. A day is marked by a defiant beginning and a defiant ending. Most of the time moving from darkness to light.

 

[Lighthouse]

granite & zakath-
This isn't about whether or not someone claims, or thinks that God commanded it. It's about whether or not he actually did. As far as I know, the Crusades were never claimed to be commanded by God. And the Muslims don't even believe in the true God of the Bible, and the name they refer to God by is the name of a false god, anyway. So that shows the things they do were not commanded by God. And, as it was with Ananias and Sapphira God can take people's lives when He wants to. And He's going to take care of the wicked people in the end, and since the death of Christ, there's no reason for Him to command His people to kill for Him.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by lighthouse

granite & zakath-
This isn't about whether or not someone claims, or thinks that God commanded it. It's about whether or not he actually did. As far as I know, the Crusades were never claimed to be commanded by God. And the Muslims don't even believe in the true God of the Bible, and the name they refer to God by is the name of a false god, anyway. So that shows the things they do were not commanded by God. And, as it was with Ananias and Sapphira God can take people's lives when He wants to. And He's going to take care of the wicked people in the end, and since the death of Christ, there's no reason for Him to command His people to kill for Him.

Are you justifying the slaughter of Muslims because they happen to read a different holy book?

Your inability to call the atrocities of the church what they are--just that, atrocities--is appalling. American Indians, Aztecs, virtually any native people Christian nations contacted, have been wiped out. The Inquisition and Crusades murdered millions. This is your church, Lighthouse. This is your faith. Christianity has inflicted misery and suffering on every single continent on this planet.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by lighthouse

granite & zakath-
This isn't about whether or not someone claims, or thinks that God commanded it. It's about whether or not he actually did. As far as I know, the Crusades were never claimed to be commanded by God.

Your ignorance is only exceeded by your naivetè.

• 
  'For your brethren who live in the east are in urgent need of your help, and you must hasten to give them the aid which has often been promised them. For, as most of you have heard, the Turks and Arabs have attacked them and conquered the territory of Romania as far west as the shore of the Mediterranean and the Hellespont. They have occupied more and more lands of those Christians and have overcome them in seven battles ...
  
  On this account I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ's heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends.
  -From a sermon of Pope Urban I calling for the first Crusade

And the Muslims don't even believe in the true God of the Bible, and the name they refer to God by is the name of a false god, anyway.

The Muslims worship the deity of the Bible. To them, the word they use means exactly the same as the Christian word "God" or the Hebrew Yahweh, i.e. the supreme being. No more, no less.

So that shows the things they do were not commanded by God.

No, it doesn't. It merely demonstrates you don't know what you're talking about.

And, as it was with Ananias and Sapphira God can take people's lives when He wants to.

Hence Jesus' apparently appropriate description of his disciples as sheep - livestock fit for slaughter and fleecing, from the deity's perspective...

And He's going to take care of the wicked people in the end, and since the death of Christ, there's no reason for Him to command His people to kill for Him.

Oh, why not?

 

[Granite]

Here's a couple possible answers Lighthouse could trot out...

"Well, that was THEN. This is NOW. These people were misguided and misled."

So what? They thought they had God on their side. They thought they were doing God's work. This kind of reasoning is alive and well today.

Or: "It was a CATHOLIC thing."

Sure was. On the other hand, Luther was an anti-semitic maniac, Calvin oppressed Geneva and had Servetus burned alive, and the Puritans hanged and crushed their opponents. So passing the buck to the papists just because they had the means and brass to carry out the Crusades and Inquisition doesn't fly. The church did it. And pointing fingers at Catholics is just more proof that Christianity can't agree on a thing.

On the other hand, Lighthouse might come up with something completely different...:think:

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by granite1010

On the other hand, Luther was an anti-semitic maniac, Calvin oppressed Geneva and had Servetus burned alive, and the Puritans hanged and crushed their opponents. So passing the buck to the papists just because they had the means and brass to carry out the Crusades and Inquisition doesn't fly. The church did it. And pointing fingers at Catholics is just more proof that Christianity can't agree on a thing.

Who says any of these people or their followers are Christians?

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Sozo

Who says any of these people or their followers are Christians?

Oh yeah, forgot about this old line.

Any atrocity done in the name of Christ, the church, or defended by scripture just CAN'T be right. CAN'T be true. Obviously these people just weren't Christians, at least not for real...

Uh-huuuuuh.

 

[smothers]

Originally posted by Sozo

Who says any of these people or their followers are Christians?

They did. One who identifies himself as a Christian IS a Christian. I no longer call myself a Christian, so I am not one.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by granite1010

Oh yeah, forgot about this old line.

Any atrocity done in the name of Christ, the church, or defended by scripture just CAN'T be right. CAN'T be true. Obviously these people just weren't Christians, at least not for real...

Uh-huuuuuh.

So you know when other people are/aren't?