HOW TO GET TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE

[jeneve]

Who would know? There are lots of people on this thread.


Have you even read this thread...?


Your wholly non-authoritative and non-binding opinion is noted.


"...from the Bible" as authoritatively and bindingly interpreted by whom, exactly? By you, or by Christ's historic Church?


Sorry, but I'll take the authoritative teachings of Christ's historic Church over your opinions and preferences any day.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

seeing as to how my source comes directly from the bible, and yours doesn't, it really doesn't matter. My facts come from God. how about yours?:grave:

 

[freelight]

Infinite Love.....

Infinite Love.....

...or not:

Examination of Conditional Immortality, "Soul Sleep" and "Annihilationism"

Soul Sleep​

Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Hi Cruce and all,

We've taken on 'soul sleep' elsewhere, its a fascinating subject, the eschatology of the soul, etc. I may look for an older thread on this, for it deserves its own space to continue with. I usually reject the option of 'eternal conscious torment' , and explored 'annihilation' or 'universal salvation' as more tenable options within Christian theological perspectives,...but various dimensions and possibilities exist in each catagory.

Liberally I usually assume a more spiritualist view, that all souls as long as they are consciously alive, and have the capacity to change their minds (repent, change, transform themselves) can continue to prosper...that infinite Love is ever available to inspire and guide souls in eternal progress and fulfillment of purpose.


pj

 

[Cruciform]

seeing as to how my source comes directly from the bible, and yours doesn't, it really doesn't matter.

Please re-post your supposed biblical "source" from Post #61, the initial post to which I responded. Thanks.

My facts come from God. how about yours?

Same. (Uh-ohhh...now what do you do?)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[jeneve]

Please re-post your supposed biblical "source" from Post #61, the initial post to which I responded. Thanks.


Same. (Uh-ohhh...now what do you do?)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

your posts do not come from God. they come from what someone else says. which is why you only posted sources, not verses. :dunce: and my verses are in post 67.

 

[Cruciform]

your posts do not come from God. they come from what someone else says.

...just as yours come from what someone else has told you. (You didn't really imagine that you came up with your beliefs on your own, did you...? )

...and my verses are in post 67.

Mine are in Post #62.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[jeneve]

...just as yours come from what someone else has told you. (You didn't really imagine that you came up with your beliefs on your own, did you...? )


Mine are in Post #62.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

yes, I came up with my beliefs on my own. while it is true that I was told a certain thing, I always looked up the truth for myself, and didnt believe what I was told until it was proven in the bible to be true. I think for myself.

and your verses arent in any posts, just a source from someone else.

 

[Cruciform]

yes, I came up with my beliefs on my own.

No you didn't, nor does anyone else in the world. You derive your ideas and beliefs from sources outside of yourself, just like everyone else. In other words, you must learn them. You choose how to put those ideas and beliefs together to form a belief system, but you must first get those ideas and beliefs from sources that exist outside of yourself. My statement therefore stands as posted.

...and your verses arent in any posts, just a source from someone else.

...sources which are filled with biblical texts and arguments. Sorry, but your excuse that I supposedly "didn't post any verses" is a straightforward falsehood. They're right there in the sources I cited. Whether or not you decide to take advantage of them is another matter entirely.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[AmarBadz]

Hate to be the one to break it to you, but when you die, that's it. It's over. Nothing after.

So make the most of your time here.

I just wonder, that is there after life!? Many claim there is heaven and hell but what is the truth about it. All this pictures about Jesus, have anyone ever seen Him and draw a perfect replica of His face.

 

[jeneve]

No you didn't, nor does anyone else in the world. You derive your ideas and beliefs from sources outside of yourself, just like everyone else. In other words, you must learn them. You choose how to put those ideas and beliefs together to form a belief system, but you must first get those ideas and beliefs from sources that exist outside of yourself. My statement therefore stands as posted.


...sources which are filled with biblical texts and arguments. Sorry, but your excuse that I supposedly "didn't post any verses" is a straightforward falsehood. They're right there in the sources I cited. Whether or not you decide to take advantage of them is another matter entirely.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

I have been to many types of churches. Catholic, SDA, Jehovah Witnesses, Baptist, etc. and have been taught many different ways. So then I turned to the bible itself, and learned what it really says. The bible is the only source from which I draw my beliefs.

And I do not lie. I am here for truth, not games. You did NOT post any verses yourself. What you did was get material that someone else wrote and post it, rather than going to the bible and look up the verses for yourself and posting them. My statement therefore stands as posted.:think:

 

[jeneve]

I just wonder, that is there after life!? Many claim there is heaven and hell but what is the truth about it. All this pictures about Jesus, have anyone ever seen Him and draw a perfect replica of His face.

no one has ever drawn a perfect replica of Christ. If they have, it has either been destroyed or lost. All the supposed pictures you see of "Christ" are either pictures of white men, or they have long hair. Christ was neither white nor did He have long hair, so the pictures are false.

 

[Cruciform]

I have been to many types of churches. Catholic, SDA, Jehovah Witnesses, Baptist, etc...

Interesting. Half of the "churches" you list don't even qualify as Christian groups. This is telling.

...and have been taught many different ways. So then I turned to the bible itself, and learned what it really says. The bible is the only source from which I draw my beliefs.

Yes, you turned to the Bible, which you then proceeded to interpret through the lens of your preferred Protestant doctrinal sources. This is true whether you're aware of having done so or not. An individual brings all that he's experienced, all that he's read, heard, or seen, all of the sermons, articles, or conversations that he's encountered---all of these sources of information---to the task of interpreting the Bible. Bottom line: The Bible is not interpreted in a vacuum.

