Messianic Christology

Ben Masada

New member
Dry sponge
Judaism is based in the law of Moses.
Messianic Judaism is an oxymoron

Messianic Jew is not oxymoronic it is simply a Jewish faith held by a Jew

So, Judaism is based in the law of Moses! Do you know something Intojoy? I believe you. It means we have Jesus on our side. He was also based on the Law of Moses. His gospel-preaching was based on the Law of Moses. Hence he implied that to achieve salvation, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) From reading all these Christian posts in this forum, if Jesus was alive today and posting here, he would be killed much faster.
 

Ben Masada

New member
@Ben Mesada

Okay Intojoy, let's make a deal. Start your list. If you find a single prophecy about Jesus in the Tanach, I promise to become a Christian just as you are. Take my word. For you to be successful you must wait until the "Messianic Jews" finish with their new translation of the Bible. One of them told me that they are preparing a translation of the whole Bible and throughout the Tanach, wherever there is any thing about the Messiah, they will insert the name of Jesus, so that there won't be no more problem with the famous "prove it!"
 

intojoy

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Okay Intojoy, let's make a deal. Start your list. If you find a single prophecy about Jesus in the Tanach, I promise to become a Christian just as you are. Take my word. For you to be successful you must wait until the "Messianic Jews" finish with their new translation of the Bible. One of them told me that they are preparing a translation of the whole Bible and throughout the Tanach, wherever there is any thing about the Messiah, they will insert the name of Jesus, so that there won't be no more problem with the famous "prove it!"

Done


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freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Why orthodox jews reject Jesus as messiah.....

Why orthodox jews reject Jesus as messiah.....

I take great delight in messin with gay people. Brings joy to my heart.


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You mean you take great delight in being a nincompoop and assuming the sexual orientation of others.

My former posts hold if you'd like to engage.

See: Jewish Messiah Wanted

Can you disprove the orthodox Jewish claim that Jesus is not their Messiah because of he did not fufill any of the requirements in the list? Read the list in the pdf file above and understand why orthodox Jews reject Jesus as Messiah. That would be a good start.
 

Lon

Well-known member
You mean you take great delight in being a nincompoop and assuming the sexual orientation of others.

My former posts hold if you'd like to engage.

See: Jewish Messiah Wanted

Can you disprove the orthodox Jewish claim that Jesus is not their Messiah because of he did not fufill any of the requirements in the list? Read the list in the pdf file above and understand why orthodox Jews reject Jesus as Messiah. That would be a good start.

More of YOU looking for every reason NOT to like Christianity and looking for lame excuses for continuing to reject it. Why? Because this is who you are. None of us are on a UB website, dude. You fancy yourself a peaceful guy but your passive-aggressive hate for Christianity is horrid. AT LEAST stop lying to yourself. Check out JewsforJesus instead of confirmation bias you continually seek and practice. You are NOT as well-informed as you imagine yourself. Far from it. I've read a lot from both of these. Sorry, but a Jew failing to see the fulfillment of the Lord Jesus Christ in Isaiah is as blind as....well as blind as a Urantia dupe.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
More of YOU looking for every reason NOT to like Christianity and looking for lame excuses for continuing to reject it. Why? Because this is who you are. None of us are on a UB website, dude. You fancy yourself a peaceful guy but your passive-aggressive hate for Christianity is horrid. AT LEAST stop lying to yourself. Check out JewsforJesus instead of confirmation bias you continually seek and practice. You are NOT as well-informed as you imagine yourself. Far from it. I've read a lot from both of these. Sorry, but a Jew failing to see the fulfillment of the Lord Jesus Christ in Isaiah is as blind as....well as blind as a Urantia dupe.

You have a bad habit of butting into other people's dialogues, snooping and assuming so much. Who appointed you to police the forum?

If you can refute Uri Yosef's detailed paper on why Orthodox Jews do not accept Jesus as their Messiah, provided in the pdf file, you're welcome to. Otherwise butt out unless you have something pertinent to share regarding the subject.

Nobody brought up the UB, why are you?

I see a busybody, sock-puppet and buffoon at work.

Please show how Jews for Jesus is not 'confirmation bias'.
 

intojoy

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Banned
You mean you take great delight in being a nincompoop and assuming the sexual orientation of others.

My former posts hold if you'd like to engage.

See: Jewish Messiah Wanted

Can you disprove the orthodox Jewish claim that Jesus is not their Messiah because of he did not fufill any of the requirements in the list? Read the list in the pdf file above and understand why orthodox Jews reject Jesus as Messiah. That would be a good start.

