Jesus: The end and the fulfillment of the Old Testament

[genuineoriginal]

The Bible plainly teaches that, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

The Bible also teaches that if you violate one commandment you are guilty of violating all of them, James 2:10.

Do you use those verses to teach Christians to stop doing good works instead of using these verses to teach Christians to do good works?

Titus 2:7-8 7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, 8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.​

 

[clefty]

The Bible plainly teaches that, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

plainly teaches?...not plainly enough apparently...some here insist there is nothing there to reveal that...that there is not one righteous...no law at all in fact

The Bible also teaches that if you violate one commandment you are guilty of violating all of them, James 2:10.

best then to rid yourself of all of them right? To be lawless...

 

[Robert Pate]

Do you use those verses to teach Christians to stop doing good works instead of using these verses to teach Christians to do good works?

Titus 2:7-8 7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, 8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.​

Christians do good works because they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 2:10.

They do good works out of gratitude for what Christ has done for them.

Christians are not under law, they are under grace.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Christians do good works because they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 2:10.

They do good works out of gratitude for what Christ has done for them.

Christians are not under law, they are under grace.

Christians are under the law of God written in their hearts.

Hebrews 10:16 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;​

 

[Robert Pate]

Christians are under the law of God written in their hearts.

Hebrews 10:16 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;​

The law written on the Christians heart is the Holy Spirit. It is not the same as the written law. The Holy Spirit prompts us to obey and do good works. The written law demands it. Big difference.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The law written on the Christians heart is the Holy Spirit. It is not the same as the written law. The Holy Spirit prompts us to obey and do good works. The written law demands it. Big difference.

The written law does not demand anything.
What non-Biblical books are you getting your ideas from?

 

[john w]

Paul became all things to all men that he might win them to Christ and the gospel. He threw the Sabbath and the law in the dust heap per Galatians and Colossians.

Sure he did:

Acts 18 KJV


21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.


Acts 20 KJV

6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days...............16 For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.


You've not read "the volume of the book," much less studied it, have you Dora? Fess up...release yourself....let go...

 

[Robert Pate]

The written law does not demand anything.
What non-Biblical books are you getting your ideas from?

Exodus 8:27, Exodus 19:7.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The law written on the Christians heart is the Holy Spirit. It is not the same as the written law. The Holy Spirit prompts us to obey and do good works. The written law demands it. Big difference.

The written law does not demand anything.
What non-Biblical books are you getting your ideas from?

Exodus 8:27, Exodus 19:7.

This is a command from God found in the New Testament.

Acts 17:30 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:​

Do you believe this is the same as the written law or is this something new?

 

[clefty]

The law written on the Christians heart is the Holy Spirit. It is not the same as the written law. The Holy Spirit prompts us to obey and do good works. The written law demands it. Big difference.

So there are two sets of laws? making the kingdom an apartheid state of sorts...

The Holy Spirit does NOT lead one to do the Will of Yah? Live and love just as He did?

In the OT faith came first and then because it saved His people always WANTED to keep the Law...out of gratitude for being saved...

Just like now...

and just like then in the OT some people now don’t want to keep the law either...

 

[Robert Pate]

So there are two sets of laws? making the kingdom an apartheid state of sorts...

The Holy Spirit does NOT lead one to do the Will of Yah? Live and love just as He did?

In the OT faith came first and then because it saved His people always WANTED to keep the Law...out of gratitude for being saved...

Just like now...

and just like then in the OT some people now don’t want to keep the law either...

There are not two sets of laws. The law written on the Christians heart is of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit prompts us to do good works. The written law demands it, Ephesians 2:10.

 

[clefty]

There are not two sets of laws. The law written on the Christians heart is of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit prompts us to do good works. The written law demands it, Ephesians 2:10.

Yes exactly...the Holy Spirit prompts us to keep the Law which remains and is exactly the good works created for us to do...given to us from the Father and to do His will...

John 12:48”There is a judge for the one who rejects Me and does not receive My words: The word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49I have not spoken on My own, but the Father who sent Me has commanded Me what to say and how to say it. 50And I know that His command leads to eternal life. So I speak exactly what the Father has told Me to say.”…

Please stop baring false witness with claims there is nothing expected of christians in Him desiring to live as He did...His Way...to do the good works...because of what was done for them

 

[Robert Pate]

Yes exactly...the Holy Spirit prompts us to keep the Law which remains and is exactly the good works created for us to do...given to us from the Father and to do His will...

John 12:48”There is a judge for the one who rejects Me and does not receive My words: The word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49I have not spoken on My own, but the Father who sent Me has commanded Me what to say and how to say it. 50And I know that His command leads to eternal life. So I speak exactly what the Father has told Me to say.”…

Please stop baring false witness with claims there is nothing expected of christians in Him desiring to live as He did...His Way...to do the good works...because of what was done for them

Christians are led by the Holy Spirit, not the law. If you try to be like Jesus it will lead to legalism. The Christian life is lived out of gratitude for what Christ has done for them.

 

[clefty]

Christians are led by the Holy Spirit, not the law.

just like those saved from egypt and then given the Law...its still faith first just like the OT...saved and then out of gratitude live as per instructions

If you try to be like Jesus it will lead to legalism.

yet He Himself instructed “follow me” “love as I have loved you” “keep My commandments” “follow Pharisees teachings” “that do the Will of my Father” Paul instructed “copy me as I copied Christ” “be reborn” into a new life...following Him “if you love me”

The Christian life is lived out of gratitude for what Christ has done for them.

yes feel free to describe that “living out gratitude” Christians do...is it MORE LIKE HIM or more like their former selves?

