Jewed

[CherubRam]

Oh, we are talking about the gospel of Jesus which he forbade to take to the Gentiles and you bring the gospel of Paul. Those gospels were completely antagonistic to each other. Evidence of the fact is in Mat. 5:17-19 when Jesus said, "I did not come to abolish the Law" and Paul referred to this statement of Jesus' by implying that Jesus did not know what he was talking about because the Law was abolished on the cross, being by that the end of the Law. (Rom. 10:4)

Yahwah's moral laws are not the laws that govern the priesthood and the festivals. When Yahwah revoked the covenant and put an end to the festivals, that is when the old priesthood and festival laws came to an end. We are expected to be smart enough to know the difference.

 

[Ben Masada]

No disagreement there.

No relevance to my point.

The historical facts indicate a change of name for the remnant of
those who followed Moses: from Israelites to Jews,
reflecting the fact that the Kingdom split in two,
with the Northern Kingdom of Israel taken by the Assyrians,
and the Souther Kingdom of Judah taken by the Babylonians.

Now the remnant of the Southern Kingdom of Judaea,
consisting of Judahites, Benjaminites, and some Levites,
under Ezra returned to build the temple and restore services,
in preparation for the coming of the Messiah.

Thus, the people following Moses became known in the area as "Jews",
or "Judaeans".

So that fulfills the prophecy of a name change for those following Moses.

That Christians appropriated the same prophecy for the new movement
of Christianity, being called "Christians",
would at best be a SECOND fulfillment of the same prophecy.

But if you can do that, then why not a THIRD fulfillment, in say,
the Mormons, or a FOURTH fulfillment in say the MOONIES.

These other 'fulfillments' involve massive changes at least in the
interpretation and application of the Laws of Moses, even the Ten Commandments.

So It is on the onus of the "Christians" to show how this prophecy
can be applied and fulfilled when Christians no longer follow Moses
or the Law, or the traditions of Israelites or Jews.

Because if this can be proven, the floodgates are open for any group
or sect to use the same prophecy, without any real connection to
either Israel or Moses.

I do not understand why all this struggle for an identification with the Jewish prophecies when a much easier way is to join God's Covenant with His People according to Judaism as presented by Isaiah in 56:1-8.

 

[CherubRam]

I do not understand why all this struggle for an identification with the Jewish prophecies when a much easier way is to join God's Covenant with His People according to Judaism as presented by Isaiah in 56:1-8.

Isaiah 56 New International Version (NIV)

Salvation for Others

56 This is what the Lord says:


“Maintain justice
and do what is right,
for my salvation is close at hand
and my righteousness will soon be revealed.

2
Blessed is the one who does this—
the person who holds it fast,
who keeps the Sabbath without desecrating it,
and keeps their hands from doing any evil.”



3
Let no foreigner who is bound to the Lord say,
“The Lord will surely exclude me from his people.”
And let no eunuch complain,
“I am only a dry tree.”

4 For this is what the Lord says:


“To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,
who choose what pleases me
and hold fast to my covenant—

5
to them I will give within my temple and its walls
a memorial and a name
better than sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
that will endure forever.

6
And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord
to minister to him,
to love the name of the Lord,
and to be his servants,
all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
and who hold fast to my covenant—

7
these I will bring to my holy mountain
and give them joy in my house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and sacrifices
will be accepted on my altar;
for my house will be called
a house of prayer for all nations.”

8
The Sovereign Lord declares—
he who gathers the exiles of Israel:
“I will gather still others to them
besides those already gathered.”

God’s Accusation Against the Wicked



9
Come, all you beasts of the field,
come and devour, all you beasts of the forest!

10
Israel’s watchmen are blind,
they all lack knowledge;
they are all mute dogs,
they cannot bark;
they lie around and dream,
they love to sleep.

11
They are dogs with mighty appetites;
they never have enough.
They are shepherds who lack understanding;
they all turn to their own way,
they seek their own gain.

12
“Come,” each one cries, “let me get wine!
Let us drink our fill of beer!
And tomorrow will be like today,
or even far better.”

 

[CherubRam]

Any convert bound by the New Covenant is a person belonging to Yah.

 

[Ben Masada]

Yahwah's moral laws are not the laws that govern the priesthood and the festivals. When Yahwah revoked the covenant and put an end to the festivals, that is when the old priesthood and festival laws came to an end. We are expected to be smart enough to know the difference.

