Is M.A.D. a dangerous heresy? It demands much scripture to be ignored

[jamie]

You can keep trying to push the NEW CREATURE back into Israel's past. But you will be unsuccessful.

Paul explained that those who do not have Christ's Spirit are not his. However, Christ's body drank of the Spirit that followed them.

For He said, “Surely they are My people,
Children who will not lie.”
So He became their Savior.
In all their affliction He was afflicted,
And the Angel of His Presence saved them;
In His love and in His pity He redeemed them;
And He bore them and carried them
All the days of old.
But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit;
So He turned Himself against them as an enemy,
And He fought against them.
Then he remembered the days of old,
Moses and his people, saying:
“Where is He who brought them up out of the sea
With the shepherd of His flock?
Where is He who put His Holy Spirit within them...(Isaiah 63:8-11)​

Those with the Holy Spirit were Christ's body, they belonged to Christ.

 

[Right Divider]

You asked for chapter and verse of my comment about Jesus saying the flesh profits nothing. The rest of what Jesus said is commentary.

WOW!!!!

First, you MISREPRESENT the Bible and NOW you belittle the remainder of the verse as "commentary"!!!!

The remainder of the verse is the MEANING of what Jesus as saying!

You've really hit rock bottom jamie.

SHAMEFUL!!!

 

[Right Divider]

Paul explained that those who do not have Christ's Spirit are not his. However, Christ's body drank of the Spirit that followed them.

For He said, “Surely they are My people,
Children who will not lie.”
So He became their Savior.
In all their affliction He was afflicted,
And the Angel of His Presence saved them;
In His love and in His pity He redeemed them;
And He bore them and carried them
All the days of old.
But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit;
So He turned Himself against them as an enemy,
And He fought against them.
Then he remembered the days of old,
Moses and his people, saying:
“Where is He who brought them up out of the sea
With the shepherd of His flock?
Where is He who put His Holy Spirit within them...(Isaiah 63:8-11)​

Those with the Holy Spirit were Christ's body, they belonged to Christ.

You're inventing novel solutions to your problem.

 

[jamie]

You're inventing novel solutions to your problem.

I don't have a problem. I see through the MAD heresy.

:cow:

 

[Right Divider]

I don't have a problem. I see through the MAD heresy.

:cow:

You're a confused and proven scripture abuser. You have NO place "spotting heresy".

 

[Lighthouse]

Either English wasn't your strong suit or you're being purposefully deceptive.

Not only is it my first language, but I'm one of those people that gets called a "Grammar Nazi" sometimes. And my reading and comprehension skills were rewarded in school. I even tested at nine grade levels above my grade.

I'll break it down for you:

Romans 16:25-26
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which (mystery) was kept secret since the world began, but (the mystery) now is made manifest, and (the mystery) BY THE SCRIPTURES OF THE PROPHETS, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

"And by" in this verse is saying "the mystery is made known by the scriptures of the prophets".

No it isn't, because that would be completely illogical in light of the fact that the same passage also says [prior to any mention of the prophets] that he mystery was kept hidden and is now made manifest [not manifest before now]. You are arguing that the passage contradicts itself.

Here's another version that may help you:

But now as the prophets foretold and as the eternal God has commanded, this message is made known to all Gentiles everywhere, so that they too might believe and obey him. (NLT)

At best this version is saying the prophets foretold that a mystery would be revealed, not that the prophets revealed the mystery.

Here you go: the original Greek.

δε δυναμενω υμας στηριξαι κατα το ευαγγελιον μου και το κηρυγμα ιησου χριστου κατα αποκαλυψιν μυστηριου χρονοις αιωνιοις σεσιγημενου φανερωθεντος δε νυν δια τε γραφων προφητικων κατ επιταγην του αιωνιου θεου εις υπακοην πιστεως εις παντα τα εθνη γνωρισθεντος

Exegete this, please.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No it isn't, because that would be completely illogical in light of the fact that the same passage also says [prior to any mention of the prophets] that he mystery was kept hidden and is now made manifest [not manifest before now]. You are arguing that the passage contradicts itself.

You are right and here is a verse which makes it plain:

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints" (Col.1:25-26).

 

[jamie]

In Ephesians 3:1-7 Paul says, "For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles — if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs of the same body and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power."

The word dispensation is referring to the administration of the grace of God. Paul explained there were many differences of administrations.

And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. (1 Corinthians 12:5 KJV)​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. (1 Corinthians 12:5 KJV)​

Yes, there are more than one administration or dispensations (stewardships) but at the time when Paul wrote those words there was but one administration in force.

And that adminstration or dispensation was given to Paul first and his responsibility under that dispensation was to preach the gospel of grace. Here are three quotes from the pen of Paul where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you" (Eph. 3:2).

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).

"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" (1 Cor.9:17).

The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).

In Bibliotheca Sacra, a journal published by Dallas Theological Seminary, Roy L. Aldrich quotes these three verses (Eph.3:2; Col.1:25; 1 Cor.9:17) and then says, "These passages use the word 'dispensation' (or 'stewardship') to describe the sacred commission or trust to preach the gospel" [emphasis added] (Aldrich, "A New Look at Dispensationalism," Bibliotheca Sacra, January-March, 1963, Vol.120, Number 477, p.43).

There can be no doubt whatsoever that the event which marks the beginning of the "dispensation of grace" is the preaching of the "gospel of grace." And Paul was the first to preach the gospel of grace so therefore it is impossible that the present dispensation began before Paul was converted.

 

[jamie]

There can be no doubt whatsoever that the event which marks the beginning of the "dispensation of grace" is the preaching of the "gospel of grace." And Paul was the first to preach the gospel of grace so therefore it is impossible that the present dispensation began before Paul was converted.

And before the "dispensation of grace" did anyone receive salvation? Or was God waiting on Paul before salvation by grace could begin. Since Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles did anyone other than Gentiles receive salvation or was grace for Gentiles only?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

There can be no doubt whatsoever that the event which marks the beginning of the "dispensation of grace" is the preaching of the "gospel of grace." And Paul was the first to preach the gospel of grace so therefore it is impossible that the present dispensation began before Paul was converted.

You are saying Paul was not saved under the gospel of grace.

LA

 

[Lighthouse]

The word dispensation is referring to the administration of the grace of God. Paul explained there were many differences of administrations.

And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. (1 Corinthians 12:5 KJV)​

Yep

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You are saying Paul was not saved under the gospel of grace.

No one was preaching the gospel of grace when Paul was saved.

He was saved on the road to Damascus when he believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And belief in those facts result in salvation (Jn.20:30-31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And before the "dispensation of grace" did anyone receive salvation? Or was God waiting on Paul before salvation by grace could begin. Since Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles did anyone other than Gentiles receive salvation or was grace for Gentiles only?

Men have been saved throughout time by grace through faith. Just because grace was not preached prior to Paul does not mean that no one was saved prior to that time by grace. In fact, prior to the preaching of the gospel ofgrace men were saved by faith through grace for believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (Jn.20:30-31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).

 

[Lazy afternoon]

No one was preaching the gospel of grace when Paul was saved.

He was saved on the road to Damascus when he believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And belief in those facts result in salvation (Jn.20:30-31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).

Paul well knew the gospel of grace from the lips of the Christians he persecuted.

LA

L

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Paul well knew the gospel of grace from the lips of the Christians he persecuted.

Where in the Bible do we read that?

 

[Right Divider]

Where in the Bible do we read that?

That is exactly what I was thinking.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Paul well knew the gospel of grace from the lips of the Christians he persecuted.

LA

L

:chuckle:

 

[Right Divider]

:chuckle:

That is particularly funny considering that the disciples were first called Christians under Paul's ministry (per Acts 11:26).

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

That is particularly funny considering that the disciples were first called Christians under Paul's ministry (per Acts 11:26).

Yep, what do you expect from LA though...