genuineoriginal
New member
There is nothing "supposed" about the Millennial kingdom, since it has been prophesied and God ensures that His prophecies are fulfilled.
Millennial temple heresy
- Thread starter Epoisses
- Start date
Zeke
Well-known member
The dwelling place of God in his kingdom can't be mixed with the patterns, portrayals, symbols, types and shadows and ever have a clear vision about the eternal things those visible images teach Romans 1:20-21.
Moses only revealed observational patterns/images of the spiritual/heavenly things he seen in the presence of God Exodus 25:8-9, that the carnal mind could not understand 1Cor 2:14.
The carnal mind learns about elemental things of the spirit by what it observes exoterically presented in symbols to help awaken the child of God in him Gal 4:1, the process to maturity is delayed when the lifeless portrayals etc..... are not set aside completely, Gal 3:1-5, Hebrews 6:1-5, 2Cor 5:16, spiritual understanding will be like those who couldn't grasp Mark 14:58-59, was revealing OT Temple patterns portrayed as the dwellings of God, first the earthy mans tabernacle/Tent in the wilderness surrounded/outside by flesh mentality not allowed to enter in the dwelling place of God while carnal blindness veiled the Christ hidden/asleep in the temple of flesh Eph 5:13-14, 2Cor 5:1, Luke 17:20-21.
The Kingdom of light is everlasting Col 1:12, John 18:36, Is 9:6-7, 2Cor 13:5, it's doors are never closed to the sons of God Eph 2:13, who were outside the kingdom living in shadows, Hebrews 9:24, Jesus being a type John 8:28, our pattern man becoming Christ Jesus through experience from dark Gal 4:1 to light Romans 8:10, 2Cor 3:6, exoteric patterns built with hands vs esoteric substance of everlasting life, Acts 7:48, 17:24, Is 33:14, Ps 15:1, Col 1:19,27, 3:16, John 5:6,14:23, 1Cor 5:1, Eph 2:21-22,
Moses only revealed observational patterns/images of the spiritual/heavenly things he seen in the presence of God Exodus 25:8-9, that the carnal mind could not understand 1Cor 2:14.
The carnal mind learns about elemental things of the spirit by what it observes exoterically presented in symbols to help awaken the child of God in him Gal 4:1, the process to maturity is delayed when the lifeless portrayals etc..... are not set aside completely, Gal 3:1-5, Hebrews 6:1-5, 2Cor 5:16, spiritual understanding will be like those who couldn't grasp Mark 14:58-59, was revealing OT Temple patterns portrayed as the dwellings of God, first the earthy mans tabernacle/Tent in the wilderness surrounded/outside by flesh mentality not allowed to enter in the dwelling place of God while carnal blindness veiled the Christ hidden/asleep in the temple of flesh Eph 5:13-14, 2Cor 5:1, Luke 17:20-21.
The Kingdom of light is everlasting Col 1:12, John 18:36, Is 9:6-7, 2Cor 13:5, it's doors are never closed to the sons of God Eph 2:13, who were outside the kingdom living in shadows, Hebrews 9:24, Jesus being a type John 8:28, our pattern man becoming Christ Jesus through experience from dark Gal 4:1 to light Romans 8:10, 2Cor 3:6, exoteric patterns built with hands vs esoteric substance of everlasting life, Acts 7:48, 17:24, Is 33:14, Ps 15:1, Col 1:19,27, 3:16, John 5:6,14:23, 1Cor 5:1, Eph 2:21-22,
TestedandTried
New member
Not disregard, but rather a real understanding of Scripture. The Bible uses symbolism and riddles both to teach us and to add clarity. Don't be so quick to judge, I for one would rather see a civilized discussion so we can correct one another where necessary and share what knowledge we have. If you are still only reading literally you are missing many points. Certainly Paul points out many sayings from the Law which carry new meaning for the N.T. church. Here is a passage pointing out what the Word is, the Word from which we derive wisdom:
Proverbs 1:1-6:
The proverbs of Solomon son of David, king of Israel:
2
for gaining wisdom and instruction;
for understanding words of insight;
3
for receiving instruction in prudent behavior,
doing what is right and just and fair;
4
for giving prudence to those who are simple,
knowledge and discretion to the young—
5
let the wise listen and add to their learning,
and let the discerning get guidance—
6
for understanding proverbs and parables,
the sayings and riddles of the wise.
beameup
New member
Nothing new, Replacement Theology has been around since the creation of the Roman State Religion (RCC).
