ECT If By Grace Then It Is No More of Works
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
God's Truth
New member
There is no scripture that I do not consider carefully.
What makes you think you can say anything you want about others?
Jesus gave special powers to those who helped him lay the foundation so that people would believe by the miracles.
God already testified to the message and the foundation has already been laid.
God's Truth
New member
So is that your stance? You cannot remit sins in other people so you think that means we do not have to obey Jesus at all?
God's Truth
New member
You didn't respond to what I said. You merely reacted by posting the same scriptures that you misunderstand.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So do you believe that when a person believes then he is saved?:
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).
"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).
God's Truth
New member
Those scriptures say you have to believe.
What do we have to believe?
We have to believe that we have to OBEY.
Many people believe but they do NOT obey.
Those are the people who have deceived themselves, just like the Word of God says.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Yes, we are to obey but that happens after we believe and are already saved.
God's Truth
New member
I am glad that you see we have to obey.
We have to obey before we are saved and after.
Faith alone without right action is dead.
Jesus says repent or perish.
There are many people who believe and they are not saved.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Sure! Paul was really obeying the Lord before his encounter with the Lord Jesus on the Damascus road.
God's Truth
New member
Jerry, I have already explained this to you many times. Why won't you acknowledge what the Word says?
Paul's conversion PROVES that we have to believe AND OBEY to get saved.
Paul's conversion proves you wrong.
Answer this simple question:
Was Paul saved the minute he believed in Jesus on that road to Damascus, yes or no?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You said that we have to obey and believe before we are saved.
But it is obvious that Paul was not obeying at the time he was saved.
Right Divider
Body part
It is impossible to have a logical dialog with GT.
God's Truth
New member
Why won't you answer the question?
Tell me, was Paul saved the minute he believed in Jesus on that road?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Of course he was or else why would he call Him "Lord"?
God's Truth
New member
Oh Jerry, you need to look further.
Paul was not yet saved when he finally believed.
Paul was still blind and lost.
He did not eat or drink for three days and he spent his time praying out.
Then he was saved, then he had sight.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You need to stop denying the obvious so you can continue to cling to your discredited ideas. Of course Paul new that Jesus is His Lord before he obeyed anything:
"And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do" (Acts 22:10).
The following demonstrates that Paul had indeed received the Holy Spirit:
"Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor.12:3).
So we can see that Paul was saved and had received the Holy Spirit before he obeyed.
God's Truth
New member
Just because you say 'Lord', it does not mean anything, for people back then called many 'Lord'.
Calling someone 'Lord' does not save.
Jesus says those who call him 'Lord' had better do what he says.
hahahaha You are seeking in the wrong way. That is a scripture way later after Paul was saved.
Listen to what Paul is saying, he was speaking to those who were questioning the speaking of tongues, he was reassuring the people that when one is speaking in tongues they are not cursing God.
I have so much to explain to you!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Of course you have no intelligent response to what is said at 1 Corinthians 12:3.
And what about the jailer? Where is there any evidence that he obeyed before he believed:
"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway" (Acts 16:30-33).
And if it takes obedience plus faith to be saved then why did Paul only mention believing?
God's Truth
New member
He went to the jailer's house and taught him what we have to believe.
We have to believe that we have to repent to Jesus.
God's Truth
New member
That is about those who spoke in tongues. People were worried that they might be saying something bad while they were speaking in tongues. Paul assured them that if they had the gift of speaking in tongues by the Spirit then then they would not say anything bad.