Jesus is God.

Nameless.In.Grace

Nameless.In.Grace

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jamie said:
Was Jesus conceived? If so, how?
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The author of all, joined Himself to all by unifying Himself with Humankind.

Not as in knocked up Mary, but as in the Eternal entered the realm of His design.

Um.... To use the term Creation for simplicities sake alone, to convey the idea.

The Creator joined with His creation in physical form as a human child.

Or, the Formless Groom, joined with his Formless Bride (that's humanity) to walk amongst us formlessness with form.

He took that which He created in His likeness to express His very Being in our likeness.

Picture to circles joining like the MasterCard logo. In the center you see where He of timelessness entered time that He could be right in time for His cherished Bride. (Humanity)


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Caino

Caino

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SonOfCaleb said:
Ok you're talking about two different things here whose variance are explained by transliteration. Firstly the name for God as i already explained first occurred in Genesis chapter 2. All Hebrew descendants were familiar with the name. In fact even Job who was described in the Bible as the 'Greatest of all the Orientals [or Easterners] was familiar with the name of God. And Job predated Moses. Thus as i said from the earliest times in mans history mankind was familiar with Gods name. In fact pre-flood Gods name was actually used erroneously for idol worship. Genesis 4:26 "At that time people began calling on the name of Jehovah".

Now as i explained earlier Yahweh or YHWH is the Hebrew rendition of the name. The name Jehovah is the anglicized version of the name which has been commonly used for close to a millennia with the first instances of it in European literature appearing around the 12th Century. Both names mean the same thing. They're just translated differently because of linguistic variances. Hebrew didn't have vowels hence the tetragrammaton (Greek) YHWH. Similar to Arabic the sounds are added into the word by the speaker hence YHWH becomes Yahweh with the a and e added to aid pronunciation in English which uses vowels.

More importantly Jehovah/Yahweh was NOT a nature God. He was worshiped by nomadic tribes as evidenced by Job who was an Arab or 'tent dweller'. But the specific name for God was never ever used in nature worship. Many other Gods existed for that, some under the generic Canaanite name El which simply means god.

The entire OT or Hebrew scriptures wasn't rewritten in Babylon, as many of the books towards the end of the OT such as those by the so called 'Minor Prophets' were written in Judah or Jerusalem after the Jews had returned from captivity in Babylon. The only books written in Babylon in the OT were Daniel and Ezekiel.
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When I say entire old testament from Babylon I mean the books that predate the captivity. The ordinary secular history books mentioned therein didn't survive. I belive the redacted version of the Hebrews history to be a Hollywood type of production intended for the scattered Israelite audience.

Btw, there is the narrative of the God of Abraham getting into a power struggle with Egyptian Gods.
 
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Ben Masada

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Prizebeatz1 said:
How do we justify the idea that Jesus is God when we have the following verse from Luke 18:19? "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone."
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I am sure Jesus had in mind Ecclesiastes 7:20 when he spoke the above. You know, that "there has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned." Jesus was a man upon earth for 33 years of his life and, if you read Matthew 23:13-33 he was not at all without sin. Only in that text he broke the Golden Rule 15 times. The Golden Rule covers the whole second side of the Decalogue. Serious transgression right there, mind you!
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

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Caino said:
God has divine children. Yahweh was the name of God the Israelites settled on, there were other names before that. In fact there is an indication that the early Bible characters believed other Gods existed, they just believed theirs to be superior.

And Elia, the scriptures were written by holy men. Later generations claimed it was God in order to control people. A false sense of sacredness of the scripture have prevented people from using just a little common sense.
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YHWH (Jehovah) is STILL the name of God. Jesus prayed to the Father and said, "YOUR WORD is truth." (John 17:17) That meant all of the Tanakh, or, the Old Testament. That was the whole Bible in his day. He taught that we must love Jehovah with our whole souls, and he quoted the O.T. at Deuteronomy 6:5 and 10:12. The name of God, in the form of the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) appears in those scriptures. So Jesus was telling us that we must love Jehovah, our God.

The Israelites didn't choose God's name. He told them his name and inspired it to be written down around 7,000 times in the Tanakh. There were no other names for God before YHWH.
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

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Caino said:
When I say entire old testament from Babylon I mean the books that predate the captivity. The ordinary secular history books mentioned therein didn't survive. I belive the redacted version of the Hebrews history to be a Hollywood type of production intended for the scattered Israelite audience.

Btw, there is the narrative of the God of Abraham getting into a power struggle with Egyptian Gods.
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Power STRUGGLE? If you're insinuating that Jehovah and the Egyptian gods were just about equal in power, you misunderstand. Jehovah caused the Ten Plagues to show that the gods of Egypt had NO power at all.
 
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SonOfCaleb

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Caino said:
When I say entire old testament from Babylon I mean the books that predate the captivity. The ordinary secular history books mentioned therein didn't survive. I belive the redacted version of the Hebrews history to be a Hollywood type of production intended for the scattered Israelite audience.

