If you are an "OTHER" you are not my brother

[Right Divider]

Learn to read if you are worried about "aberrant beliefs" hiding behind labels. If only you could read no one could pull the wool over your virgin eyes no matter how hard they try. Oh, those evil apples who poisoned our orange brother so long ago. By the way YOU are not an apple pretending to be an orange are you? :think:

:sherlock: Watching you from here on out . . .

I didn't start the thread and I have NO problem spotting aberrant doctrine which is unbiblical.

Though I did not completely understand your other post, the fact that you felt the need to mix Greek and English shows me enough to know that you have some strange ideas. That's how you made the list.

 

[freelight]

truth for you...........

truth for you...........

The topic for this thread was not "should we treat every nice".

You are doing what is called "mixing apples and oranges".

Welcome to the club.

Pate was concerned about people hiding their aberrant beliefs behind a "label" 'other'.

Addressed him here.

I will add more to a particular part of his OP -

We who are Christians are at a dis-adavantage with these "others". We have no way on knowing what they believe. It is not fair to the Christians on this Forum to use "Other" to identfy yourself.

Again, for those hard of hearing.....Knight gave the category "Other" for those who do not feel like using any of the labels available, although they may be close to some of those catagories or share a mix of them. That's why I asked Knight to give us more options as I shared earlier. Is that too difficult to understand? If we are ONLY given 'Other' as an 'umbrella-label' since there are not any catagories available to choose that we would pick, then that's not our fault,....its the only 'fall-back' option to choose.

I could just as well pick 'Pagan' or 'Hindu', and I have before, and tossle with the best Christian apologists here, holding my own. Your particular religious tradition has no monopoly on truth. I would call you to address the ideas, concepts, principles, themes being discussed, not one's name-tag.

As far as your assumption that 'Other' folks are using that label to hide(???) aberrant beliefs,..I find that somewhat ridiculous....since they are not masquerading under the appellation of 'Christian', like some here might be doing. Perhaps you should be complaining that some 'identifying' as 'Christian' are not really 'Christians' so should pick some 'other' category,...would that make you happy? - again,....there are different definitions/versions of 'Christianity', so you have a mixed fruit basket there, unless you're holding to a strict form of traditional-orthodox creedal Christianity with all its specific terms and technology.

I address the thread title 'assumption' again. Using the example of ANYONE choosing to use the label 'Other' (for their own personal reasons) as NOT being your 'brother' is rather juvenile (to be kind).

 

[freelight]

Nice post, ehem, brother . . .

And thanks for the info concerning the origins of the title "other" as to how it came about. And for the Paulines herein this might just be the Lukan-Pauline perspective on the brotherhood of man:

Acts 17:24-29 KJV
24. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25. Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26.And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27. That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28. For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

And Paul says this to, ehem, "non-believers" at Areion-Pagon, (Areopagus). :chuckle:

Aumen brother

Paul quotes from greek and pagan poets or philosophers, since universal truths are not the sole property of any one person, cult-ure or religious tradition. We are all the offspring of God.

 

[patrick jane]

Nice post, ehem, brother . . .

And thanks for the info concerning the origins of the title "other" as to how it came about. And for the Paulines herein this might just be the Lukan-Pauline perspective on the brotherhood of man:

Acts 17:24-29 KJV
24. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25. Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26.And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27. That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28. For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

And Paul says this to, ehem, "non-believers" at Areion-Pagon, (Areopagus). :chuckle:

wouldn't you think that when Paul spoke to "non-believers" he was convincing them to believe, while at the same time there were believers mixed within the "non-believers" ?

 

[daqq]

wouldn't you think that when Paul spoke to "non-believers" he was convincing them to believe, while at the same time there were believers mixed within the "non-believers" ?

