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Nightangel1282

New member
And try to answer a question once in awhile!

He's too busy ignoring or dodging my arguments to bother with answering my questions. I've come across people like him before. There's no point in trying to reason with them. They're right and anyone who disagrees with them is wrong, end of story :eyeroll:
 

Thunder's Muse

Well-known member
Hi Thunder's Muse.

Sidebar: I notice you call yourself "more left than right" (Eccl 10:2). Do you think that is a wise place to line up?


:idunno: works for me. Not sure if that verse is speaking about my political stance on TOL. Not sure what my political stance has to do with the discussion.


We cannot save people. God saves people (Ps 3:8; 37:39; Jer 3:23).


True.


I think we hear a little differently (Jer 5:21).


Nothing wrong with that.


That's never a good sign.

See:

Roman Catholicism http://vananne.com/culttoasters/#Roman_Catholicism


I'm not really into religion bashing.

1 Jn 2:19.
We come to God on his terms (in repentance and humility) not on our own.


Yes, I understand that. Doesn't mean she didn't feel abandoned. And that is still an important point to remember.


Ya think?


Well, NA clarified that in another post. But just supposing she was
angry with God, do you really think bombarding her with scripture is the best way to go? Think about it.
 
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lightbringer

TOL Subscriber
He's too busy ignoring or dodging my arguments to bother with answering my questions. I've come across people like him before. There's no point in trying to reason with them. They're right and anyone who disagrees with them is wrong, end of story :eyeroll:

Actually SnakeBird is a special case when it comes to the Christians at TOL, most of them will quote scriptures that at least pertain to a comment, with SnakeBird you never know and don't ever expect an answer to a question or comment, he isn't capable! His brain has been addled for a long while and some times I feel sorry for the little weasel!

Just ignore him, it is apparent that he wishes to run you off of TOL!
 

Thunder's Muse

Well-known member
Awesome! I'm mostly into fantasy books (favorite author is Charles deLint), but I also like horror or thriller (Ironically enough, The Stand by Steven King is my fave). I primarily write fanfiction and post them on the internet for feedback.


Stephen King is one of my faves. I've been reading King since I was about 12. I like books with a paranormal twist, mystery, history, forensics or religion. I like Shakespeare too.




Oh, we could wind up having some LOOOOONG conversations then :)


hehe! Awesome! 1st question. Ever seen a ghost? (I'm guessing, many?:) )


Ah, don't be jealous. Anybody can learn how to draw with just a little work. Besides, I'm sure you have many of your own creative talents :)


Well, I can sing, I can act, I've written and directed plays, sung in rock bands..oh, I'm very modest too :D



Yay! I think we have a lot in common lol. :D


I think so too :)


I'm not too concerned, honestly lol. But thanks for the warning :)


Oh, I get the feeling you know a thing or 2 about looking after yourself :)
 

lucy

New member
No, the others don't seem to mind and it gives them the chance to chime in on our points and questions....the more the merrier!

What is your take on the post directed at SnakeBird?

Post # 164

I have also been told that the writers of the Bible where men inspired by God, Verbal inspiration means that each word of the Bible is fully inspired by the Spirit. Plenary inspiration means that the Bible as a whole is specially inspired. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

So, if we are to be believers in Christianity, we accept that these inspired men have written the Bible as words that are God-breathed and to be accepted as the Gospel, Something, such as an idea or principle, accepted as unquestionably true.

Some of the statements I will make I will put a little footnote next to. The resource is listed at the bottom of this post. I am using only one source since he states things pretty succinctly and I have read his material. The author of this particular source was an atheist who set out to prove the Bible was a work of fiction. Lee Strobel was a legal editor for the Chicago Tribune. He used his legal and journalism skills to investigate the claims of the Bible. He interviewed experts in various fields and from various universities to compile his works. He has several books out that address the questions about the veracity of the Bible, the life of Christ, the Resurrection, etc.