Btw, there is the narrative of the God of Abraham getting into a power struggle with Egyptian Gods.
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Im not sure what sources you're using but the first five books the Torah or Pentateuch existed before and after the Jews left Babylon. Those same books were used to re-establish worship in Jerusalem when King Cyrus allowed the Jews to return home.

Whats this narrative you're referring to?
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

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Ben Masada said:
I am sure Jesus had in mind Ecclesiastes 7:20 when he spoke the above. You know, that "there has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned." Jesus was a man upon earth for 33 years of his life and, if you read Matthew 23:13-33 he was not at all without sin. Only in that text he broke the Golden Rule 15 times. The Golden Rule covers the whole second side of the Decalogue. Serious transgression right there, mind you!
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Contrarily, Jesus had in mind that the only One who embodies perfect goodness is the One he himself called "the only true God," (John 17:3) the Father, Jehovah. Jesus believed that the Father was the only One who could even define "good."

And he never broke the Law. The Jewish religious leaders had their OWN rules, and they misrepresented what Jehovah's rules were. It was their rules that Jesus "transgressed."

He said to them: "Why is it you also overstep the commandment of God because of your tradition?...You have made the word of God invalid because of your tradition. You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said, 'This people honors me [YHWH] with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.'" (Matthew 15:3,6-9)

Did YHWH ever command the people to wash their hands all the way up to their elbows? No! Yet the Pharisees scolded Jesus and his disciples for not doing so. That's just one example.
 
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SonOfCaleb

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KingdomRose said:
Power STRUGGLE? If you're insinuating that Jehovah and the Egyptian gods were just about equal in power, you misunderstand. Jehovah caused the Ten Plagues to show that the gods of Egypt had NO power at all.
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Indeed. The impotent gods of No-Amon could do nothing to prevent the destruction of No.

Ezekiel 30:14-15 "I will desolate Pathʹros+ and set a fire in Zoʹan and execute judgment on No.* 15 I will pour out my rage on Sin, the stronghold of Egypt, and destroy the population of No.
 
Apple7

Apple7

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Prizebeatz1 said:
Yes Jesus was divine but we often are so focused on this that we fail to see our own divinity. The adversary loves this recipe because it blinds us. We cannot see our own infinite value and worth because we are turned around looking for it somewhere else other than where it is which is inside us. We grab and reach and try to replace our self-worth with Jesus' divinity instead. It cannot be done no matter how hard we try because it is not Jesus' worth that will satisfy our desires but our own.
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What scripture do you use to think yourself divine?
 
Apple7

Apple7

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KingdomRose said:
(1) And what are they?

(2) Also how can your so-called repeated claims to divinity harmonize with the following scriptures?

John 5:19 & 30

John 6:38

John 8:28,29

John 12:49,50

John 14:24 & 28

John 17:3

John 20:17
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A name and a number is all you have?

Defend each.
 
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Ben Masada

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KingdomRose said:
Contrarily, Jesus had in mind that the only One who embodies perfect goodness is the One he himself called "the only true God," (John 17:3) the Father, Jehovah. Jesus believed that the Father was the only One who could even define "good."

And he never broke the Law. The Jewish religious leaders had their OWN rules, and they misrepresented what Jehovah's rules were. It was their rules that Jesus "transgressed."

He said to them: "Why is it you also overstep the commandment of God because of your tradition?...You have made the word of God invalid because of your tradition. You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said, 'This people honors me [YHWH] with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.'" (Matthew 15:3,6-9)

Did YHWH ever command the people to wash their hands all the way up to their elbows? No! Yet the Pharisees scolded Jesus and his disciples for not doing so. That's just one example.
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Rose, do you have any idea about the Golden Rule? That's the Law Jesus is claimed to have transgressed in Mat. 23:13-33. It states not to do unto others what we would not like they did unto ourselves. Do you think Jesus would have liked to be addressed as a hypocrite and brood of vipers? I don't think so. So, he broke the Golden Rule for about 15 times in that text. The Golden Rule covers the whole second part of the Decalogue. If you want to defend Jesus, do not deny the meaning of the Golden Rule because it won't mean a thing to me. Now, if you rather deny Mat. 23:13-33 as a forgery to promote the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology, I may agree with you.
 
dodge

dodge

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Ben Masada said:
Rose, do you have any idea about the Golden Rule? That's the Law Jesus is claimed to have transgressed in Mat. 23:13-33. It states not to do unto others what we would not like they did unto ourselves. Do you think Jesus would have liked to be addressed as a hypocrite and brood of vipers? I don't think so. So, he broke the Golden Rule for about 15 times in that text. The Golden Rule covers the whole second part of the Decalogue. If you want to defend Jesus, do not deny the meaning of the Golden Rule because it won't mean a thing to me. Now, if you rather deny Mat. 23:13-33 as a forgery to promote the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology, I may agree with you.
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Jesus told the TRUTH ;therefore, no transgression was made.
 
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