This is why tens-of-thousands of Protestant sects can "turn to the Bible" just like you, and yet come up with scores of different and competing interpretations of the very same texts. It all depends upon which doctrinal traditions are chosen and permitted to inform one's interpretations.

You did NOT post any verses yourself. What you did was get material that someone else wrote and post it, rather than going to the bible and look up the verses for yourself and posting them.

What substantive difference does it make, since they're exactly the same verses? I posted two sources that accurately reflect my own point of view, and those sources contain the biblical texts that I would have offered had I written the articles myself. You'd do better to stop whining and simply read the material that was posted. But you'd rather quibble childishly over irrelevancies. Hmm...wonder why that is... :think:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[freelight]

Reality, always present........

Reality, always present........

~*~*~

So far seems like a lot of childish bickering not even germane to the subject here. These egoic obsessions really just go in circles. Soul-sleep is an interesting subject. Remember though that apart from some true inner knowing within your own being, about 'God', 'reality', 'existence'.....all there are....are points of view. Assuming these points of 'belief', 'dogma', 'opinion' are actual truths....is senseless, although they may be probable or logically concluded. They are still 'relative perspectives'. One does not have to strain their religious ego by defending them, - just viewpoints....remember that

The truth of existence is unviersally consisent and real NOW....as this Life that is now Being. This Being and Consciousness that I AM is already eternally whole. - one can throw ontop of this all manner of theological assmuption, indoctrination, images, concepts, etc....but the one reality that I Am remains. I can love and live from reality...because it is my true nature, and the true nature of all. It is Love itself.

The same laws of this eternal Presence, however an individual mind modifies such in space or time...remains universally consistent. Therefore, your experience of 'heaven' or 'hell' will be appropriated according to the receptivity or obscuration of your 'mind' to the presence of 'God'. - in this dimension or any world beyond. Heaven is at hand, NOW. One can see this ...or not see this. The One Presence can never be absesnt from ItSelf...since it is already all.

pj

 

[jeneve]

Interesting. Half of the "churches" you list don't even qualify as Christian groups. This is telling.


Yes, you turned to the Bible, which you then proceeded to interpret through the lens of your preferred Protestant doctrinal sources. This is true whether you're aware of having done so or not. An individual brings all that he's experienced, all that he's read, heard, or seen, all of the sermons, articles, or conversations that he's encountered---all of these sources of information---to the task of interpreting the Bible. Bottom line: The Bible is not interpreted in a vacuum.

This is why tens-of-thousands of Protestant sects can "turn to the Bible" just like you, and yet come up with scores of different and competing interpretations of the very same texts. It all depends upon which doctrinal traditions are chosen and permitted to inform one's interpretations.


What substantive difference does it make, since they're exactly the same verses? I posted two sources that accurately reflect my own point of view, and those sources contain the biblical texts that I would have offered had I written the articles myself. You'd do better to stop whining and simply read the material that was posted. But you'd rather quibble childishly over irrelevancies. Hmm...wonder why that is... :think:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

I guess one of those groups that dont qualify as Christian is Catholic, so you are right on that.

The fact that you decide to call me Protestant simply shows how ignorant and blind you really are. Go do your whining somewhere else.

 

[Cruciform]

I guess one of those groups that dont qualify as Christian is Catholic, so you are right on that.

Try again. :nono:

The fact that you decide to call me Protestant simply shows how ignorant and blind you really are.

"Protestant," as in "anti-Catholic." The shoe fits, so you'll just have to wear it.

Go do your whining somewhere else.

No surprise that you now resort to nothing but ad hominem rhetoric, since you clearly have no genuine argument---let alone refutation---to offer in answer to my statements. Moving on...



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[jeneve]

Try again. :nono:


"Protestant," as in "anti-Catholic." The shoe fits, so you'll just have to wear it.


No surprise that you now resort to nothing but ad hominem rhetoric, since you clearly have no genuine argument---let alone refutation---to offer in answer to my statements. Moving on...



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

no refutation to what statements? you haven't made any. You just let others do the talking for you. And being Catholic is as far from being a Christian as you can get. No need to try again.

 

[Cruciform]

no refutation to what statements? you haven't made any. You just let others do the talking for you.

The statements in Post #91, for example, genius. Try to keep up.

And being Catholic is as far from being a Christian as you can get.

So, then, your claim is that there were no Christians until the 16th-century Protestant reformation, is that it? Brilliant. :darwinsm:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[jeneve]

The statements in Post #91, for example, genius. Try to keep up.


So, then, your claim is that there were no Christians until the 16th-century Protestant reformation, is that it? Brilliant. :darwinsm:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Oh yes, there were Christians before then. My claim is they weren't Catholic, and never have been.

And in post 91, that's just you posting what someone else says.

 

[keypurr]

So, then, your claim is that there were no Christians until the 16th-century Protestant reformation, is that it? Brilliant. :darwinsm:

Yes there were many Christians but your church tried to kill them all. Lucky they did not attane their goal. The TRUE church will never be wiped out. But the RCC will.
Babylon is falling, get out or her before it is to late.

 

[Cruciform]

Oh yes, there were Christians before then. My claim is they weren't Catholic, and never have been.

Sorry, but it's back to Church History 101 for you.

And in post 91, that's just you posting what someone else says.

...and with which I agree completely.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Cruciform]

Yes there were many Christians but your church tried to kill them all. Lucky they did not attane their goal. The TRUE church will never be wiped out. But the RCC will. Babylon is falling, get out or her before it is to late.

>sigh<... Post #99 applies to you as well.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+