I am talking about the Decalogue. The Law of the Ten Commandments. That's what Paul meant if you read Rom. 7:7. In this text, he was talking about the allegory of the widow whose husband had died. That she was no longer under the Law due to her dead husband. That's in Rom. 7:1-7. Where is it written "Thou shall not covet" if not in the Decalogue? That's what Paul meant, with the death of Jesus: That Christians got rid of the Law. Nothing at all to do with sacrifices or festivals. You are simply trying again to stick the gospel of Paul. Paul also said that the Sabbath was only a shadow for things to come; perhaps the things of his gospel. Where is it written, "Thou shall keep the Sabbath holy" if not in the Decalogue? There!

 

[Ben Masada]

The term Jew applied to all peoples of the world who worshipped the God of Abraham. The mission of the faith has always been to convert the nations to the faith.

The word "Jew" was a nickname assigned by the Babylonians to anyone who either lived in or came from the area of Judea.

A Jew is a convert to Judaism, and the Hebrews are an ethnic group of people.

Contrary to popular belief, Jews are not a race, but an assembly of people. Hebrews are a race.

A Hebrew may or may not be a Jew.

Esther 8:17
In every province and in every city, wherever the edict of the king went, there was joy and gladness among the Jews, with feasting and celebrating. And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

Zechariah 11:10
Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.

Romans 2:28-29.
28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Isaiah 62:2
The nations will see your vindication, and all kings your glory; you will be called by a new name that the mouth of the Lord will bestow.

Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

Isaiah 65:15
You will leave your name (Jew) for my chosen ones to use in their curses; the Sovereign Lord will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name. (Christian)

The Hebrews were not a race. There is only one race, the human race. The Hebrews were only a group of people followers of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The human race is composed of the Caucasian aka the white, the black and the yellow. These are groups within the human race.

 

[Ben Masada]

Isaiah 56 New International Version (NIV)

Salvation for Others

56 This is what the Lord says:


“Maintain justice
and do what is right,
for my salvation is close at hand
and my righteousness will soon be revealed.

2
Blessed is the one who does this—
the person who holds it fast,
who keeps the Sabbath without desecrating it,
and keeps their hands from doing any evil.”



3
Let no foreigner who is bound to the Lord say,
“The Lord will surely exclude me from his people.”
And let no eunuch complain,
“I am only a dry tree.”

4 For this is what the Lord says:


“To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,
who choose what pleases me
and hold fast to my covenant—

5
to them I will give within my temple and its walls
a memorial and a name
better than sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
that will endure forever.

6
And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord
to minister to him,
to love the name of the Lord,
and to be his servants,
all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
and who hold fast to my covenant—

7
these I will bring to my holy mountain
and give them joy in my house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and sacrifices
will be accepted on my altar;
for my house will be called
a house of prayer for all nations.”

8
The Sovereign Lord declares—
he who gathers the exiles of Israel:
“I will gather still others to them
besides those already gathered.”

God’s Accusation Against the Wicked



9
Come, all you beasts of the field,
come and devour, all you beasts of the forest!

10
Israel’s watchmen are blind,
they all lack knowledge;
they are all mute dogs,
they cannot bark;
they lie around and dream,
they love to sleep.

11
They are dogs with mighty appetites;
they never have enough.
They are shepherds who lack understanding;
they all turn to their own way,
they seek their own gain.

12
“Come,” each one cries, “let me get wine!
Let us drink our fill of beer!
And tomorrow will be like today,
or even far better.”

Good! If you want to join God's Covenant with His People that's what you need to do. Good luck!

 

[Ben Masada]

Any convert bound by the New Covenant is a person belonging to Yah.

The New Covenant was established with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. No mention of Gentiles if you read Jer. 31:31. I think that the new covenant you mention above must be the NT which is the gospel of Paul.

 

[CherubRam]

The New Covenant was established with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. No mention of Gentiles if you read Jer. 31:31. I think that the new covenant you mention above must be the NT which is the gospel of Paul.

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Mark 14:24
"This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many," he said to them.


Luke 22:20
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

 

[CherubRam]

The term Jew applied to all peoples of the world who worshipped the God of Abraham. The mission of the faith has always been to convert the nations to the faith.

The word "Jew" was a nickname assigned by the Babylonians to anyone who either lived in or came from the area of Judea.

A Jew is a convert to Judaism, and the Hebrews are an ethnic group of people.

Contrary to popular belief, Jews are not a race, but an assembly of people. Hebrews are a race.

A Hebrew may or may not be a Jew.

Esther 8:17
In every province and in every city, wherever the edict of the king went, there was joy and gladness among the Jews, with feasting and celebrating. And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

Zechariah 11:10
Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.