I never heard of Plenary inspiration - I will have to look that up. The way I understand and believe is that the original documents were inspired by the Holy Spirit and the authors of the various books wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. We do not have the original documents (these are known as autographs) but the scribes who copied the originals to preserve them were under very strict rules as to how to copy the scripture. It was considered sacred, so changing the words was just not something that was done. Even so, in an earlier post, I explained that although we don't have the original autographs anymore, the copies are very faithful- that is, yes, there are minor errors of spelling or an addition of a word or two here or there, but because of the multitudes of copies (around 5,000 copies exist of the New Testament today), copies which were written in different geographical areas by different scribes and at different times, and even in different languages (Greek, Aramaic, etc.). You can compare the copies to determine where a word was changed or a spelling error occurred or where something was added by the scribe to clarify and idea. What has been discovered by comparing the copies is that yes, there are minor errors, but the message is still the same. There are no huge contradictions between copies that is. (1)

In addition, copies began to appear fairly early after the actual events. The earliest copy of the Gospel of John is concluded to have been written between 100 to 150 years after the death of Christ. The Gospels themselves were written while the eye witnesses of the events were still living, so that's about 40-50 years after the death of Christ. (1)

In comparison, the writings of Tacitus, the Roman historian who wrote the Annals of Imperial Rome in about A.D 116, exist today in only one manuscript and this copy was written in A.D. 850 - a very long time after the original, and there are no copies to compare it to to determine its accuracy. (1)

The Illiad, written by Homer, was the "bible" of the ancient Greeks. There are less than 650 Greek copies of it today. Homer composed the Illiad about 800 B.C. but the copies were written from the 2nd and 3rd centuries A.D. or so. (1)


Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 1:27

God speaking of the creation of man.

Ge 1:26
Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, etc. etc.

The "image" of God is referring to the fact that we have some of the same characteristics of God, not that we physically look like Him. He is Spirit, and Spirit is not physical. However, God has characteristics that we share the the animals do not. For example, God has a mind, He has emotions, He has ideas, He can plan, He can carry out a plan, He loves, He is capable of and wants relationship, He has the ability to communicate (language), etc. These are the characteristics we share with Him.

Question:
1. Who are the ones referred to as "Us" and also "Our"?

2. Are there more than one of God's race? i.e. "Us and Our".

He is speaking as if referring to more than one person or image or likeness in this passage.

This is the idea of the Trinity. This is a concept it is said that we do not "understand" but that we can "apprehend". God has revealed Himself in this manner. In the Old Testament, it was not fully revealed to people what this meant. In the New Testament, Jesus clarified the concept. He called Himself the Son, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit the third "person" of the Trinity. No one in the Christian community fully understands this concept. There is somehow One God, but He expresses Himself as three persons. It is simply accepted in the Christian community that God's being is so complex, our finite minds can't grasp His being, so this is how He has explained Himself to us; He uses the imagery of the family, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. He is without gender, neither male nor female physically, yet with characteristics of both in a sense.


(1) Strobel, Lee (1998). The Case for Christ: A Journalists Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House.

Now, may I ask you a few questions about your beliefs? I know next to nothing about Paganism except that it is similar to New Age beliefs.
I am curious about the following:
1. Do you believe in a god or do you have many gods?
2. How do you communicate with your god or gods?
3. Are there any written autographs or copies of autographs that give some explanation of the essence of your god/gods and how they interact with man?
4. What is the explanation your belief system gives for the spiritual "immaturity" that you spoke about earlier? Why is man so self-centered and so violent? Why does man create war and kill each other? What is the mechanism or force by which man is to grow spiritually and "get better"?

Thanks! Hey, and it has been fun talking to you. You make me think and I really enjoy having to think about why I believe what I believe. :)
 

lucy

New member
Awesome! I'm mostly into fantasy books (favorite author is Charles deLint), but I also like horror or thriller (Ironically enough, The Stand by Steven King is my fave). I primarily write fanfiction and post them on the internet for feedback.

