ECT MAD implies both Jesus and Paul are liars.

[God's Truth]

[h=2]Pay Attention to Words that Indicate Time[/h]Just as important as knowing what happens in the Bible is knowing when.

Dispensationalists should not be date-setters, but we do acknowledge words, phrases, and verb tenses in the Bible that indicate time.

A good example is the book of Ephesians which is filled with such time indications. It talks about the foundation of the church, when it was laid, its future destiny, and how it differs from what God was doing in the past.

Paul uses words like "before" and "after", "until", "time past", "ages to come", "were", "are", and "but now".

For example, in Ephesians 3:5 Paul says there are "other ages" in the past that did not know things "now" revealed.

Paul was living in the "now". Old testament prophets were living in "other ages".

If you were to go back in time to the prophets of other ages (by turning a few pages), they would not know as the apostles and prophets contemporary to Paul knew.

The Bible describes change over time. This necessitates paying attention to when things were known. Times must be distinguished and separated.

You can read about the past or the future in the Bible, but it is dangerous to time travel and put yourself in another time. Too many things can go wrong, especially if you take something from another time and bring it back into the present.

Making every verse of the Bible speak to the present time does a great disservice to God's manifold wisdom, breaks the laws of Bible interpretation, and creates a Bible time paradox that can make your spiritual life disappear.

Notice the passage of time. When you plot these time elements out you will not have dates, but you will have what goes before and what comes after in the form of a Bible timeline.

We call these dispensational charts. They are important for knowing when you are reading about and will help you avoid the dangers of Bible time travel.

For God's grace,

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/15ed34e4cdfc6ad8

I see exactly what you are saying. Where we differ is that I believe God is for everyone and His words forever.

 

[Interplanner]

From a quote by PJ:
For example, in Ephesians 3:5 Paul says there are "other ages" in the past that did not know things "now" revealed.

Paul was living in the "now". Old testament prophets were living in "other ages".



and yet this does not turn out to be the critical thing. It was HOW the Gentiles would be included, not when. They would be included by faith, not the law. It was totally clear that the Seed, one person, would bless all nations. But in post-exile Judaism, they thought it actually meant the seed--many people, and the law.

 

[musterion]

I understand what you are saying. However, I believe Jesus came with grace and a new covenant with new guidelines, and all the apostles including Paul taught it.

You're half right. He did come with a new covenant, but for the same group that the Father made the old covenant with. Of course Paul was aware of it, but the dispensation of grace is wholly independent of, and superior to, the new covenant because it's for all without distinction. The new covenant is absolutely not for all.

As has been said many times...receiving an unfathomable heavenly abundance of God's grace kinda negates the need for a covenant that's tied to the earth.

 

[Interplanner]

Of course Paul was aware of it, but the dispensation of grace is wholly independent of, and superior to, the new covenant because it's for all without distinction. The new covenant is absolutely not for all.




Total baloney. That's why there are no references.

Also please notice the anti-semitism. this person actually thinks there is something inferior about the new covenant, and that it only for Israel. Ergo...

 

[God's Truth]

You're half right. He did come with a new covenant, but for the same group that the Father made the old covenant with. Of course Paul was aware of it, but the dispensation of grace is wholly independent of, and superior to, the new covenant because it's for all without distinction. The new covenant is absolutely not for all.

As has been said many times...receiving an unfathomable heavenly abundance of God's grace kinda negates the need for a covenant that's tied to the earth.

Paul taught the exact same covenant and he said Jews first then Gentiles.

 

[Interplanner]

Paul taught the exact same covenant and he said Jews first then Gentiles.

Yes, separating the new covenant for Israel only is one of the frauds of D'ism.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, separating the new covenant for Israel only is one of the frauds of D'ism.

So true.

 

[Danoh]

Of course Paul was aware of it, but the dispensation of grace is wholly independent of, and superior to, the new covenant because it's for all without distinction. The new covenant is absolutely not for all.




Total baloney. That's why there are no references.

Also please notice the anti-semitism. this person actually thinks there is something inferior about the new covenant, and that it only for Israel. Ergo...

You didn't see fit to identify who you were quoting there - and to have attempt to go back who knows how many posts just to appease you, is nonsense - not when given that wold often have to be the case, where many of your quoting of others is concerned.

But I doubt Dispys would hold that view you quoted.

Neither the New Covenant's Grace, nor the Mystery's (Grace) are restricted to any one group within each respective Grace's recipients.

And neither Grace is superior to the other.

Rather; they're different.

The Prophesied one is through the overflow of a redeemed Israel's Grace - "let the children first be filled" - not the children "only."

The other - that Grace within the Mystery - is "through their (Israel's) fall, salvation has come to" both as "Gentiles" or both as "Uncircumcision" or "under sin."

Mark 7; Romans 11.

 

[musterion]

Paul taught the exact same covenant and he said Jews first then Gentiles.