I don't study error.


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daqq

Well-known member
Okay Intojoy, let's make a deal. Start your list. If you find a single prophecy about Jesus in the Tanach, I promise to become a Christian just as you are. Take my word. For you to be successful you must wait until the "Messianic Jews" finish with their new translation of the Bible. One of them told me that they are preparing a translation of the whole Bible and throughout the Tanach, wherever there is any thing about the Messiah, they will insert the name of Jesus, so that there won't be no more problem with the famous "prove it!"

Hi BM, seems the TLV or "Tree of Life Version" was also rendered primarily by Messianic Jews, (from what I think I remember in a write up somewhere), but what version are you speaking of? Does it have a title yet? Or is there an info site online anywhere? Curious.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Okay Intojoy, let's make a deal. Start your list. If you find a single prophecy about Jesus in the Tanach, I promise to become a Christian just as you are. Take my word. For you to be successful you must wait until the "Messianic Jews" finish with their new translation of the Bible. One of them told me that they are preparing a translation of the whole Bible and throughout the Tanach, wherever there is any thing about the Messiah, they will insert the name of Jesus, so that there won't be no more problem with the famous "prove it!"

By the way much of what is written concerning Messiah must come by logical inference. For example Yochanan writes, in Revelation 13:8, "the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world", and yet where can this be found at the foundation of the kosmos? The only place acceptable would of course be Genesis 3:21. Thus one must first be willing to open his or her eyes and believe that this is what Moshe is speaking about when he writes it in the Torah. It is common sense but those who wish to deny it may freely do so, and are justified in their opinions, because it does not come right out and say that this is of what it speaks but rather only implies it. However for the same reason Yeshua says that the leaders of the people were the blind leading the blind, that is, because they could not or simply refused to see such obvious and common sense understandings having been written in the Torah and the Prophets. Also, by the way, the kosmos is likened to a garment. :)
 

Lon

Well-known member
You have a bad habit of butting into other people's dialogues, snooping and assuming so much. Who appointed you to police the forum?
:baby:

If you can refute Uri Yosef's detailed paper on why Orthodox Jews do not accept Jesus as their Messiah, provided in the pdf file, you're welcome to.
I already did, you never bothered to look at the link. Again, you chase after your own tail and when you catch it, you proffer it up on TOL like the gold it ain't. You are as bad as the atheists that run to sites looking for proverbial nails. Understand something: Most of us here have already seen that, been there, done that. Here, I'll say it again to your obtuse: Jews for Jesus are Jews who have become Christians and know full-well their own Torah.
Otherwise butt out unless you have something pertinent to share regarding the subject.
:DK:

Nobody brought up the UB, why are you?
Because it is your bent, the thing that steers your misinformation and arrogance. Thus, ALWAYS part of the conversation. You look for any excuse and that's what it is. You attack Christianity every chance you get. As I've said, passive/aggressive. You aren't the kind-loving guy you pretend to be with your "Nomaste" :plain: You lie every time you say it. You are on a Christian website as a wolf in sheep clothing. Admit it, at least to yourself. You have no interest whatsoever in us or our belief about God. None. What's your purpose? Name it! Let's hear the sheep bleat...you are not one of us and not here for that purpose. So, as a debate website, I'll speak and debate where the need is greatest. Your greatest need is the Lord Jesus Christ and His saving atoning work. The body's need is to see you as falsely wearing sheep skin as well as ensure you don't lie to yourself about that prospect.
I see a busybody, sock-puppet and buffoon at work.
At least the sheep-skin comes off for all to see. :up:
Please show how Jews for Jesus is not 'confirmation bias'.
:doh: Because they are JEWS! :doh:

Some of the very things you reject Christianity for are found in Christianity. There IS an imago deo in us. There is a desire for all men to come to the truth (it is the great unifier of all men because God is the Maker and Author of what that is supposed to look like). The reason it 'looks' barbarous is because there are real and actual monsters, barbarians, in the world, PJ! You CAN'T teach the world to sing. The road has always been narrow and there are people hell-bent on going to hell despite your supposed good-intention. You are the kind of guy that want's to save predators, ones that attack and kill humans.
 

JonahofAkron

New member
:baby:

I already did, you never bothered to look at the link. Again, you chase after your own tail and when you catch it, you proffer it up on TOL like the gold it ain't. You are as bad as the atheists that run to sites looking for proverbial nails. Understand something: Most of us here have already seen that, been there, done that. Here, I'll say it again to your obtuse: Jews for Jesus are Jews who have become Christians and know full-well their own Torah.