Hey, I like fantasy too. I like Sci-Fi mostly. What is fanfiction? Where do you post them on the internet?
 

lucy

New member
SnakeBird, you are selling snake oil to the multitudes...just too bad no ones buying any!

You will take anything from anywhere and use it in an attempt to prove a post, have you no integrity?

Hahaha, Ok, I was wondering who "Snakebird" was. Now I get it.

I'm sure he thinks he is doing a good job defending the faith. Not all of us who call ourselves Christian are like that. I believe you have to start where a person is at - if they do not believe the scripture, what's the use of quoting ad nauseum? Start where the person is at- answer their questions as best you can and try to understand where they are coming from as best you can. You have to have some sort of relationship with a person before you can start spouting your stuff. Jesus was and is relational. It took him 3 years to get close to the disciples and "explain" Himself. He did not quote scripture all day long to them. He lived with them, shared meals with them, etc. That's how you get to know someone. When they saw He was for real, then they believed.
 

lucy

New member
Even I can't make it through what SerpentDove is quoting! Ya know a good scripture in the NT says that it is the love of God that draws us to Him. Where's your love, bro? Unless you are a 5 point Calvinist, then that explains everything. No offense, but even if you are a 5 pointer, SerpentDove, you do not know who has and who has not been chosen. Remember the "adulterous woman" in the NT? Jesus did not lecture her. He knew she was an adulterer. She knew she was an adulterer. But guess what? He did not condemn her. He knew her heart. On the surface, she looked like someone that was not of the "elect" as you understand "elect". You do not have the same perspective of the Savior - He was the God-Man and knew her heart. We cannot know anyone's heart, nor what God has planned for them. Let the Holy Spirit do His work. He does not need your help! :D Jesus was tender with those who were searching. He was tender with those who hurting. He was tender with those who needed help. He was stern with the self-righteous. Are you willing to reach out to those who don't believe or think like you do and extend the love and fellowship of Christ to them like He did for you?

The very fact that non-believers come to this site and are open and ask questions may be an indication that God is working in their spirit, even if they do not believe this. Just think about it, hmmm?
 

lightbringer

TOL Subscriber
Hahaha, Ok, I was wondering who "Snakebird" was. Now I get it.

:idea: I knew you would!

I'm sure he thinks he is doing a good job defending the faith. Not all of us who call ourselves Christian are like that. I believe you have to start where a person is at - if they do not believe the scripture, what's the use of quoting ad nauseum? Start where the person is at- answer their questions as best you can and try to understand where they are coming from as best you can. You have to have some sort of relationship with a person before you can start spouting your stuff. Jesus was and is relational. It took him 3 years to get close to the disciples and "explain" Himself. He did not quote scripture all day long to them. He lived with them, shared meals with them, etc. That's how you get to know someone. When they saw He was for real, then they believed.

RepileFeathers is just another that enjoys looking down his nose at others. He is not here to help those seeking knowledge, he is here to brow beat them as if he is some one special...take away his soft ware system and we wouldn't see all of these scripture quotes that do not pertain to questions/statements.

Just a weasel playing a game!

A wolf in sheep's clothing?

A false prophet with a pitch fork under his robs!:devil:
 

Nightangel1282

New member
Actually SnakeBird is a special case when it comes to the Christians at TOL, most of them will quote scriptures that at least pertain to a comment, with SnakeBird you never know and don't ever expect an answer to a question or comment, he isn't capable! His brain has been addled for a long while and some times I feel sorry for the little weasel!

Just ignore him, it is apparent that he wishes to run you off of TOL!

