Millennial temple heresy

[genuineoriginal]

You seem to be quite confused yourself and according to both Moses and the Father, (as written in Deuteronomy 18:15-22), you moreover appear to be following a concocted and made up false version of a false Messiah whose words did not come to pass. Oh, wait, that is also according to Peter, (Acts 3:20-26 where he quotes from Deuteronomy 18:15-19 and applies it to the Master). Not only that but the Deuteronomy passage likewise applies to the Apocalypse and that author also himself plainly tells you that what he wrote was about to shortly come to pass. Only in the fantasy world of literalist historicist minded futurism is two thousand years a short time by any stretch of the machinations of the vain imagination of man. You subvert the Deuteronomy passage and many other plain scripture statements so that you may continue to hold on to your flesh-minded paradigm mindset which cannot see that the Word of Messiah is SPIRIT, just as he said, and forewarned you.

Revelation (which you call Apocalypse) is a prophecy that spans the time from the beginning of the great tribulation in 66 CE, to the return of Jesus sometime soon to start a 1000 year reign on Earth, to the new Heaven and new Earth that will last until the end of time.
66 CE shortly came to pass after the vision was shown to John.

If you cannot see the Spirit of the Testimony of Messiah then you cannot walk in his commandments, parables, proverbs, allegories, sayings, idioms, and teachings which his apostles and disciples wrote down for you in the Gospel accounts and the Apocalypse, which is none other than the very Revelation of the Meshiah. If therefore you have not walked it through then Meshiah is simply not yet revealed to you. As I said above, you are still in "the first age" of man, that is, the natural man. Perhaps when you have come to your end, and have died, perhaps in that day you will consider perfectly. But of course if you refuse to die: no new heavens and new earth for you! :chuckle:

If your understanding of how to read the Bible is correct, then you have nothing more to look forward to but ceasing to exist when you die, since eternal "life" is just an allegory for the life you are living right now.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

There is no secret rapture, Paul was speaking of the Resurrection that happens at the second coming of Christ.

There is a lifting up of some but not a rapture at the beginning of the 3.5 years. --

Rev 10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
Rev 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

The millennial kingdom is a Biblical prophecy, it is not a heresy.
Jesus will return to earth and set up a kingdom that lasts for a thousand years under the laws that God gave to the children of Israel through Moses, including the animal sacrifices.

There can be no need for any animal sacrifices in the coming Kingdom of God, which is without end itself but its rule over the earth is limited to the thousand years.

All the Jewish Christians offered animal sacrifices in the Temple after the death/burial/resurrection of Jesus until 66 CE when they fled to Pella because of the prophecy in the Olivet Discourse.

Such sacrificing meant nothing to God.

The tribulation is a time of desolation in Jerusalem and the land of Israel where there will be no Temple.
The tribulation started in 70 CE and Jerusalem is still desolate because the temple is still not there.
There will be a temple in Jerusalem (not Ezekiel's temple) that will be built at least 3-1/2 years before the return of Jesus.
This temple will be the main excuse for the beast empire to invade Israel during the time of the two witnesses.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You seem to be quite confused.
There is a coming Millennial kingdom where Jesus the Messiah will rule over the entire planet.
This is the same one thousand year period where the believers will rule with Christ.

Revelation 20:4 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​

There is only one millennial kingdom that is coming before the new heavens and the new earth.

The believers with the truth are those that know that Jesus will physically return with literal clouds in the literal sky to begin a literal world-wide rule over the literal nations of the Earth for a period of one thousand years.

Yes, and only overcomers are shown the Kingdom to come, and their part in it.

LA

 

[meshak]

Yes, and only overcomers are shown the Kingdom to come, and their part in it.

LA

We can over come if we strive to follow Jesus' teachings and being true to Him with action and the word.

 

[Jacob]

We can over come if we strive to follow Jesus' teachings and being true to Him with action and the word.

Revelation 3:21 KJV - To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

 

[Zeke]

The Father is in the temple 1Cor 3:16, Acts 7:48, and only knows the Son in that kingdom Luke 17:20-21, as only his Son knows the Father Matt 11:27, 1Cor 15:24, in you Christ lives as you live in him Col 1:27, and the reason for the paradoxical mystery in all men Matt 16:17, especially when their appointed time has come for the child Galatians 4:1 to be uncovered and raised up to sit on his kingdoms throne not of this world like our pattern man stated John 18:36, Mark 14:58.
Most here still have a temple made with hands mentality likened to the traditional kingdom futurist in Matt 23:13, blind to the kingdom always being at hand in them if they would receive it 2Cor 3:6.