:DK:


Because it is your bent, the thing that steers your misinformation and arrogance. Thus, ALWAYS part of the conversation. You look for any excuse and that's what it is. You attack Christianity every chance you get. As I've said, passive/aggressive. You aren't the kind-loving guy you pretend to be with your "Nomaste" :plain: You lie every time you say it. You are on a Christian website as a wolf in sheep clothing. Admit it, at least to yourself. You have no interest whatsoever in us or our belief about God. None. What's your purpose? Name it! Let's hear the sheep bleat...you are not one of us and not here for that purpose. So, as a debate website, I'll speak and debate where the need is greatest. Your greatest need is the Lord Jesus Christ and His saving atoning work. The body's need is to see you as falsely wearing sheep skin as well as ensure you don't lie to yourself about that prospect.

At least the sheep-skin comes off for all to see. :up:

:doh: Because they are JEWS! :doh:

Some of the very things you reject Christianity for are found in Christianity. There IS an imago deo in us. There is a desire for all men to come to the truth (it is the great unifier of all men because God is the Maker and Author of what that is supposed to look like). The reason it 'looks' barbarous is because there are real and actual monsters, barbarians, in the world, PJ! You CAN'T teach the world to sing. The road has always been narrow and there are people hell-bent on going to hell despite your supposed good-intention. You are the kind of guy that want's to save predators, ones that attack and kill humans.
Agreed. Thank you.

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Sonnet

New member
and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Gen 3:15

This passage teaches that the Messiah will come thru humanity.

Who is the referent of 'thy'?
 

intojoy

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Messianic Christology

Who is the referent of 'thy'?

I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed
THE ANTICHRIST

and her seed: he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.

The judgment was that the woman, whom he had tempted and thereby brought sin and death into human experience, will produce a seed. In the course of many centuries, a Descendant of this very woman, Eve, is going to be the One who will defeat Satan and will bring life, restoration and salvation to humanity. A day is coming when the Seed of the woman is going to crush Satan's head.


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WatchmanOnTheWall

New member
and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Gen 3:15

This passage teaches that the Messiah will come thru humanity.

I can beat that. There is a verse that alludes to Jesus' coming before this in Genesis. Bet you don't know which one. :)
 

patrick jane

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Banned
I'd like to begin listing all of the Old Testament prophecies of the first coming of the Messiah. Hopefully these passages will edify us.
You should get back to sharing your knowledge and wisdom in scripture. What has become of you, dear boy? Humble yourself.
 

patrick jane

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Banned
Bs'd

See here why that is total nonsense:

When you randomly take Tanach texts which have no bearing on the messiah, and rip them out of context, and then mistranslate them, and then say they are messianic prophecies, then you can make everybody you want the messiah, whether it is Napoleon Bonaparte, Barak Obama, David Koresh, or the rooster of Moshe:

A Chassidic Rabbi Makes a Startling Discovery


My name is Moshe and I am a Chassidic Jew who has, from my youth, learned the words of our Holy Prophets, and has been puzzled by their meaning.
Then, on the day before Yom Kippur, I contemplated the solemnity of the day and was made aware of the amazing meaning of G-d's words. I recognized the fulfillment of 42 Messianic prophecies of the Tenach, and they changed my life forever.


1. Early in the morning I went to get my rooster to fulfill the ancient custom. There in the light I looked into his eyes and saw fulfilled the words, 'I am the rooster* who has seen affliction.' (Lam. 3:1)

2. I took him and swung him around my head as the verse says, 'And he circled his head**.' (Lam 3:5)

3. I moved my hands as I swirled him, as it says, 'Only against me did he turn his hand.' (Lam 3:3)

4. With this he leaped from my hand and started to run. As it says, 'They have run away without seeing good.' (Job 9:25)

5. I cried a short pray to HaShem as it says, 'My words I say out of the bitterness of my soul.' (Job 10:1)

6. He ran from me, fulfilling the verse, 'To me they showed their back and not their face.' (Jer. 32:33)

7/8. I borrowed a cane from a man near me so as to catch him with the rounded edge, as the verse says, 'And Moshe took the stick.' (Ex. 4:20, Num 20:8)

9/10. I tried to catch him with the hook, but only the blows of the cane hit his back as it says, 'Afflicted by the rod of his anger.' (Lam. 3:1 and it also says, 'I struck you with the blows of an enemy.' (Jer. 30:12)