It'll take more than him to drive me away. A LOT more. I'm a sturdy girl :D
 

Nightangel1282

New member
Stephen King is one of my faves. I've been reading King since I was about 12. I like books with a paranormal twist, mystery, history, forensics or religion. I like Shakespeare too.
Ooohhh.... how about Ancient History? Things like the Aztecs and Egyptians? (Egyptians are my fave ancient culture)


hehe! Awesome! 1st question. Ever seen a ghost? (I'm guessing, many?:) )
I've seen ghosts twice. My first was when I was eight years old and I saw the ghost of my dead dog, and the second time was when I was home by myself in our old home (we moved two years ago). I was sixteen and as I was sitting on the computer, I saw a flicker of movement out of the corner of my eye, and when I turned to look, I saw a completely solid looking man in a long dark jacket and a wide brimmed hat on his head (it kinda looked like something Dick Tracey would wear). I, naturally, freaked out. I jumped up, and when I turned around again, he was gone. I've also heard whispers and voices (no, I'm NOT schizo, my dad even made me go in to get tested for it and it came back negative), and I was tapped on the shoulder once when nobody was there. I've experienced other weird things, but I don't want this to become too lengthy lol.


Well, I can sing, I can act, I've written and directed plays, sung in rock bands..oh, I'm very modest too :D
See, you DO have your own expressive outlet :D I think everybody should have something creative to do in their spare time.


Oh, I get the feeling you know a thing or 2 about looking after yourself :)
Hehehe, yes, and I can get pretty nasty if someone ticks me off :p
 

Nightangel1282

New member
Hey, I like fantasy too. I like Sci-Fi mostly. What is fanfiction? Where do you post them on the internet?
Fanfiction is where you take an already existing show or movie, and you write stories based upon it, using the characters and the setting from those shows. I'm primarily write fanfiction about anime shows that I like to watch (Yu Yu Hakusho is my absolute FAVE!!!). If you're interested in looking up my stories, they're all posted at www.fanfiction.net. I have the same username there as I do here.... Nightangel1282. Just look it up in the search engine on the site and you'll find me :)
 

Thunder's Muse

Well-known member
Ooohhh.... how about Ancient History? Things like the Aztecs and Egyptians? (Egyptians are my fave ancient culture)


Yep, yep! When I was a kid, I read all sorts of books on Egyptians and Ancient Greece. I really love Celtic cultures...Ireland in particular. Tuatha Du Dannan and the Sidhe.



I've seen ghosts twice. My first was when I was eight years old and I saw the ghost of my dead dog, and the second time was when I was home by myself in our old home (we moved two years ago). I was sixteen and as I was sitting on the computer, I saw a flicker of movement out of the corner of my eye, and when I turned to look, I saw a completely solid looking man in a long dark jacket and a wide brimmed hat on his head (it kinda looked like something Dick Tracey would wear). I, naturally, freaked out. I jumped up, and when I turned around again, he was gone. I've also heard whispers and voices (no, I'm NOT schizo, my dad even made me go in to get tested for it and it came back negative), and I was tapped on the shoulder once when nobody was there. I've experienced other weird things, but I don't want this to become too lengthy lol.


Oh, awesome! hehehe!

I've seen quite a few actually. There was a small boy in the house we used to live in. I saw him several times as did my kids. Lots more..can't wait to chat :D


See, you DO have your own expressive outlet :D I think everybody should have something creative to do in their spare time.


Agreed.


Hehehe, yes, and I can get pretty nasty if someone ticks me off :p

Uh, remind me to never tick you off! :D
 

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
"I guess you're forgetting about the lovely piece of scripture... Judge not lest ye be judged?"
Hilary Clinton's favorite Bible verse (Enyart)? Read verse two (Mt 7:2). We are not to judge hypocritically. That means--if you are going to talk the talk, you'd better be willing to walk the walk--you'd better be willing to be judged by the same standard.

The Christian is to judge rightly (Prov 31:9). You only find the non-judgmental verses of scripture "lovely"?

God will judge. It is wise to throw yourself upon the mercy of the court before you ever get to trial. Judgment is a first principle of the gospel (Heb 6:2).