 

[Robert Pate]

just like those saved from egypt and then given the Law...its still faith first just like the OT...saved and then out of gratitude live as per instructions

yet He Himself instructed “follow me” “love as I have loved you” “keep My commandments” “follow Pharisees teachings” “that do the Will of my Father” Paul instructed “copy me as I copied Christ” “be reborn” into a new life...following Him “if you love me”

yes feel free to describe that “living out gratitude” Christians do...is it MORE LIKE HIM or more like their former selves?

The difference between being led by the law and being led by the Spirit is that the law led have to,

While the Spirit led want to and enjoy doing so. Big, big, difference.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The difference between being led by the law and being led by the Spirit is that the law led have to,

While the Spirit led want to and enjoy doing so. Big, big, difference.

I suppose that those thoughts give you comfort of some sort, but they are not supported by the Bible.

 

[Robert Pate]

I suppose that those thoughts give you comfort of some sort, but they are not supported by the Bible.

You must belong to the church of "I must".

 

[clefty]

The difference between being led by the law and being led by the Spirit is that the law led have to,

While the Spirit led want to and enjoy doing so. Big, big, difference.

Oh sure...exactly...just because the motorist is pulled over he cant claim the law is not binding because some other driver kept it perfectly...nor can he argue the law is over because he is tired of having to keep the law...

You want to drive you should learn to want to keep the law...

Just like I dont do “works” like wash my own dishes in my own kitchen because I HAVE TO...but because I WANT TO...its not a chore but my desire to keep my kitchen nice...

Same with WANTING to keep the Law because we are already saved rather than HAVE to keep it to get saved...big big difference

SPIRIT LED WANTING to keep the Law is a BIG difference from arguing the Law no longer exists for me...

Staying Spirit led will have you WANT to keep the Law...out of gratitude for being saved...

IF YOU LOVE ME...keep my commandments...most Christians really dont love Him...are less like Him than the world...their fruits reveal that...

INDEED...So glad we are in agreement here...big BIG HUGE difference being Spirit led and wanting to keep the Law...BECAUSE we are saved IN HIM Spirit led...

As always the Law remains to point out those who WANT to be with Him and those that dont

 

[john w]

Oh sure...exactly...just because the motorist is pulled over he cant claim the law is not binding because some other driver kept it perfectly...nor can he argue the law is over because he is tired of having to keep the law...

Bingo-I stated as much, but he continues his demonic "logic," that, since someone cannot keep from doing/keeping the law of God, it must be destroyed/abolished/made void.And, unless a law is destroyed, we are under its authority.

The law has not been abolished for you because you are under it and will be judged by it.

Pate: Unless the laws against speeding, rape, murder, adultery.... are abolished/made void, we are all under it, and judged as guilty.

Pate: If the laws of foreign countries are not abolished/destroyed/eliminated/maded void, we are all under it, and will be judged by it.

And he, in demonic drunkenness, corrupts/trashes/butchers the meaning of abolish/destroy/makes void, saying something can be destroyed/abolished for some, un-abolished , un-destroyed, un made void for others.

Demonic moron, spiraling into dementia....Seen it often, in the financial services industry...


That is his demonic "reasoning," from the pits of hell.

Jesus came to abolish the law because we cannot do it.

For eg.:

Pate gets a speeding ticket. He goes to court, and, in front of the judge...



Pate:Judge, I demand that you abolish/destroy the law against speeding. It is not a good law, because I/others cannot keep it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!This law is not for my benefit, or society's-it is contrary to/against me/society!!!!!!!!!! Abolish it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And, if you do not abolish it, it automatically condemns me, judges me, as guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





The judge: No, the laws are good, and are for everyone's benefit, including yours. They are not against you, are not contrary to you, they are not against society, they are not contrary to society, -they stand. The problem is with you/others breaking these good laws, and the debt you/others must pay for these offenses(sins) you committed. That is what is contrary to/against you/others. Pay the fine. The law cannot condemn you, just because it is in place.



Pate: No!!!!! Abolish the law!!!!!!!



The judge: Either pay the fine, or go to jail-the law stands.



Pate: No!!!!The laws are not good-they are the problem, not me!!!!





Benevolent, gracious judge: Tell you what, Pate. Someone just paid your fine/debt/IOU(sin, offense, transgression) on your behalf. Justice is served. You are free to go(Christ died for our sins....paying the sin debt, IOU)



Pate: No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That person need not have paid my fine/debt!!!!!(Christ need not die to pay the sin debt/IOU). The solution is to abolish, destroy, make void, the laws against speeding(fill in the blank), so that we will not have to "do" these laws, obey them, and the solution is not the fine being satisfied(Christ-propitiation)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Benevolent, gracious judge: Lock up this man for dementia, contempt of court, lunacy-put him in a straight jacket.

 

[musterion]

If the death of one can be reckoned to sinners and counted on their behalf, could God not have also reckoned Christ's sinless walk under the Law to sinners as well?

Yes, God could have done that too, but as pointed out far more many times than should be necessary, His doing so would

(a) negate the need for Christ dying, and

(b) all that theorizing aside, the Bible NOWHERE says Christ's sinless life/perfect Law-walk is reckoned to the believer.

Pate made this up.

So how is it that believers are not under Law? Two options, only one of them is right:

According to Paul, God declares the believer as having died with Christ -- and Law has no more claims over those who have died. His death is the point there, not His life.

According to Pate, Christ's perfect lawkeeping is credited to them. His life is the point there, not His death.

Pate made that up too.