 

[genuineoriginal]

There is a lifting up of some but not a rapture at the beginning of the 3.5 years. --

Rev 10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
Rev 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

The "lifting up" happens at the end of the thousand two hundred and threescore days mentioned in that passage, not at the beginning.

There can be no need for any animal sacrifices in the coming Kingdom of God, which is without end itself but its rule over the earth is limited to the thousand years.

It doesn't matter whether there is a need for any animal sacrifices or not.
The prophecies show that there will be animal sacrifices in the Temple during the thousand year reign.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Those seventy weeks (490 years) were already over by Acts 10.
The children of Israel had failed to do the six tasks that they were given 490 years to do.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The Father is in the temple 1Cor 3:16, Acts 7:48, and only knows the Son in that kingdom Luke 17:20-21, as only his Son knows the Father Matt 11:27, 1Cor 15:24, in you Christ lives as you live in him Col 1:27, and the reason for the paradoxical mystery in all men Matt 16:17, especially when their appointed time has come for the child Galatians 4:1 to be uncovered and raised up to sit on his kingdoms throne not of this world like our pattern man stated John 18:36, Mark 14:58.
Most here still have a temple made with hands mentality likened to the traditional kingdom futurist in Matt 23:13, blind to the kingdom always being at hand in them if they would receive it 2Cor 3:6.

Jesus provided us with this parable to explain that He would be leaving to go to heaven but that He would return to set up His kingdom on earth.

Luke 19:12-27 12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. 15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. 17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. 18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. 19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities. 20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow. 22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury? 24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds. 25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.) 26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.​

 

[Zeke]

Jesus provided us with this parable to explain that He would be leaving to go to heaven but that He would return to set up His kingdom on earth.

Luke 19:12-27 12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. 15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. 17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. 18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. 19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities. 20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow. 22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury? 24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds. 25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.) 26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.​

Well the kingdom in the parables from beginning to end is the one you just can't solve yet Luke 17:21, Act 7:48, 1Cor 3:16, That forsaken feeling of Jesus in the garden (also Romans 7:24)while flesh slept is that temporal separation John 16:16, because in our sleep we can't see the work of the Spirit in us Luke 17:20, our spiritual temple being built in silence hidden from our carnal mind that thinks it's awake while drinking the milk of the word from the stories surface reading level of symbolic dark sayings that blinds and opposes reconciliation by clinging to the letter that kills us , Romans 8:7, spiritual truth by the will of God John 1:13, mixed with the traditions born from the will of men Matt 15:6 is the cause for our kingdom warfare by wrongly divided scripture mixing death with life 2Cor 3:6. Gal 4:24, Romans 8:6.

To be weaned off the flesh Christ/Messiah portrayed by Jesus he has to be taken out of our way so we can become like him a king of our own kingdom, he lights the path from being a Son of man to waking up Luke 15:17, to our past glory as a Seed/Son of the living God John 17:5 who fell asleep in flesh as dead to the Father working in us John 6:63, to awaken us from dark to light Eph 5:14-15, Gal 3:1-5, welcoming us back home from a kingdom of sweet and sour dreams Luke 15:31-32.

 

[daqq]

Jesus provided us with this parable to explain that He would be leaving to go to heaven but that He would return to set up His kingdom on earth.

Luke 19:12-27 12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. 15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, [Acts 2:1-41] then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. 17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. 18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. 19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities. 20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow. 22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury? 24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds. 25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.) 26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. ​

You do not hear the words of the Master which you yourself are quoting:

"Then came the first . . ."
"And the second came . . ."
"And then another came . . ."
And so on and son on UNTIL IT IS YOUR TURN . . .

Each in his or her own appointed times, just as I already said to you from the Testimony of the Master which you have now quoted, the same who you quote but do not believe because you have not heard what he says even though you quote his words to supposedly support your theories which also deny the Torah.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Well the kingdom in the parables from beginning to end is the one you just can't solve yet Luke 17:21, Act 7:48, 1Cor 3:16, That forsaken feeling of Jesus in the garden (also Romans 7:24)while flesh slept is that temporal separation John 16:16, because in our sleep we can't see the work of the Spirit in us Luke 17:20, our spiritual temple being built in silence hidden from our carnal mind that thinks it's awake while drinking the milk of the word from the stories surface reading level of symbolic dark sayings that blinds and opposes reconciliation by clinging to the letter that kills us , Romans 8:7, spiritual truth by the will of God John 1:13, mixed with the traditions born from the will of men Matt 15:6 is the cause for our kingdom warfare by wrongly divided scripture mixing death with life 2Cor 3:6. Gal 4:24, Romans 8:6.