Origen came up with the "symbolization" of Scripture to somehow "erase" any future for Jews.
Zeke
Well-known member
The claims made against or for Origin are hard to actually know for certain, unless you believe those who had him jailed that also gave you your doctrinal foundation/human sacrifice which happened to be the Roman State Religion.
Your claim is absurd to be kind, the Esoteric method was used in all religious cultures as far back as can be traced. The symbolism in scripture is so blatant and obvious that your sanity is the only thing to be left in doubt at this point.
beameup
New member
No, Origen is the father of "symbolization of scripture" and "metaphoricalization of scripture", and they are key elements of Replacement Theology. We do have his writings as a theologian.
Zeke
Well-known member
You have writings that claim things he did, and others disputing them, a lot of his works were destroyed because he didn't follow the dictate so like all good fake christian people they jailed him for not being a faithful stooge to the Roman rulers, like I said the same group that gave you the human sacrifice were in control of what was going to be allowed to survive the flame, but even the survivors had their works tampered by scrupulous scribes.
But none of that really matters because the symbolism was always there for those able to rightly divide the dead meaning from the living truth hidden in them 2Cor 3:6.
beameup
New member
I'm sorry, but the 1st century Jews took the Old Testament (Tanakh) seriously and the prophecies literally. That's why they were anticipating the Messiah and the restoration of the earth to "Eden-like" conditions. Unfortunately, the rejection of Yeshua by Israel has only postponed the restoration and renewal of earth (see Peter's sermon in Acts 3).
It is only following the destruction of the Temple and the rise of the Gentile Church that the "metaphorical" or "symbolic" interpretation of Scripture began to take-hold in the Gentile Church. This resulted in the "substitution" of "the Church" everywhere that "Israel" is found in the Old Testament. This is called "Replacement Theology", where "the Church" REPLACES "Israel".
Zeke
Well-known member
So the mass of the Christian faith following the traditional view, though diverse in doctrines yet still built on the Roman foundation waiting on the same type of hope like the Jews looking for their Christ/Messiah to physically return and destroy their enemies, set up a worldly kingdom where they would rule over the nations were called blind and ignorant by the Spirit speaking through subservient flesh/Jesus who clearly revealed that mentality was making void the meaning of the letter/word, the Christian religion is in that same condition and hope Matt 13:14,23:13.
Paul's message hidden in his letters Gal 4:24 concerning the shadows Col 2:17, Hebrews 1:1-2, Gal 4:6, Our Spiritual Father speaks to us directly as sons/daughters no longer through a mediator of outward teachings when we were still children seeing him as a God like figure Hebrews 6:1-5, of spiritual things to come, that was refused, forsaken, mentally and physically jailed by these same religious zealots spiritually blind in their own understanding about the eternal kingdom of light is always at hand, shadowed/distorted by this dark worlds hope, so that dead letter criteria and the results it manifest never changes, generationally the religious teachings make their base camp at the foot of Sinai answering to earthly Jerusalem still mixing flesh with spirit remaining slaves Gal 4:1 to an outward master, (just like the Jews were under Roman rulers) you use the same masters religious criteria as justification for how you also interpret scripture that was rebuked by the Spirit John 3:9-10,3, the Spirit through Jesus and Paul clearly taught the kingdom and temple was Spiritual concerning man the living temple of the living God, Luke 17:21, 1Cor 3:16, Acts 7:48,17:24.......
genuineoriginal
New member
Your claim is that prophecy has no physical fulfillment, only an allegorical fulfillment?
That is the same claim taught by Roman Catholics.
Zeke
Well-known member
Flesh and blood inherits more of the same type of corruption it always has Ecclesiastes 1:9, John 18:36.
If prophecy has a one time physical worldwide fulfillment, (whatever prophecy you might wish to speak of), then when it happens, and it is fulfilled, the words of Messiah will have passed away. That would be a direct contradiction of the words of Messiah himself, for he says, "The heavens and the earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away." Biblical prophecy is not based on time lines except when it comes to your own personal mini time line or mini-dispensation in your own private and personal walk with and in Messiah. In other words the apocalypse and consummation of your first age will not likely be televised, (pray that it isn't, lol). Perhaps in the age to come hereafter you will consider it perfectly, (and not many will believe you, lol).
popsthebuilder
New member
The Father "acted out" the ages in His Son, (Heb1:2), for our benefit and learning, (walk).