"You have no right to say that I'm evil. I have not harmed anybody..."
You are a child-killer (Prov 23:7). You are responsible before God for your worldview--every thought, every deed (Prov 8:36).

Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known [Matt. 10:26].

"Friend, your life is going to be turned wrong side out someday and so is mine. God’s ultimate judgment will someday vindicate believers and deal with persecutors; so you had better have the inside of your life looking as attractive as the outside."
McGee, J. V. (1997, c1981). Thru the Bible commentary. Based on the Thru the Bible radio program. (electronic ed.) (4:60). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
[World living in Texas] "Do you have any idea how crowded that would be, for one, and for another..."
Let's go with your plan--kill them all (Jn 10:10). :reals: Liberals fail to think of consequences for their actions (Eccl 10:2).

Give "Mother Earth" the CO2--"...give her the air". Suffocate the people (http://www.popsci.com/environment/a...tration-plant-pump-33-million-tons-co2-ground).

[Adam and Eve perfect] "I suppose your perfect? Nice of you to clarify that for us. It just shows how full of yourself you really are."
I clarified Adam and Eve were created perfect in the garden. After the fall, they were imperfect. Sin has a real physical effect on the world and people. Using your body as God did not intend also has a real, physical effect on the body (1 Cor. 6:18) and the soul (1 Cor. 6:9). Fornication comes from an evil heart (Matt. 15:19).

"Using your body in a way that God did not intend, is like hitching a plow to the back of a Cadillac. You'll destroy your car. Disobey God and you'll destroy not only your physical body , but your heart, mind and soul as well (Pv 5:11). God is not a cosmic killjoy just wanting to take away your fun (Hanegraaff). Every kick has its kick back (Rogers). The playboy's payday is death (Rogers). Payday-- someday. Our lives belong to God. They are not our own. Dishonoring ourselves is dishonoring God as we are made in His image..."full text: (Armor of the Lord http://vananne.com/armorofthelord/)

Where did I claim to be perfect? God is perfect (Mt 5:48). We are not (Job 9:20; Php 3:12).
 
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lightbringer

TOL Subscriber
lucy said:
Now, may I ask you a few questions about your beliefs?

I know next to nothing about Paganism except that it is similar to New Age beliefs.

Sorry to do the copy and paste thingy, but you asked a question that could lead to a complete new thread, especially since it would lead to a very wide ranging discussion, starting with definitions and developing into the basic structure and understandings of so many separate religions. The different denominations of Christianity as an example could take years to properly address. So I'll start with a basic definition.

The Latin word paganus is often misrepresented as an adjective meaning "rural", "rustic" or "of the country". Paganus actually was a noun derived from the word pagus which originally meant 'something stuck in the ground as a landmark'. The root pag means "fixed" and is also the source of the words "page", "pale (stake)", and "pole", as well as "pact" and "peace". In later years it was metaphorically extended to 'rural district, village'. Later the noun paganus was coined to mean 'country dweller. villager' and was not meant as an insult at first. As the Roman Empire strengthened paganus came to mean 'civilian'. It was only after the Roman introduction of the aqueduct system of transporting water throughout the Roman cities that it began to have negative connotations, and did not actually become a slur until it was adopted by Middle English speaking Christians to refer to those who would not embrace Christianity.

So we see that Pagan (paganus) was originally a position or landmark era representing the local people and their beliefs that metamorphosed into, with time, "rural people", "village people", and "civilian" all denoting people that did not live in a city and would be looked upon as the uneducated country dweller, until Christians added the slur as to those that would not embrace Christianity.

A new age belief could be a belief that has just begun, one without a foundational background in an older belief.

It could also be one that is being resurrected from an older structure/system, such as Wicca.

It could also be an older belief structure that is and will be handed down from Mother to son and Father to daughter verbally as in the tradition of old.

I am curious about the following:
1. Do you believe in a god or do you have many gods?

