ISRAEL IS THE FOCAL POINT OF THE BELIEVERS

God's Truth

God's Truth

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Epo says we get a circumcised heart by NOT OBEYING and by being convicted.

Now if anyone has any eyes for the Lord, tell me, is that reasonable to you?
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
intojoy said:
The Remnant refers to the Remnant of believing Jews of which all of the apostles are members.

You seem to have an inconsistency.

If you recognize a difference between Israel and the church then how is it that you can call Israel the church in the Old Testament and the church Israel in the New Testament?

This is inconsistent unless you are a student of John MacArthur. Which is it?


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I reread my previous post(s) which answers what you're asking about Rom. 11:5

No, I have no inconsistency.

No, I don't follow MacArthur.


The Israel of God promised Salvation Is. 45:17 is all of the Seed of Abraham, The Seed of Christ Eph. 1:4; 2 Tim. 1:9 which He gave His Life for Heb. 2:16; Gal. 3:16 whether jew or Gentile.


Rev. 14:6
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people


All nations Gal. 3:8; All families of the earth Gen. 12:2-3.


It's a Chosen mystical or Spiritual People Deut. 7:6-7; 2 Thes. 2:13 that God promised to save Acts 13:23. The same exclusive People which Christ came to Save Mat. 1:21!

~~~~~
 
intojoy

intojoy

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Nanja said:
I reread my previous post(s) which answers what you're asking about Rom. 11:5

No, I have no inconsistency.

No, I don't follow MacArthur.


The Israel of God promised Salvation Is. 45:17 is all of the Seed of Abraham, The Seed of Christ Eph. 1:4; 2 Tim. 1:9 which He gave His Life for Heb. 2:16; Gal. 3:16 whether jew or Gentile.


Rev. 14:6
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people


All nations Gal. 3:8; All families of the earth Gen. 12:2-3.


It's a Chosen mystical or Spiritual People Deut. 7:6-7; 2 Thes. 2:13 that God promised to save Acts 13:23. The same exclusive People which Christ came to Save Mat. 1:21!

~~~~~
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B'sd


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intojoy

intojoy

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Nanja said:
I reread my previous post(s) which answers what you're asking about Rom. 11:5

No, I have no inconsistency.

No, I don't follow MacArthur.


The Israel of God promised Salvation Is. 45:17 is all of the Seed of Abraham, The Seed of Christ Eph. 1:4; 2 Tim. 1:9 which He gave His Life for Heb. 2:16; Gal. 3:16 whether jew or Gentile.


Rev. 14:6
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people


All nations Gal. 3:8; All families of the earth Gen. 12:2-3.