Romans 2:28-29.
28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Isaiah 62:2
The nations will see your vindication, and all kings your glory; you will be called by a new name that the mouth of the Lord will bestow.

Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

Isaiah 65:15
You will leave your name (Jew) for my chosen ones to use in their curses; the Sovereign Lord will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name. (Christian)

Yahwah's moral laws are not the laws that govern the priesthood and the festivals. When Yahwah revoked the covenant and put an end to the festivals, that is when the old priesthood and festival laws came to an end. We are expected to be smart enough to know the difference.

Any convert bound by the New Covenant is a person belonging to Yah.

Bump

 

[CherubRam]

The disciples were instruct not to go to the Gentiles but to the Jews FIRST. After the rejection of the message, they then took the message to the Gentiles.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.



Romans 2:10
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Also

 

[CherubRam]

your version of history is flawed and apparently Eurocentric.

Go to the Middle East and in over a dozen countries,
you'll find that "ISRAEL" is indeed a curse word, in use for 1500 years.

Do you have a link to where "Israel" is used as a curse word by the people of the world?

 

[CherubRam]

The New Covenant was established with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. No mention of Gentiles if you read Jer. 31:31. I think that the new covenant you mention above must be the NT which is the gospel of Paul.

Jeremiah 31:31. “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

Different peoples of the world lived in Israel and Judah.

 

[Daniel1611]

Jeremiah 31:31. “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

Different peoples of the world lived in Israel and Judah.

I am a citizen of Israel. Anyone who is in Christ is a citizen of Israel. See Ephesians 2.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Antisemites are quite skilled at cherry-picking verses out of the Hebrew Bible to shore up their hate.

Jews are quite skilled at masquerading as victims, who don't mind Jesus being called a 'bastard of a whore' but get all butthurt when someone says you all are heretics.

Newsflash: the definition of antisemitism is 'criticizing Jews on any little tiny thing period; they are perfect'

 

[Nazaroo]

If you read the books of Ezra, Nehemiah and the two books of the Maccabees, after the exile in Babylon there were no longer Israelites but only Jews. About 10% of the Israelites who had escaped Assyria and joined Judah in the South, had all become and the same under the single denomination of Jews. (Ezek. 37:22)

Part of a larger prophecy of the Return of all remaining Israelites,
in which they all stop idolatry, and follow God's commandments.

That unfortunately is not yet fulfilled in modern secular israel.

But perhaps a spiritual epiphany is coming...

Also, no mention of "Jews", since the word wasn't invented for another millenium and a half.

 

[Nazaroo]

Do you have a link to where "Israel" is used as a curse word by the people of the world?

And while we're at it,
can you show me an example where "Jew" is used before about 1200 A.D.?

Please don't rely on a modern translation that didn't exist before 1611.

For reference, "Jews" under the Franks called themselves Sephardim,
and "Jews" in Eastern Europe called themselves Yehud or Askenazim.

 

[OCTOBER23]

NOTICE THAT CHERUBRAM NO LONGER POSTS.

COWARDS ARE MANY

HEROES ARE FEW.

 

[Nazaroo]

NOTICE THAT CHERUBRAM NO LONGER POSTS.

COWARDS ARE MANY

HEROES ARE FEW.

I'm kinda missing Kayaker.
He had a kind of anal fastidiousness that was almost scholarly.

 

[CherubRam]

And while we're at it,
can you show me an example where "Jew" is used before about 1200 A.D.?

Please don't rely on a modern translation that didn't exist before 1611.

For reference, "Jews" under the Franks called themselves Sephardim,
and "Jews" in Eastern Europe called themselves Yehud or Askenazim.

History of the word Jew
Anyone who was an inhabitant of Judaea was a "Jew," and a Jew is properly a Judean, and Jewry properly Judaea.
Equivalents used by various chroniclers between the 4th and the 18th century. From the Latin "Iudaeus" to the English "Jew" the evolution of these English forms is: "Gyu," "Giu," "Iu," "Iuu," "Iuw," "Ieuu," "Ieuy," "Iwe," "Iow," "Iewe," "Ieue," "Iue," "Ive," "Iew," and then finally in the 18th century, "Jew." Similarly, the evolution of the English equivalents for "Jews" is: "Giwis," "Giws," "Gyues," "Gywes," "Giwes," "Geus," "Iuys," "Iows," "Iouis," "Iews," and then, finally, in the 18th century, "Jews."

The history of the development of the term "Jew" does not change the (INTERPRETATION.)

Isaiah 65:15
You will leave your name (Judean=Jew) for my chosen ones to use in their curses; the Sovereign Lord will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name. (Christian)

Your turn!