I believe in a Godhead... a Goddess and a God, how you wish to portray that is a personal decision. It is difficult to develop a personal relationship with a deity that you cannot relate to, one that cannot be visualized, so in order for humans, at this stage of their intellect, to attempt this relationship it is necessary to put a face on their God. Hence the Christian belief, possibly the development of the Trinity, Jesus is that face.

How do you communicate with your god or gods?

The same way most people do, through prayer and ritual.

Are there any written autographs or copies of autographs that give some explanation of the essence of your god/gods and how they interact with man?

No, as I said my belief has been passed down verbally. At one time there was, but due to events of the past they where sent underground so as not to be lost, but alas that is not what happened.
You will understand this as the growth of certain religious beliefs, during a period that has become known as the "Dark Ages" possibly "the Crusades" it was dangerous to be found with materials that where not Christian, so, many of the Pagan beliefs have been lost to antiquity.

What is the explanation your belief system gives for the spiritual "immaturity" that you spoke about earlier?

Time! Maturity comes with age, living and learning from others as well as life's experiences. The way man is at 18 years of age is not normally the same as when he is 50, why? Now look at mankind, has he changed in the last 2000 years? 20,000 years? Man is progressing, albeit slowly, but he is learning and changing, and one day will evolve into the thinking, reasoning, compassionate man that he is destined to become.

Why is man so self-centered and so violent?

It is the nature of the beast, man is animal, with attributes that the lower animal kingdom was not given, the ability to learn from experiences and reason out why we need to change.

Why does man create war and kill each other?

To impose dominance over others that are seen as being incorrect in their way of life, their beliefs, it is this misplaced animal instinct to rule!

What is the mechanism or force by which man is to grow spiritually and "get better"?

Time and mans ability to learn and reason out what is just and right for his species, is this not what you God Jesus teaches?

Unfortunately man has not evolved to the point to understand this, he is still caught up in various communities or specific beliefs that categorize others into different colors, nationalities, religious doctrines, etc. etc. , all considered prejudices towards heretics!

So why are we heretics? Immaturity of the knowledge that we are of the same species with the same desires, but being afraid that we as a group are not correct and superior to others!

Animal: pertaining to the physical, sensual, or carnal nature of humans, rather than their spiritual or intellectual nature: animal needs.

Namaste : "I honor the place in you in which the entire Universe dwells, I honor the place in you which is of Love, of Integrity, of Wisdom and of Peace. When you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, we are One."

Namaste: "That which is of God in me greets that which is of God in you.

I am sure that this will not suffice as an explanation to your questions and will be cause for more in the future. You see, we are similar in our beliefs, but also separated by a vast ocean of difference, simply due to what we call religious conviction!
 
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serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
"Not sure what my political stance has to do with the discussion."
God is on the right (Heb 1:3). Where we depart from him in our thinking and worldview, we are wrong--not him. What's wrong with shifting in your seat to the right a little? :p
"I'm not really into religion bashing."
They say that when their false teaching is revealed. Notice, they attack the messenger. They did that to Jesus when he revealed truth, too. They "bashed" him something fierce, didn't they?

We live in a Christ-rejecting world. People must deal with Jesus and the claims of the Bible. We are commanded to repent. It's not a suggestion (Ac 2:38).

"upposing she was angry with God, do you really think bombarding her with scripture is the best way to go?"
Responding in anger and rebellion toward God is not the right response (Nu 14:9; Jos 22:19). It provokes God (Nu 16:30; Ne 9:26) and Christ (Ex 23:20,21; 1Co 10:9). It vexes the Holy Spirit (Isa 63:10).

It is connected with stubbornness (Deut 31:27), corruption (Isa 1:23), and contempt for God (Ps 107:11).
Torrey, R. (1995, c1897). The new topical text book : A scriptural text book for the use of ministers, teachers, and all Christian workers.
 
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