And all are equal and without distinction or priority under the gospel of grace.

Pick one.

 

[Right Divider]

And all are equal and without distinction or priority under the gospel of grace.

Pick one.

GT prefers her own self-righteousness.

 

[God's Truth]

GT prefers her own self-righteousness.

I am in Christ and have his righteousness because I did what he said to do to get that righteousness.

 

[musterion]

I am in Christ and have his righteousness because I did what he said to do to get that righteousness.

But it's entirely up to you to keep it...or potentially lose it.

 

[God's Truth]

But it's entirely up to you to keep it...or potentially lose it.

God does not force me to do anything. I have free will. Jesus says we live on his word. We don't live on his word by just hearing his word and agreeing with it, we live on his word by living our lives doing his words.

Matthew 4:4 Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"

 

[Interplanner]

I am in Christ and have his righteousness because I did what he said to do to get that righteousness.

GT, the whole idea of 'imputation' (logizo) is that someone else has done the work, created the value... The righteousness of Christ is imputed to a believer for the debt of their sin. It is not something they do in the usual sense.

Rom 4 uses the expression 'as if' about imputed righteousness. God 'calls things that are not as though they were.' This in itself should awaken our literal friends to see that there is a place for proper imagination. The verbal action of 'God calling a thing something else' is imputation.

 

[God's Truth]

GT, the whole idea of 'imputation' (logizo) is that someone else has done the work, created the value... The righteousness of Christ is imputed to a believer for the debt of their sin. It is not something they do in the usual sense.

Jesus makes one clean/sanctified/purified/justified/righteous. Jesus does that all on his own. He also chooses who he makes righteous. Jesus tells us what to do to be chosen.

Rom 4 uses the expression 'as if' about imputed righteousness. God 'calls things that are not as though they were.' This in itself should awaken our literal friends to see that there is a place for proper imagination. The verbal action of 'God calling a thing something else' is imputation.

We must have faith that Jesus' blood cleans us and makes us righteous.

We must have faith that it does.

We must have faith that Jesus' blood cleans us of the sins WE REPENT of doing.

The ceremonial/purification works of the old law used to clean and justify.

Now since Jesus no one has to do those works anymore.

We still have to obey God, we just don't have to clean ourselves by getting circumcised, eating a special diet, and doing various external washings and sacrifice animals.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Jesus makes one clean/sanctified/purified/justified/righteous. Jesus does that all on his own. He also chooses who he makes righteous. Jesus tells us what to do to be chosen.




We must have faith that Jesus' blood cleans us and makes us righteous.

We must have faith that it does.

We must have faith that Jesus' blood cleans us of the sins WE REPENT of doing.

The ceremonial/purification works of the old law used to clean and justify.

Now since Jesus no one has to do those works anymore.

We still have to obey God, we just don't have to get circumcised, eat a special diet, and do various external washings and sacrifice animals.

Do we have to give away all our possessions to the poor?

If not, does that mean that he tells certain people to do some things and tells others to do other things?

 

[God's Truth]

Do we have to give away all our possessions to the poor?

If not, does that mean that he tells certain people to do some things and tells others to do other things?

When Jesus had his earthly ministry, he traveled to different places and preached the good news and taught what one must do to be saved. Jesus had many disciples go with him to preach the good news. When one went with Jesus to preach the good news, they left their family and home. That was part of laying the foundation. God in the flesh was on earth and it was the most important time ever. If anyone did not want to help him preach the good news, it was a bad thing.

For you to not understand that is quite strange, for why would you think that Jesus preached that everyone had to be homeless except the poor? Then what about the poor, do they have to give up their homes too?

Jesus doesn't preach worldwide homelessness. That is something you have not understood.

 

[JudgeRightly]

When Jesus had his earthly ministry, he traveled to different places and preached the good news and taught what one must do to be saved. Jesus had many disciples go with him to preach the good news. When one went with Jesus to preach the good news, they left their family and home. That was part of laying the foundation. God in the flesh was on earth and it was the most important time ever. If anyone did not want to help him preach the good news, it was a bad thing.

For you to not understand that is quite strange, for why would you think that Jesus preached that everyone had to be homeless except the poor? Then what about the poor, do they have to give up their homes too?

Jesus doesn't preach worldwide homelessness. That is something you have not understood.

My question above was two-fold: The first part you answered with "no." You are correct.

Do we have to give away all our possessions to the poor?

Now answer the second part.

If not, does that mean that he tells certain people to do some things and tells others to do other things?

 

[God's Truth]

My question above was two-fold: The first part you answered with "no." You are correct.



Now answer the second part.

You are evading the truth.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You are evading the truth.

No, I simply want my question answered. Can you answer a direct question?

GT:

Do we have to give away all our possessions to the poor?

You said no, and I agree with you.

So:

If not, does that mean that he tells certain people to do some things and tells others to do other things?

Does God tell some people to do certain things and other people to do other things?