It seems that according to the first chapter of Romans every person is essentially a "believer" on the inside but the question then becomes who is willing to confess and admit it when such a one actually hears the truth? Thus Paul relates to these "unbelievers" by way of an "unknown God" which they had made some sort of monument to, "just in case", and proceeds to expound the Creator of the universe by way of this door having been opened unto him. In the allegory of the wheat and the tares then, once again, the tares are growing up with the wheat, that is, the "believer", but the tares are whatsoever causes unbelief, including and especially doctrine, (every devil has its doctrine). The fields are the mind, eyes, and thoughts of the heart and mind of the man; the war is between the spiritual-supernal and the flesh minded carnal man whose god is his belly because he walks like the serpent from the beginning, and like Esau, according to his belly, (Esau man will trade his birthright for a bowl of soup). We wrestle not with flesh and blood and we war in the high places of the field:

Judges 5:12-21
12. Awake, awake, Deborah: awake, awake, utter a song: arise, Barak, and lead thy captivity captive, thou son of Abinoam.
13. Then he made him that remaineth have dominion over the nobles among the people: YHWH made me have dominion over the mighty.
14. Out of Ephraim came down they whose root is in Amalek; after thee, Benjamin, among thy people; out of Machir came down governors, and out of Zebulun they that handle the pen of the writer.
15. And the princes of Issachar were with Deborah; even Issachar, and also Barak: he was sent on foot into the valley. For the divisions of Reuben there were great thoughts of heart.
16. Why abodest thou among the sheepfolds, to hear the bleatings of the flocks? For the divisions of Reuben there were great searchings of heart.
17. Gilead abode beyond Jordan: and why did Dan remain in ships? Asher continued on the sea shore, and abode in his breaches.
18. Zebulun and Naphtali were a people that jeoparded their lives unto the death in the high places of the field.
19. The kings came and fought, then fought the kings of Canaan in Taanach by the waters of Megiddo; they took no gain of money.
20. They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.
21. The river of Kishon swept them away, that ancient river, the river Kishon. O my soul, thou hast trodden down strength!

Revelation 12:7-11
7. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8. And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our Elohim, and the power of His Messiah: for the Accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our Elohim day and night.
11. And they overcame him through the blood of the Lamb, and through the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

We wrestle not against flesh and blood but rather in the high places of the fields of the heart and mind. Those who would point the finger at others and say that another human being is a devil are themselves deceived and not keeping the commandments of Messiah, or Peter, or Paul. They have already lost the opening battle because they do not understand who and what they truly need to be waring against. The kingdom of Elohim is within us.

 

[chrysostom]

we are all brothers in Christ

 

[Wick Stick]

If you truly want to understand this theology, (and Paul) perhaps a trip down memory lane to Tzaddukim Dameseq would be in order. The same goes for Leukos "the White", ("the Physician") you know who Azariah the son of Hananiah-Ananias the great is, correct? Yea, Saul met him at Zadokite Damascus if I remember correctly, (and I do) and the scales fell from his eyes.

I know who the historic personage Azariah Ben Annas was. I'm not sure you are referring the man, though. You tend to go for the supernal over the literal.

So then, how do I get to supernal Damascus from here (and is the destination quite so important as the road there)? I wandered down memory lane long enough to remember your internet residence at sheshbezzar. I read your article on the House of Ananus and the 8th Day of Atonement.

It still seems that you are positing Lazarus (and Luke, and Simon the leper, and Azariah) as spirit two out of seven. Not physically I suppose, but in the interpretatino.

If I'm understanding correctly (probably not), then I don't think I buy the sevenfold spirits of God and the four beasts as being major metaphorical constructs of the Bible. Or at least, I don't agree that they are the same construct. As far as I can tell, the beasties belong to the dark, and the spirit(s) of God to the light.

As usual, you draw some fascinating parallels and connect some dots that I hadn't thought to draw lines between.

Jarrod

 

[ok doser]

we are all brothers in Christ

not according to the squeakster

according to squeaky, we're all intellectual idiots

 

[User Name]

What is this "OTHER" thing that some put on their mast heads?

Are they ashamed of what they are? Maybe their cultist and they don't want others to know that, so they use the title "other" to disguise what they are.

We who are Christians are at a dis-adavantage with these "others". We have no way on knowing what they believe. It is not fair to the Christians on this Forum to use "Other" to identfy yourself.

