Derf
Well-known member
Hi Flint!
Thanks for the response. My question back to you is, was Jesus talking to one who was one of His sheep in John 3?
I NEVER KNEW YOU
- Thread starter OCTOBER23
- Start date
Thanks for the response. My question back to you is, was Jesus talking to one who was one of His sheep in John 3?
Derf
Well-known member
So you read those verses?
No, LOL, b57 reads nothing
Derf
Well-known member
So Flint, if "the world" means the believers in John 3:17, what does it mean in John 3:19, two verses later? And how are we supposed to know the difference? Context seems insufficient, since the context is pretty much the same.
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heir
TOL Subscriber
Hi derf. Trying to talk to someone like B-52 is next to impossible. No matter what you say, he will tell you that you have it wrong. Calvinists are classic cases of rebelling against 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV.
I do however want to look at what you are writing about Christ dying for the ungodly. Have you ever noticed that it wasn't until Paul's writings that you learn that (Romans 5:6 KJV)? All through Matthew, Mark, Luke and John the focus is Christ's "friends" (John 15:13-14 KJV)/Israel, those to whom Christ was sent (Matthew 15:24 KJV). But in "due time" salvation came unto the Gentiles (certain Gentiles) through the ministry of Paul (Romans 11:13 KJV, 1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV) and of course through Israel's fall (Romans 11:11 KJV) and later to include even Gentiles like you and me (Ephesians 2:11-13 KJV, Ephesians 3:1-6 KJV)/due time to "all men" 1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV, Titus 2:11 KJV).
Derf
Well-known member
So I'm beginning to realize.
Derf
Well-known member
Hi Heir,
Thanks for the references. What do you think that all means?
Remember that in Luke 2:32 Simeon declared that Jesus was a light to the Gentiles when He was very young--so the gentiles didn't have to wait for Paul.
beloved57
Well-known member
Yeah ! Not one stated that Christ told some that He loved and died for Eph 5:25 that He Never knew them Matt 7:23 !
It says He WILL - Jesus will declare that to some
heir
TOL Subscriber
It shows the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory and Paul tells us why!
1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Gentiles in M, M, L, and John were blessed by going through the proper channels and recognizing their position in regards to Israel. Such will be the case in Gentiles future entering the kingdom (Matthew 25:31-36 KJV), but that's certainly not the case for Gentiles like you or me in the dispensation of the grace of God:
Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
...
The very fact that God would save us was a mystery hid in God!
Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
heir
TOL Subscriber
You fool! God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them!
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
The man Christ Jesus gave Himself a ransom for all!
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
And as I mentioned before, one of the reasons you reject this "due time" message is because of your rebellion against 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. You don't even have a word of truth!
God will save anyone today, anywhere they are, no matter who they are or what they were doing while they were there; when they trust the Lord believing the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) as IT is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16 KJV no longer to the Jew first and also to the Greek, but to all men as stated above).
Derf
Well-known member
Let's try it this way.
Is there anything God doesn't know? I think you'll agree the answer is no.
Is there anybody God doesn't know? I think you'll agree the answer is no.
So, if God knows everybody, but Jesus said "I never knew you" to some people, then Is Jesus not God, or does God not ever get to know somebody that He created? Which is it?
Derf
Well-known member
Before the present dispensation, was there anybody saved that didn't have to become a Jew first?
heir
TOL Subscriber
The salvation in M, M, L and J is not the same as today. Those of M, M, L and J are required to endure to the end to be saved (among other things) Matthew 10:22 KJV, Matthew 24:13 KJV. Whereas we in the Body of Christ "are saved" (1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:2 KJV, Ephesians 2:5 KJV, Ephesians 2:8 KJV).
heir
TOL Subscriber
Gentiles in M, M, L and John did not have to become Jews to receive a blessing nor will they at the second coming to enter the kingdom.
It's late here. See you around!
beloved57
Well-known member
Yeah He will declare that to some !
flintstoned
New member
Are you referring to Nicodemus? Based on what little is said about him in this chapter, I don't think we could assume whether or not Nicodemus was one of his sheep. It would appear just based on this chapter, that he wasn't since he did not believe "I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things." However, this does not mean that he might not later believe.
The only way to know if someone is one of the elect/sheep, is if they believe in their heart. If someone is currently an unbeliever, it could be that they were elected by God, but have not yet been brought to believe. We do not know what God's timetable is regarding when he decides to draw someone and change their heart so they can believe.
Nanja
Well-known member
The imperative, Ye must be born again, is only directed to Christ's Sheep,
for it is of necessity that every one of them shall experience New Birth in their lifetime,
when the Spirit imparts Spiritual Life to those Justified by Christ's Blood.
Rom. 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly,
his faith is counted for righteousness.
Faith / Believing on Christ is a Fruit of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22.
Jesus spoke directly to Nicodemus, these words:
John 3:7
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
And the evidence that Nicodemus did become a Believer is indicated in:
John 19:38-40
v.38 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews,
besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave.
He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus. v.39 And there came also Nicodemus,
which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes,
about an hundred pound weight. v.40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it
in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.
~~~~~
for it is of necessity that every one of them shall experience New Birth in their lifetime,
when the Spirit imparts Spiritual Life to those Justified by Christ's Blood.
Rom. 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly,
his faith is counted for righteousness.
Faith / Believing on Christ is a Fruit of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22.
Jesus spoke directly to Nicodemus, these words:
John 3:7
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
And the evidence that Nicodemus did become a Believer is indicated in:
John 19:38-40
v.38 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews,
besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave.
He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus. v.39 And there came also Nicodemus,
which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes,
about an hundred pound weight. v.40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it
in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.
~~~~~
ttruscott
Well-known member
Yes, isn't it wonderful!! I do my best to support Christianity from Scripture and the Holy Spirit myself. Now you seem a little emotionally unsettled right now, eh?
ttruscott
Well-known member
Those who accepted HIS deity and HIS proposal of marriage, that is, the promise of election to heaven by their free will. Period. That is how we joined HIS family (the pre-prodigal son) or HIS flock (His sheep) before we went astray. A sheep who goes astray must start as a sheep, eh, not a goat?
The demons self created themselves as eternally evil by rejecting HIS deity and HIS marriage proposal, that is, their election to heaven, whereas the elect who sinned only rejected HIS plan for HIS creation, that is, the judgment to hell of HIS eternally evil enemies and thereby they went astray.