Messianic Judaism Gaining Momentum in Israel

beameup

beameup

New member
Looks like its going to get pretty "hot" there in Israel as we approach the coming of Messiah.
As they say, "what goes around eventually comes around", and belief in Yeshua is 100% Jewish and Israeli in origin and is coming back to where it all started about 2,000 years ago.
http://app.kehilanews.com/directory

It's going to get harder for the "orthodox" to keep kicking against the cactus... :)
 
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I

Interplanner

Well-known member
All you have to do to have Messianic belief is know Romans, Galatians and Hebrews.

I don't know why we would want to know Judaism, or want Messianic Judaism. In fact, that may be an oxymoron; with Messiah here in those passages, what is the Judaism for?
 
T

Truster

New member
Interplanner said:
All you have to do to have Messianic belief is know Romans, Galatians and Hebrews.

I don't know why we would want to know Judaism, or want Messianic Judaism. In fact, that may be an oxymoron; with Messiah here in those passages, what is the Judaism for?
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Messiah and the pre-evangelism can be found on every page of the scriptures.
 
C

chair

Well-known member
Every once in a while you mention this. Not much is happening, besides wishful thinking. I tend to meet these types about once a decade or so. nobody much pays attention to "messianic jews" here.

But dream on...
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
Most Christians today are Messianic Jews as their entire understanding of religion is works-based with a little Jesus sprinkled on top to make it all palatable. If you told them that there is nothing you can 'do' to save yourself they wouldn't believe it and would refer you to all the Super Heroes who are working very hard to save the world.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Epoisses said:
Most Christians today are Messianic Jews as their entire understanding of religion is works-based with a little Jesus sprinkled on top to make it all palatable. If you told them that there is nothing you can 'do' to save yourself they wouldn't believe it and would refer you to all the Super Heroes who are working very hard to save the world.
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No examples of this come to mind.

1, "Most Christians are Messianic Jews." If you mean DNA Jews, then this is not true. If you mean that they are true Jews in the sense of Rom 2, then we need to know.
 
beameup

beameup

New member
chair said:
Every once in a while you mention this. Not much is happening, besides wishful thinking. I tend to meet these types about once a decade or so. nobody much pays attention to "messianic jews" here.

But dream on...
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Unlike the "good old days", about 2,000 years ago, this time you cannot just murder them.
"Stuck between a rock and a hard place" comes to mind.
 
steko

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Interplanner said:
No examples of this come to mind.

1, "Most Christians are Messianic Jews." If you mean DNA Jews, then this is not true. If you mean that they are true Jews in the sense of Rom 2, then we need to know.
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I'm a Christian.
I'm not a Jew nor a Messianic Jew.
Gentiles do not become Jews in any sense when they become believers.

The true Jew of Ro 2 is a DNA or proselyte Jew who is circumcised in the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Paul is not saying that believing gentiles become Jews.*
 
C

chair

Well-known member
beameup said:
Unlike the "good old days", about 2,000 years ago, this time you cannot just murder them.
"Stuck between a rock and a hard place" comes to mind.
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OK, let's get some sources and facts: When exactly did Jews murder Christians? Where did this happen? How many Christians were murdered?
 
beameup

beameup

New member
chair said:
OK, let's get some sources and facts: When exactly did Jews murder Christians? Where did this happen? How many Christians were murdered?
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Members of the Jewish Sect of the Nazarenes were hunted down in Israel and arrested and executed beginning at around 33 A.D.
These acts of murder against fellow Jews were in direct disobedience to Moses (Torah).
However, modern day members of the Sect of the Nazarenes (aka: Messianic Jews) there in Israel are under the protection of your democracy. You can verbally persecute them, but you cannot simply "stone them to death".
 
T

Truster

New member
The greatest source of persecution the first converts faced was not from bloodline Jews, but from proselytes of the first order. These men had done everything that was required of them and done so with great zeal. Now they were being told that their obedience was/is worthless and that salvation was by grace.