When Christians use "Christian" on their mast head we atleast know that they are not ashamed of what they are. But "Other"? What's an other? In my book it is an "Other" unbeliever.

Robert Pate rebukes Captain Kirk

​

 

[Ben Masada]

Eternal life isn't offered through the Catholic religious system. The Grace Gospel as Paul preached it offers, forgiveness of sin, the righteousness of Christ, a position in the Body of Christ, the sealing, indwelling, and baptism (not by water)
into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. It also guarantees eternal life.

There is absolutely nothing eternal about man. If you read Genesis 3:22, the Lord banned Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and lived forever. The point in this allegory was that of all the Divine attributes granted to man, eternal life could not be one of them. Only God is eternal; man is mortal

 

[daqq]

I know who the historic personage Azariah Ben Annas was. I'm not sure you are referring the man, though. You tend to go for the supernal over the literal.

So then, how do I get to supernal Damascus from here (and is the destination quite so important as the road there)? I wandered down memory lane long enough to remember your internet residence at sheshbezzar. I read your article on the House of Ananus and the 8th Day of Atonement.

It still seems that you are positing Lazarus (and Luke, and Simon the leper, and Azariah) as spirit two out of seven. Not physically I suppose, but in the interpretatino.

If I'm understanding correctly (probably not), then I don't think I buy the sevenfold spirits of God and the four beasts as being major metaphorical constructs of the Bible. Or at least, I don't agree that they are the same construct. As far as I can tell, the beasties belong to the dark, and the spirit(s) of God to the light.

As usual, you draw some fascinating parallels and connect some dots that I hadn't thought to draw lines between.

Jarrod

To come boldly unto the throne of grace one must be overlain with gold having been tried in the fire, (purchased from Messiah, Rev 3:18) and become olive wood, (a process of grafting in by immersion into the scripture and the washing of water in the word) and one must have the countenance of the Lion of Yhudah, (O ye four-faced Cherubim). And when they enter in they go no more out because they are become pillars in the temple, (Rev 3:12). But first two parts in the Land of the man must breathe out his last, (Zechariah 13:7-9, Matthew 26:31-32) and what shall remain are the face of a man and the face of a young lion of Yhudah: a palm tree and a Cherub, a palm tree and a Cherub, roundabout the house.

 

[daqq]

I know who the historic personage Azariah Ben Annas was. I'm not sure you are referring the man, though. You tend to go for the supernal over the literal.

So then, how do I get to supernal Damascus from here (and is the destination quite so important as the road there)? I wandered down memory lane long enough to remember your internet residence at sheshbezzar. I read your article on the House of Ananus and the 8th Day of Atonement.

It still seems that you are positing Lazarus (and Luke, and Simon the leper, and Azariah) as spirit two out of seven. Not physically I suppose, but in the interpretatino.

Haha, that was not what I meant by memory lane, try Tobit, you will find scaly eyes and a Physician in that account also. As for Damascus the authorities at Yerushalaim likely did not have any authority, to seize and bring back to the inner city for prosecution, in the Damascus which we know of today, in modern Syria, but rather had that kind of authority over their Zadokite brethren, that is Qumran Damascus, (where Saul was sent and where he met Ananias).

If I'm understanding correctly (probably not), then I don't think I buy the sevenfold spirits of God and the four beasts as being major metaphorical constructs of the Bible. Or at least, I don't agree that they are the same construct. As far as I can tell, the beasties belong to the dark, and the spirit(s) of God to the light.

Several different analogies involved here and they certainly speak of different things. The Seraphim have six wings to the one but there is always the problem of that Nicolaus proselyte-sojourner of Antioch.

 

[False Prophet]

That monk who has any satori goes right into hell like a flying arrow.

 

[Robert Pate]

we are all brothers in Christ

You cannot be my brother in Christ and reject the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ. Which you do.

That is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

 

[beloved57]

You cannot be my brother in Christ and reject the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ. Which you do.

That is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

You dont believe those scriptures and you reject the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ, Calvinism!

