Hurting People On TOL

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glorydaz

glorydaz

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IMJerusha said:
Don't be upset. I'm not advocating works for salvation. That boat sailed...that covenant is gone. Yeshua is our only go to for salvation. He calls, however, for obedience to His commands as He obeys the Father which is the fruit of the Ruach. We can choose to obey or not. He states "Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me." John 14:21 There is a requirement to do the will of God, not our own will and Yeshua stated, "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock." Matthew 7:24 Putting something into practice is action. Yeshua calls for action in the faith and just because people do acts of righteousness does not mean that they are relying on those acts of righteousness for their salvation. It means they are being obedient and showing forth fruit of the Ruach.
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IMJerusha said:
Yes, my understanding agrees with those verses. Why wouldn't they? Yeshua Himself explains/expounds on that in John 15.
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Ah, how subtle a lie can be! Just a little tweak and it becomes our being justified by OUR obedience instead of the OBEDIENCE OF ONE. We are not that one. (John 15 doesn't "explain" that keeping the commandments are a requirement of salvation.)


The first "commandment" came when Adam was told to KEEP the garden. He was to tend it and it would produce "fruit".

Genesis 2:15-16KJV
And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:​

Now, read this verse again with that in mind.

John 14:21KJV
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.​

The "requirement" is for what? Certainly NOT for salvation....therefore, "requirement" is misleading at best and deceitful when preached when speaking of salvation. When you tend to (keep) the tomatoes, you will reap tomatoes. Those are blessings, but certainly not where LIFE comes from. That is from another source altogether.
 
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resurrected

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i keep reading this thread title as "Hunting People On TOL"


gives it an Elmer Fudd vibe, eh? :chuckle:




shhhh - be vewy vewy quiet
 
rocketman

rocketman

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IMJerusha said:
Yeshua chose twelve, not just one and what He taught them ALL is applicable to our faith walks. So rather than posture that Paul's writings are being discounted, which they aren't, why not consider Paul's question?...who was crucified for us? The point is that our focus should be on Yeshua and His Words. This tendency to uphold Paul and his writings over any other of Yeshua's disciples and their record in Scripture is wrong.
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When did Christ teach salvation by grace through faith prior to his dbr? The point is Christ's own words as written in the gospels were written to the Jews prior to his dbr and furthermore the offering of salvation to the gentiles was not even offered prior to the dbr. I certainly do consider exactly what Paul said concerning who was crucified for us but, if you think the apostles understood the ramifications of the cross, salvation by grace through faith, the end of the law, salvation offered to the gentiles prior to the dbr you would be mistaken. Nobody is holding up Paul over any other writings but, it important to understand the progression of scripture & the ultimate message being conveyed which changed dramatically after the dbr.
 
meshak

meshak

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Totton Linnet said:
Here's your own testimony meshak...you say I am not saved, not a true Christian

Still want to report me?
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I just reported it. I did not say I am not saved. I said I don't claim to be saved.

Your faith is so shallow, friend. You are so quick to judge anyone who are saved or not, usurping Jesus' authority.

And you claim to be true and saved Christian.
 
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IMJerusha

IMJerusha

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glorydaz said:
Ah, how subtle a lie can be! Just a little tweak and it becomes our being justified by OUR obedience instead of the OBEDIENCE OF ONE. We are not that one. (John 15 doesn't "explain" that keeping the commandments are a requirement of salvation.)


The first "commandment" came when Adam was told to KEEP the garden. He was to tend it and it would produce "fruit".

Genesis 2:15-16KJV
And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:​

Now, read this verse again with that in mind.

John 14:21KJV
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.​

The "requirement" is for what? Certainly NOT for salvation....therefore, "requirement" is misleading at best and deceitful when preached when speaking of salvation. When you tend to (keep) the tomatoes, you will reap tomatoes. Those are blessings, but certainly not where LIFE comes from. That is from another source altogether.
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What part of John 15 don't you get? Nowhere does Yeshua state that we aren't required to do God's Will. Yeshua's words are even more clear in Matthew 7:21-23. You think you will not be judged at all because you believe and you use the words in John 5:24 to prove that but you prove nothing. We've gone round this bend together before. Yeshua stated that whoever hears His word and believes God who sent Him has eternal life and won't be condemned but just exactly what do you think it means to believe God? Criminies, even the demons believe so what is it that separates us from them?...our faith in action, our obedience and faithfulness to Yeshua. You can ignore Scripture such as James 2 til the cows come home, that's your choice, but considering how much of it I have stuck in front of your nose to support what I'm stating, you can't call me deceitful or misleading with anything other than the conviction of your doctrine. You want that doctrine, fine, have at it but I don't have to agree with it nor is the acceptance of it demonstrative of faith or the lack of it or of a weak faith.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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Angel4Truth said:
You have stated over and over the judgment by God on who is a christian has not been done yet and that no one can know they are saved, in effect saying you are not part of Christs church, because to be a part of Christs church, means to be born again/saved.

If you maintain you are not, then you are not part of Christs church. You yourself deny being part of it, each time you claim we cant know we are saved.
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Yep!
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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rocketman said:
When did Christ teach salvation by grace through faith prior to his dbr? The point is Christ's own words as written in the gospels were written to the Jews prior to his dbr and furthermore the offering of salvation to the gentiles was not even offered prior to the dbr. I certainly do consider exactly what Paul said concerning who was crucified for us but, if you think the apostles understood the ramifications of the cross, salvation by grace through faith, the end of the law, salvation offered to the gentiles prior to the dbr you would be mistaken. Nobody is holding up Paul over any other writings but, it important to understand the progression of scripture & the ultimate message being conveyed which changed dramatically after the dbr.
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You're 100% right on!
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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meshak said:
This is out right lie. Quote me when I said I don't belong to Christ's church.

But I know why you say this, though. You are putting the word into my mouth, twisting what I said.

I will go after you until you quote me, because this is lie.

I will report you if you don't make this clear; either you apologize to me or quote me where I said it.
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Are ya gonna put her on ignore too? The double whammy?? Oh, NO!!
 
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