The same thing happens today when someone it saved and visits denominations. The more notoriously sinful the man was the harder it is for these pretenders to accept them.
 
beameup

beameup

New member
chair said:
Source? Context?
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Read the book of Acts of the Apostles.
BTW, Saul/Paul was the one in charge of hunting them down.
The first year following the crucifixion, the decision was made by the Chief Priest
to just let the Jewish followers of Yeshua of Nazareth alone,
claiming that if it was the "work of God" then there was NOTHING
that could be done... but if the movement was "of man" then it would "die out".

The second year, the decision was made to "stamp out" this Jewish Sect of the Nazarenes.
Of course, after 70 AD and 135 AD, the diaspora began in earnest.

And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. - Acts 8:1b
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And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, and desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. - Acts 9:1-2
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C

chair

Well-known member
beameup said:
Read the book of Acts of the Apostles.
BTW, Saul/Paul was the one in charge of hunting them down.
The first year following the crucifixion, the decision was made by the Chief Priest
to just let the Jewish followers of Yeshua of Nazareth alone,
claiming that if it was the "work of God" then there was NOTHING
that could be done... but if the movement was "of man" then it would "die out".

The second year, the decision was made to "stamp out" this Jewish Sect of the Nazarenes.
Of course, after 70 AD and 135 AD, the diaspora began in earnest.
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OK. Got it. It is a Christian version of the events. I can guess that this served as an excuse for a couple thousand years of persecution in the other direction.

Getting back to the topic at hand: "Messianic Judaism" is very much a fringe group here in Israel. They are not making tremendous progress etc. Nor will the country all become believers in Jesus within the next few generations, or in the next hundred, for that matter.

It does groups good to think they are making progress, even if they are not.
 
beameup

beameup

New member
chair said:
OK. Got it. It is a Christian version of the events.
I can guess that this served as an excuse for a couple thousand years of persecution in the other direction.
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First off, "Christian" was a derogatory term used by the Romans against the Gentile believers and originated later in the 1st century.
All original followers of Yeshua of Nazareth were 100% Jewish. Why is it that hard to understand? Are you unaware that Yeshua was turned over to the Romans for execution? Are you in denial that the followers of him were subject to similar treatment?

The Jews had lost the right to perform executions in the first part of the 1st century. As a result, many religious leaders felt that God's promise of Genesis 49:10 had been broken:
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh [ie: Messiah] come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
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They failed to know that a young man, a direct descendent of David, was growing up in Nazareth.

A visit to a local Messianic Congregation might be worthwhile.
 
C

chair

Well-known member
beameup said:
First off, "Christian" was a derogatory term used by the Romans against the Gentile believers and originated later in the 1st century.
All original followers of Yeshua of Nazareth were 100% Jewish. Why is it that hard to understand? Are you unaware that Yeshua was turned over to the Romans for execution? Are you in denial that the followers of him were subject to similar treatment?

The Jews had lost the right to perform executions in the first part of the 1st century. As a result, many religious leaders felt that God's promise of Genesis 49:10 had been broken:

They failed to know that a young man, a direct descendent of David, was growing up in Nazareth.

A visit to a local Messianic Congregation might be worthwhile.
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I am quite aware that Christianity started out as a Jewish sect. It ended up as a separate religion, where it is today. Whatever Christian suffering there was in the early days doesn't make their beliefs true. Not does it somehow balance out what Christians did to the Jews for centuries.

The Jews, according to Christian reports, apparently did not have the right to perform executions. If they did- why did they turn anybody over to the Romans? And again- all irrelevant to the truth of your religion.

"Messianic Judaism" is NOT Judaism. It is not the religion of the Jews. It is an attempt by Christians to convert Jews by pretending it is somehow Judaism. And it is not 'winning' in Israel.

I would rather visit a Mosque than one of those impostor churches.
 
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