 

[daqq]

You cannot be my brother in Christ and reject the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ. Which you do.

That is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Your OP title does not say "brother in Christ" and there is a difference. :crackup:

 

[Robert Pate]

Your OP title does not say "brother in Christ" and there is a difference. :crackup:

Nor does your mast head say "Christian".

 

[Wick Stick]

Haha, that was not what I meant by memory lane, try Tobit, you will find scaly eyes and a Physician in that account also. As for Damascus the authorities at Yerushalaim likely did not have any authority, to seize and bring back to the inner city for prosecution, in the Damascus which we know of today, in modern Syria, but rather had that kind of authority over their Zadokite brethren, that is Qumran Damascus, (where Saul was sent and where he met Ananias).

Long time since I read Tobit, and I remember thinking it made a lovely bedtime story. Anyhow... interesting! A completely different Azariah than I had in mind. Or... is it? (cue spooky music)

How exactly do the dots connect between Qumran and the son of Annus, though? The Essenes were more-than-a-little hostile to the Zadokiy of the temple cult. "Wicked Priest" I believe is the phrase. I don't see any son of Annus finding a welcome there.

Several different analogies involved here and they certainly speak of different things. The Seraphim have six wings to the one but there is always the problem of that Nicolaus proselyte-sojourner of Antioch.

Is this a merkabah discussion? Seems to me you might have confuted the Seraphim and the Thronoi (the 4 beasts). They are linked I suppose, but Dionysius draws a distinction between those 2 and the Cherubim. Maybe you have somewhat to add to him? I was never too sure of Celestial Hierarchy. When the author's first name is "psuedo" it's usually not a good sign.

Jarrod

 

[daqq]

Long time since I read Tobit, and I remember thinking it made a lovely bedtime story. Anyhow... interesting! A completely different Azariah than I had in mind. Or... is it? (cue spooky music)

I "assumed" you had read Tobit and, hence, "memory lane". As for Azariah being the same, see Daniel 1:6, and keep the spooky music playing.

How exactly do the dots connect between Qumran and the son of Annus, though? The Essenes were more-than-a-little hostile to the Zadokiy of the temple cult. "Wicked Priest" I believe is the phrase. I don't see any son of Annus finding a welcome there.

You know that the Essene community was ruled by Tzaddukim, correct? Perhaps take a look here. And, yes, they vehemently opposed the "inner city" flesh eaters but they were indeed brethren of the house of Tzadok. Perhaps the renegade Theophilus Ananus may have hidden there with his brethren for a while? I wonder if Saul was looking for him? If so, what an irony that would be, eh? that is, to have the one you were seeking to detain end up coming to you and putting his hands upon your eyes in the name of Yeshua so that you may regain your sight? :crackup:

Is this a merkabah discussion? Seems to me you might have confuted the Seraphim and the Thronoi (the 4 beasts). They are linked I suppose, but Dionysius draws a distinction between those 2 and the Cherubim. Maybe you have somewhat to add to him? I was never too sure of Celestial Hierarchy. When the author's first name is "psuedo" it's usually not a good sign.

Jarrod

Twenty four prophets including Yochanan the Immerser and the Torah and the Prophets prophesied until Yochanan. Four Seraphim with six wings are twenty four elders roundabout the throne. The throne of Elohim is the `araphel in the heavens of the man, each and every man, whether he or she knows it or not. Your heavenly Father is in your heavens; and whatsoever you shall loose upon your earth shall be loosed in your heavens, and whatsoever you shall bind upon your earth shall be bound in your heavens, for every man is the Land. Dionysius I do not know.

 

[freelight]

Zazen....

Zazen....

That monk who has any satori goes right into hell like a flying arrow.

I gather your perspective is 'backwards'...since 'satori' is the awakening and realization of one's true nature, - understanding/comprehension,...enlightenment. When you have 'satori',....you realize 'heaven' is 'ever-present', since you realize your own 'God-nature', your true spirit-essence. (the light of awareness at the root of your recognition of "I Am").

'Hell' is just a metaphor for error, ignorance, non-reality, suffering, illusion.