Hebrews 1:2 W/H Greek Text
2 ον εθηκεν κληρονομον παντων δι ου και εποιησεν τους αιωνας
"εποιησεν τους αιωνας" ~ "He performed-did-made-acted out the ages"
"Whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He performed the ages"...
The Father Elohim acted out or performed the ages through His Son. The ages are expounded by the Master-Teacher himself in the Gospel accounts; for example, statements such as what is written and recorded for us in passages such as Luk16:8, Luk20:34-36, and many other passages with their companion passages from the other Gospel accounts, and so on and so on, all of which reveal the complete model for us to walk in, (which is to walk in the full Testimony of the Messiah and endure unto "the end", (the end of you and your first "age" because it is the age of the "old man" which is passing away and to be swallowed up in the Life in the new man, Eschatos Adam)).
popsthebuilder
New member
I meant interesting that someone has a similar view....nice to meet you again.
peace
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genuineoriginal
New member
The fulfillment of prophecy does not mean the words have passed away, since the words are still there to point back to the fulfillment of prophecy.
So then, as an example of something you must believe if you are a literal physical minded futurist who believes in a literal one thousand year global dominion empire millennial reign of Messiah over the whole planet: you therefore believe that after a literal one thousand year reign of Messiah over all the earth that those who come after will still have hope to rule with Messiah for a thousand years? even though by that time the millennium will have already come to pass in their future day? That is what you appear to be admitting that you believe. Am I wrong? How many more thousand year millenium's will their be after the first literal thousand year millennium is fulfilled? That is the problem with the literal, physical, historical, one-time fulfillment mindset. The Words of Messiah are Spirit and shall never pass away. Moreover Paul says this about prophecy without stipulation:
1 Corinthians 13:8-10 HNV
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will be done away with. Where there are various languages, they will cease. Where there is knowledge, it will be done away with.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part;
10 but when that which is complete has come, then that which is partial will be done away with.
I only use this translation because it treats the word καταργέω with fairness throughout, rendering it as be done away with throughout the passage; for that is what it says and that is the most common rendering of that word in its many Pauline contexts. That means by default that the words of Messiah are personal and individual, to each and every one of his disciples and followers, each in his or her own appointed times, times appointed of the Father, including the appointed time of a day and hour which no man knows. In other words if one is watching the literal clouds in the literal sky, waiting for the Master to physically return from the sky and rule the earth in a literal world-wide global dominion empire, for a literal thousand year millennium, then the same does not understand the Testimony of the Messiah or those apostles and disciples of his who wrote of him in the New Testament scriptures.
genuineoriginal
New member
You seem to be quite confused.
There is a coming Millennial kingdom where Jesus the Messiah will rule over the entire planet.
This is the same one thousand year period where the believers will rule with Christ.
Revelation 20:4 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. |
There is only one millennial kingdom that is coming before the new heavens and the new earth.
The believers with the truth are those that know that Jesus will physically return with literal clouds in the literal sky to begin a literal world-wide rule over the literal nations of the Earth for a period of one thousand years.
You seem to be quite confused yourself and according to both Moses and the Father, (as written in Deuteronomy 18:15-22), you moreover appear to be following a concocted and made up false version of a false Messiah whose words did not come to pass. Oh, wait, that is also according to Peter, (Acts 3:20-26 where he quotes from Deuteronomy 18:15-19 and applies it to the Master). Not only that but the Deuteronomy passage likewise applies to the Apocalypse and that author also himself plainly tells you that what he wrote was about to shortly come to pass. Only in the fantasy world of literalist historicist minded futurism is two thousand years a short time by any stretch of the machinations of the vain imagination of man. You subvert the Deuteronomy passage and many other plain scripture statements so that you may continue to hold on to your flesh-minded paradigm mindset which cannot see that the Word of Messiah is SPIRIT, just as he said, and forewarned you. If you cannot see the Spirit of the Testimony of Messiah then you cannot walk in his commandments, parables, proverbs, allegories, sayings, idioms, and teachings which his apostles and disciples wrote down for you in the Gospel accounts and the Apocalypse, which is none other than the very Revelation of the Meshiah. If therefore you have not walked it through then Meshiah is simply not yet revealed to you. As I said above, you are still in "the first age" of man, that is, the natural man. Perhaps when you have come to your end, and have died, perhaps in that day you will consider perfectly. But of course if you refuse to die: no new heavens and new earth for you! :chuckle: