Is calling Beanieboy a . . .

[Aimiel]

I also hate political correctness but the reason why I have a problem with calling homosexuals faggots has nothing to do with political correctness. The term faggot is a demeaning and derogatory term that has no benefit whatsoever.

People in this thread talk as if the sin of homosexuality is any worse than the rest. It's not. It is a sin just like the ones we all deal with.

I voted against it, as well, for the same reason. We aren't elitists, we're Christians. We're no better than anyone else, merely forgiven. I don't believe that someone who is an adulterer or serial killer is a Christian, just as I don't believe a queer is a Christian. They are mutually exclusive. A Christian who sins, willingly, is in need of repentance, not pretend faith which allows the sin to continue un-checked. That includes all sin.

 

[On Fire]

I voted against it, as well, for the same reason. We aren't elitists, we're Christians. We're no better than anyone else, merely forgiven. I don't believe that someone who is an adulterer or serial killer is a Christian, just as I don't believe a queer is a Christian. They are mutually exclusive. A Christian who sins, willingly, is in need of repentance, not pretend faith which allows the sin to continue un-checked. That includes all sin.

Well said.

 

[beanieboy]

I have said this before, but it is worth repeating.

Calling someone a faggot rarely gets a response from a homosexual that they should really rethink, and
consider what the person is saying.

One of the reasons is that non-christians call homosexuals faggots. In college, a guy once said, "I wish that I could line them all up and shoot them." Now, if you are christian, and still feel the same way, you assuage guilt by pointing to Lev, and then saying that the government should execute them.
You use the same language, but justify it. "I'm saying it to be helpful. I'm saying it out of love. I'm saying it because God also hates workers of wickedness."

But the result that I have seen from most people that are gay is that they see Christianity as a sham - that they say they love God, but express hatred and murder.

Elijah mocked the worshippers of Baal - and then killed them all.
Can you imagine witnessing to someone, and telling them that they are worshipping a false God, and that were it legal, you would kill them?

Does that sound like a religion that you would want to join?

The more conservative christians, who talk about the Laws of Moses, while ignoring the Gospel and the compassion of Christ, do more to turn people away from God than turn people toward him.

And that is how I imagine the true agents of evil - working from within the church to make God seem like an ogre of conditional love and unmerciful, and make a mockery of religion to the point that when people say that they are christian, others cringe. It's working very well so far, and that is the biggest tragedy. I never see that reaction to anyone identifying as Hindu, Muslim, or Jew.

People were drawn to Christ - even the "sinners" - the lowliest people.

I don't see that draw anymore. One argues that people "don't want to know the truth," or "are in love with their sin." I believe it is because the hypocracy of Christianity from within, and the abusive behavior that is very human (lack of self control, pride, foul language) that simply makes people think that Christians are no more than blind guides.

This can't be said of all Christians, but those that are the worst examples have their own TV shows, radio shows, and are the squeakiest of wheels.

 

[Aimiel]

Too true. The 'remnant' are those who seek God, and they are far and few between.

 

[beanieboy]

Too true. The 'remnant' are those who seek God, and they are far and few between.

I've always thought of God as a dandelion. It pops up even in the cracks of sidewalks. Its roots run deep. And it dies, and seeds are moved as far as the wind will take them, making hundreds more.

So, even when people turn others off of God because of their abusive behavior, God still finds a place to grow within each of us.

 

[Aimiel]

I've often found that The Seed of The Word of God is even able to fall upon solid rock (stubborn and obstinate individuals) and change it into 'good soil.'

 

[beanieboy]

I've often found that The Seed of The Word of God is even able to fall upon solid rock (stubborn and obstinate individuals) and change it into 'good soil.'

completely agree.

look at paul...

 

[Aimiel]

I was thinking of a certain Buddhist...

 

[kmoney]

I voted against it, as well, for the same reason. We aren't elitists, we're Christians. We're no better than anyone else, merely forgiven. I don't believe that someone who is an adulterer or serial killer is a Christian, just as I don't believe a queer is a Christian. They are mutually exclusive. A Christian who sins, willingly, is in need of repentance, not pretend faith which allows the sin to continue un-checked. That includes all sin.

I agree. Except I ask this, you said....

I don't believe that someone who is an adulterer or serial killer is a Christian, just as I don't believe a queer is a Christian.

I'm not sure if I'm interpreting this correctly....Are you saying that if a Christian commits adultery or murder or an act of homosexuality he/she loses their salvation? Or are you saying that a homosexual can't become a Christian if they don't become straight first? I ABSOLUTELY agree that if a Christian is in sin they must repent. I would never support what you said in the last setence..."...allows the sin to continue un-checked" But I'm just not completely sure what you're trying to say with the setence I quoted and the "mutually exclusive" part. I know what mutually exclusive means, but are you saying that if a Christian commits one of those sins he/she loses their salvation and must be born again again? Or are you simply saying they need to repent?

Kevin

 

[Aimiel]

They need to repent. If they are maintaining their sin, and professing Christianity, they are liars.

 

[kmoney]

They need to repent. If they are maintaining their sin, and professing Christianity, they are liars.

I fully agree.

 

[kmoney]

Hi, kmoney.
Don't worry. I have a thick skin. Sinners use the word faggot as well, so when the saved do, I see them as basically the same group of people. People like to criticize, cut each other down, curse one another. It's human nature. The "tough love" that Jesus calls for is to return evil with goodness, to bless those who curse you. Many posters will justify that Jesus called people names, so they can do, nyah!! But that is a spiritually immature attitude. As a buddhist, I am to feel compassion for all, even my enemies, and so, I try to show as much self restraint and patience towards others as I can.

You will probably be attacked on a thread in the future. Prepare yourself for it. There is a group mentality that you have to resist, and when you do, you get attacked, but for the most part, it is more bark than bite.

Lastly, thank you for your concern about me being homosexual, but I have struggled with this since my mid teens, and laid awake for hours, staring at the ceiling, wondering why I was feeling this way. I turned to the bible, I went to counceling, I faced suicide on a number of occassions. And I made it through.

But if you really care, go to a place like www.whosoever.org, and read up on the whole site. It speaks of all of the verses in the bible and research done on them (who was speaking, the translation, who was being spoken to, etc.) I found that the bible wasn't saying what people said it was. (Don't you think it odd that people only use 2 verses of Leviticus, and dismiss the rest?) The site gives accounts of people and their conflicts with being gay and seeking God. (Yes, that's right - gay and christian! Being "gay" doesn't mean you are sexually active. It is how you are attracted.) It gives very uplifting sermons.

In short, it offers hope instead of doom, encouragement instead of threat.
And shouldn't the Good News be, well, Good?

May God bless you and your friend. My apologies to you for some of the things you are about to witness here on TOL, but take comfort in God, and listen, and learn from the mistakes of others.

Namaste

Beanieboy,

(Yes, that's right - gay and christian!

I believe you can become a Christian while being gay, BUT I believe you must then repent of the sin and work to be freed from it.

Being "gay" doesn't mean you are sexually active. It is how you are attracted

I agree, anyone can have sex with the same sex but it doesn't make them a homosexual. But, are you saying that you can be Christian and gay if you just don't act on your homosexual desires? I believe that you don't have to only NOT ACT out your desires, I believe God can free you entirely from those desires so you don't have to hold them down. It is the same as people being freed from other forms of lust.

Kevin

 

[Agape4Robin]

Beanieboy,

I believe you can become a Christian while being gay, BUT I believe you must then repent of the sin and work to be freed from it.

I agree, anyone can have sex with the same sex but it doesn't make them a homosexual. But, are you saying that you can be Christian and gay if you just don't act on your homosexual desires? I believe that you don't have to only NOT ACT out your desires, I believe God can free you entirely from those desires so you don't have to hold them down. It is the same as people being freed from other forms of lust.

Kevin

I agree. The only way that homosexuality is "who you are", is because of the fallen nature of man and it is a sin. A sin that tempts and appeals to some more than others. Like other forms of sin, what tempts one person, may not appeal to another.

 

[JoyfulRook]

I agree, anyone can have sex with the same sex but it doesn't make them a homosexual.

Actually it does. If you engage in Homosexual sex you are a homosexual.

 

[kmoney]

Actually it does. If you engage in Homosexual sex you are a homosexual.

So a person who is sexually attracted to the same sex but doesn't act on it isn't a homosexual?

 

[kmoney]

I agree. The only way that homosexuality is "who you are", is because of the fallen nature of man and it is a sin. A sin that tempts and appeals to some more than others. Like other forms of sin, what tempts one person, may not appeal to another.

I agree back at ya.

 

[Lighthouse]

What name did he call the woman caught in adultery?

I thought I was on ignore...

 

[Lighthouse]

You are correct, I didn't take into accout that Jesus didn't have the authority to setence her. But let's say the woman was brought to the law in a proper manner, do you think Jesus would have supported her death? Would Jesus have supported it if the proper authorities had sentenced her to death? or if the Romans did allow the Jews to exercise their laws? I still say he wouldn't have though it's impossible to know for sure.

He would have. If you read the rest of the Bible it is impossible to not know. Jesus was living under the Mosaic law. A law given by Him, for He is God. He would support the adherence to that law.

You say Jesus called people names. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think He only did so to the Pharisees. That was an isolated group of people. AND, I would say that Jesus' heart in that is different from people who use the term faggot. Jesus didn't resort to name-calling right away. There were many occasions that Jesus didn't call the Pharisees names. But they were constantly trying to trap him and arrest him. They were prideful and legalistic and feared Jesus because of the impact he was having. They were denying the son of God.

Okay, you're wrong. Consider yourself corrected.

Jesus rebuked anyone who was so proud as to think they were not in need of Him.

Here's something to think about: The theif on the cross who asked Jesus to remember him was welcomed into paradise. The thief who cursed Him was not. The thief that was repentant rebuked the one who wasn't.

And I don't suggest resorting to name-calling right away. Only when the wicked persist in arrogance and selfishness. I know some homosexuals that I wouldn't call faggot, because they are humble, and not proud of their wickedness. They seek God in repentance, knowing that He did not create them to be that way.

The only other instance where you could maybe say Jesus name-called was when he said the disciples were faithless again he wasn't just demeaning them.

What about when He basically called the Syro-Phoniecian woman a dog?:think:

 

[Lighthouse]

So a person who is sexually attracted to the same sex but doesn't act on it isn't a homosexual?

That's not what he said. He said that anyone who commits a homosexual act is a homosexual.

Why would they commit the act if they did not want to? If they were not attracted to people of the same gender?

Of course, a man who finds women attractive, but does not sleep with someone he is not married to is not a fornicator, or adulterer, is he?

 

[kmoney]

That's not what he said. He said that anyone who commits a homosexual act is a homosexual.

Why would they commit the act if they did not want to? If they were not attracted to people of the same gender?

Of course, a man who finds women attractive, but does not sleep with someone he is not married to is not a fornicator, or adulterer, is he?

yeah, I was just being very technical and splitting hairs. I agree that someone wouldn't commit the act unless they wanted to. BUT, I was just trying to point out that I believe it is possible for a heterosexual to commit a homosexual act while not being a homosexual. Like I said, I was just being technical.

Of course, a man who finds women attractive, but does not sleep with someone he is not married to is not a fornicator, or adulterer, is he?[/

If it is simply a physical attraction than no, but if he lusted and thought about it than yes. What does Jesus say? He says that if you lust after her than you are guilty of adultery

Kevin