It's a Chosen mystical or Spiritual People Deut. 7:6-7; 2 Thes. 2:13 that God promised to save Acts 13:23. The same exclusive People which Christ came to Save Mat. 1:21!

~~~~~
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Then why did you separate earthy national Israel from the spiritual churc/Israel? You're guilty of intellectual dishonesty


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L

Lazy afternoon

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LIFETIME MEMBER
northwye said:
"Salvation has nothing to do with being a jew by ethnicity, but by being a True Jew; one whose heart is circumcised Rom. 2:29; Ezek. 36:26-27."

"The same are the True Israel of God which was Promised Salvation Is. 45:17 : All of the Election of Grace Eph. 1:4-11; 2 Tim. 1:9!"

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God."
Galatians 6 16

Galatians 6: 16 is too subtle for those who are in the spiritual condition of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14 to understand - and who have been taught that Israel must always mean Old Covenant Israel.

Remember that in Romans 9: 8 Paul said that "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

And in I Corinthians 10: 18 he says "Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the alter?"

Israel of the flesh are not the children of God. In Galatians 6: 16 Paul is talking about the Israel which is of God, and not just of the flesh. He assumes you can remember what he said about Israel of he flesh in Romans 9: 8 when reading Galatians 6: 16.

Look at II Corinthians 3: 6-11: "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8. How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."

This is a little subtle too. But he starts by saying that God made the Apostles ministers of the Spirit, and not of the letter. Then he talks about the ministration of death, and since this whole text is about the New Testament or New Covenant in contrast to the Old Covenant, the ministration of death is the Old Covenant. He says, on the other hand that the ministration of the Spirit is glorious, and calls the Old Covenant the ministration of condemnation, and says in verse 11 that it was done away. Nowhere does he mention the church.

Galatians 4:24-26 also contrasts the New Covenant to the Old Covenant: "Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

There is nothing about the church here either.

Jeremiah 18: 3-6 "Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
4. And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
5. Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
6. O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel."

II Kings 21: 13 anticipates Jeremiah 18: 1-6, in saying "And I will stretch over Jerusalem the line of Samaria, and the plummet of the house of Ahab: and I will wipe Jerusalem as a man wipeth a dish, wiping it, and turning it upside down."

And so does Isaiah 29: 16, "Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?"

Then, in the New Testament, I Peter 2: 5 says "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

Old Covenant Israel was remade by God into a spiritual house. Paul calls that spiritual house the Israel of God in Galatians 6: 16, and Jerusalem which is above, is free and is the mother of us all (all the elect)in Galatians 4: 26.

The Israel of the New Covenant is referred to as the ekklesia many texts of the New Testament, but it is still the Israel of God, still Israel, but remade into a spiritual house. Ekklesia Strong;s number 1577, "A calling out, i.e, a popular meeting,especially a religious congregation...assembly, church."

See: http://www.acu.edu/sponsored/restora...ents/ward.html

"The most common classical usage of ekklesia and its cognates was as a political term, meaning an assembly of citizens. In the Greek city-state the citizens were called forth by the trumpet of the kerux (herald) summoning them to the ekklesia (assembly).........It should be noted that in ordinary usage, ekklesia meant the assembly, and not the body of people involved."

In ekklesia meaning a calling out, its original meaning was a calling out of the people to a meeting or assembly.

Ekklesia is a common noun, while Israel is a proper noun, a one of a kind thing.
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First class.

LA
 
PneumaPsucheSoma

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
intojoy said:
Don't worry about it


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Figures. None of you rattletraps have a clue about anything. Myopic peddlers of psychological phenomena that has nothing whatsoever to do with the spiritual.

Dispensationalists. Greedy vicarious land barons. Extreme bigoted racists. Deluded by 19th-century fallacy and fantasy.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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PneumaPsucheSoma said:
Figures. None of you rattletraps have a clue about anything. Myopic peddlers of psychological phenomena that has nothing whatsoever to do with the spiritual.

Dispensationalists. Greedy vicarious land barons. Extreme bigoted racists. Deluded by 19th-century fallacy and fantasy.
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You have become wise in your own conceit
 
intojoy

intojoy

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PneumaPsucheSoma said:
Figures. None of you rattletraps have a clue about anything. Myopic peddlers of psychological phenomena that has nothing whatsoever to do with the spiritual.

Dispensationalists. Greedy vicarious land barons. Extreme bigoted racists. Deluded by 19th-century fallacy and fantasy.
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Hehe served


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Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
intojoy said:
Then why did you separate earthy national Israel from the spiritual churc/Israel? You're guilty of intellectual dishonesty


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How did you come to that conclusion?

The Church chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4; 2 Tim. 1:9 which Christ died for Eph. 5:25 is the Israel that God has promised Salvation Is. 45:17. They're one and the same!

~~~~~
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

New member
In response to Jamie's post #6:


Yes, really. It is the most commonly known version of the Divine Name. It doesn't matter exactly how it is supposed to be pronounced. A person could just say the Hebrew letters (YHWH, or, "Yohdh-He-Waw-He") and that would be fine.

If you object to "Jehovah," then you should object to "Jesus" also. Give me a break.
 
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