11. He turned to me and I got him right on the cheek fulfilling the verse, 'I have offered my cheek to the one who strikes me.' (Lam. 3:30)

12. He ran from me into a dark corner and I followed after him, as the verse says, 'He has led me and driven me into the darkness and not light.'
(Lam. 3:2)

13. I had him there in the corner as it says; 'All her pursuers overtook her in the small place.' (Lam. 1:3)

14. He stood there silent, as he had been to this time in fulfillment of the words of the prophet, 'He was persecuted and afflicted, be he did not open his mouth.' (Is. 53:7)

15. In that corner there was just nowhere for him to hide from me as the verse says, 'Can a person hide in a concealed place, and I should not see him?' (Jer. 23:25)

16. He was now trapped as the verse says, 'He has walled me in so I cannot escape.' (Lam. 3:7)

17. In his eyes I could see him praying silently to HaShem, 'My G-d my G-d why have you forsaken me?' (Psalm 22:1)

18. Clearly it was fulfilled for him, 'The mighty ones of Bashan encircle me.' (Psalm 22:13)

19. I grabbed him and he started to call out to HaShem.
As the verse says, 'My G-d, I call to you by day and you do not answer and by night and there is no respite.' (Psalm 22:3)

20. But there was no answer as it says, 'Though I would scream out and plead he shut out my prayer.' (Lam. 3:8)

21. It was clearly the end. I grabbed him and took my place in the line waiting to give my rooster to the shochet (ritual slaughterer.) He was silent, 'Like a sheep being led to the slaughter or a ewe to her sharers he did not open his mouth.' (Is. 53:7)

22. The shochet took him by the neck as it says; 'He grasped me by the neck.' (Job 16:12)

23. With that he screamed out, 'Be not far from me because distress is near and there is none to help me.' (Psalm 22:12)

24. He also said, 'Save my soul from the sword.' (Psalm 22:21)

25. He slaughtered him fulfilling 'He was removed from the living land.' (Is. 53:8)

26. He let the blood fall on the floor, as it says, 'I am poured out like water.' (Psalm 22:15)

27. I took the dead chicken and gazed at it as the prophet says, 'They have looked upon me whom they have pierced.' (Zech 12:10)

28/29. I took it to be made kosher. We separated it into pieces snapping it's bones as the verses say, 'All my bones became disjointed.' (Psalm 22:15) 'He has broken my bones.' (Lam 3:4)

30. Then I took him home to cook. My wife removed the skin as it says, 'He has worn away my flesh and skin.' (Lam. 3:4)

31. She placed him in a pot with water, as it says, 'For the waters have reached unto my soul.' (Psalm 69:2)

32. She added many spices as it says, 'And she gave ...many spices.' (1 Kings 10:10)

33. She covered up the pot so it could cook as it says; 'He has placed me in darkness.' (Lam 3:6)

34. The smell of it filled the room as it says, 'That the spices may flow out.' (Song 4:16)

35. After that it was served on the table and we gazed upon it as the verse says, 'I count my bones and they gaze and look upon me.' (Psalm 22:18)

36. He was divided among the members of my family, as it says, 'Therefore I will divide him among the many.' (Is. 53:12)

37/38. We rejoiced and sang as we ate him, as it says, 'I have become a thing of laughter for my people, they sing all day long.' (Lam. 3:14) 'In him our hearts were joyful.' (Psalm 33:21)

39/40/41. After which we were full and praised G-d as it says, 'You shall eat and be satisfied and praise HaShem your G-d.' (Deut. 6:11,8:10,11:15).

42. We truly saw the goodness of G-d as it say, 'You should taste and see that HaShem is good.' (Psalm 34:9)

There were many more messianic prophecies that I could have added that applied to my messianic rooster. Many more he will fulfill when he comes back.

In all seriousness the above example is no different then the lists claiming 200/300/400 prophecies fulfilled by Jesus. They claim the odds against a single person fulfilling them are astronomical. Or of their claims that passages like Psalms 22, or Isaiah 53 are about their messiah/god. Consider this well when you see or hear the claims made by missionaries or just simple Christians who you may meet. If not there may be a prophecy that does really apply: 'They are a people bereft of council and they don't have understanding.'

* In Hebrew the word 'gever' means both 'man' and 'rooster'berew
** In Hebrew the word is resh aleph shin, which can be read as 'rosh' head'


(c) Moshe Shulman, 2000
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