To be weaned off the flesh Christ/Messiah portrayed by Jesus he has to be taken out of our way so we can become like him a king of our own kingdom, he lights the path from being a Son of man to waking up Luke 15:17, to our past glory as a Seed/Son of the living God John 17:5 who fell asleep in flesh as dead to the Father working in us John 6:63, to awaken us from dark to light Eph 5:14-15, Gal 3:1-5, welcoming us back home from a kingdom of sweet and sour dreams Luke 15:31-32.

The physical kingdom on this Earth will be here when Jesus returns.
Your allegorical kingdom exists only in your own mind.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You do not hear the words of the Master which you yourself are quoting:

"Then came the first . . ."
"And the second came . . ."
"And then another came . . ."
And so on and son on UNTIL IT IS YOUR TURN . . .

Each in his or her own appointed times, just as I already said to you from the Testimony of the Master which you have now quoted, the same who you quote but do not believe because you have not heard what he says even though you quote his words to supposedly support your theories which also deny the Torah.

The kingdom is not to each person in that person's appointed time.
The kingdom is in God's appointed time, which will be when EVERY EYE shall see the kingdom that Jesus sets up on Earth.

 

[Zeke]

The physical kingdom on this Earth will be here when Jesus returns.
Your allegorical kingdom exists only in your own mind.

That's your traditions theory which is the allegorical one made with hands your twisting to mean the one made without hands.

 

[genuineoriginal]

That's your traditions theory which is the allegorical one made with hands your twisting to mean the one made without hands.

It is the truth.
Jesus will return and set up the 1,000 year kingdom on Earth.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The "lifting up" happens at the end of the thousand two hundred and threescore days mentioned in that passage, not at the beginning.

Then you do not know what occurs at the beginning of the 3.5 years.

It doesn't matter whether there is a need for any animal sacrifices or not.
The prophecies show that there will be animal sacrifices in the Temple during the thousand year reign.

Many OT prophecies used OT terms to describe NT things of the future.--

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Eze 47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.
Eze 47:2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.
Eze 47:3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ankles.
Eze 47:4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
Eze 47:5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.
Eze 47:6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.
Eze 47:7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
Eze 47:8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
Eze 47:9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
Eze 47:10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
Eze 47:11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
Eze 47:12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

Those seventy weeks (490 years) were already over by Acts 10.
The children of Israel had failed to do the six tasks that they were given 490 years to do.

No. The fulfillment of the promises are through the work of the Messiah, some of which are yet to be fulfilled.--

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Then you do not know what occurs at the beginning of the 3.5 years.

The two witnesses are made known at the beginning of the 3.5 years.

Those seventy weeks (490 years) were already over by Acts 10.
The children of Israel had failed to do the six tasks that they were given 490 years to do.

No. The fulfillment of the promises are through the work of the Messiah, some of which are yet to be fulfilled.--

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

You are mistaken in thinking those are promises to be fulfilled by Christ instead of tasks to be done by the children of Israel.
Every part of your eschatology that relies on those tasks being promises is false, starting with the way you use that falsehood to split off the 70th week of the prophecy from the rest.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The two witnesses are made known at the beginning of the 3.5 years.

well done.

You are mistaken in thinking those are promises to be fulfilled by Christ instead of tasks to be done by the children of Israel.
Every part of your eschatology that relies on those tasks being promises is false, starting with the way you use that falsehood to split off the 70th week of the prophecy from the rest.

Both Daniel and Revelation books split off the latter half of the 70th week into the future, as you also answered above.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
LA

 

[genuineoriginal]

Both Daniel and Revelation books split off the latter half of the 70th week into the future.

No, they don't.
Daniel's prophecy of the seventy weeks is completely over before the time of the first seal in Revelation.
The time of the two witnesses is after the time of the seven seals are completely over.
The only overlap in the prophecies is during the time that happens after the end of all seventy weeks (490 years): the great tribulation.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
LA

The children of Israel failed to accomplish the tasks they were given in the time they were given to do so.