Fighting fire with fire will burn up the whole of the earth.

[popsthebuilder]

That's, ONE classy phrase if I don't say myself.

Yeah....I never claimed to be cultured or have class.


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[Gary K]

How is it that everyone wants to jump to conclusions?

I did not even mention the military in my opening post

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I didn't reply to your opening post. I replied to the post I quoted. That post has several allusions to the military.

If you are not alluding to the military at all in your opening post, then clarify your position as such. So far I haven't see such clarification from you. As your opening post can be read multiple ways because of it's vagueness it's pretty much self-defeating to accuse people of jumping to conclusions for you allowed this very thing to happen by your own failure to adequately describe exactly what you were speaking to.

Even on a personal level you still have an issue with scripture when you try to separate Jesus and God, and OT and NT, as somehow being in conflict. Jesus is God. God, in the OT, told Moses to tell the Israelites that the I AM had sent him to them. Jesus in the NT said He was the I AM. Thus both testaments are a revelation of who God is. One testament does not override the other in describing God. God protected Israel in the OT by both direct non-military intervention and by having the Israelites arm themselves against their enemies as is shown by the life of David and the example I showed from Abraham's life. To protect those who cannot protect themselves against violence sometimes requires armed force/violence. I find nothing in the Bible that says that is a bad thing. Why? Because we live in a world where sin is the overwhelming state of being. Not all people are under the control of God because they choose not to be under His control. To stop that kind of person from harming another person is not evil. We are told to protect those who cannot protect themselves. We are told to stand up for them, to fight for them.

The NT even tells us that Jesus could have used forces capable of violence that nothing on this earth could have stopped. He chose not to because of His mission. His mission was to die to defeat sin and death, but if the situation had required it He says He could have called upon the good angels to fight for him. Heavenly angels have more than once killed massive numbers of human beings in defence of those who could not defend themselves. I would used armed force to protect others where I most likely would not do that to protect myself. I have more than once stood up to those who would harm the harmless and weak. To roll over in these kinds of situations because I'm a Christian is not being a Christian. It is not loving my neighbor. It is not caring about my neighbor. All that evil requires to conquer the weak is for good men to do nothing.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Yeah....I never claimed to be cultured or have class.


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Yeah, that would be deceptive.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I didn't reply to your opening post. I replied to the post I quoted. That post has several allusions to the military.

If you are not alluding to the military at all in your opening post, then clarify your position as such. So far I haven't see such clarification from you. As your opening post can be read multiple ways because of it's vagueness it's pretty much self-defeating to accuse people of jumping to conclusions for you allowed this very thing to happen by your own failure to adequately describe exactly what you were speaking to.

Even on a personal level you still have an issue with scripture when you try to separate Jesus and God, and OT and NT, as somehow being in conflict. Jesus is God. God, in the OT, told Moses to tell the Israelites that the I AM had sent him to them. Jesus in the NT said He was the I AM. Thus both testaments are a revelation of who God is. One testament does not override the other in describing God. God protected Israel in the OT by both direct non-military intervention and by having the Israelites arm themselves against their enemies as is shown by the life of David and the example I showed from Abraham's life. To protect those who cannot protect themselves against violence sometimes requires armed force/violence. I find nothing in the Bible that says that is a bad thing. Why? Because we live in a world where sin is the overwhelming state of being. Not all people are under the control of God because they choose not to be under His control. To stop that kind of person from harming another person is not evil. We are told to protect those who cannot protect themselves. We are told to stand up for them, to fight for them.

The NT even tells us that Jesus could have used forces capable of violence that nothing on this earth could have stopped. He chose not to because of His mission. His mission was to die to defeat sin and death, but if the situation had required it He says He could have called upon the good angels to fight for him. Heavenly angels have more than once killed massive numbers of human beings in defence of those who could not defend themselves. I would used armed force to protect others where I most likely would not do that to protect myself. I have more than once stood up to those who would harm the harmless and weak. To roll over in these kinds of situations because I'm a Christian is not being a Christian. It is not loving my neighbor. It is not caring about my neighbor. All that evil requires to conquer the weak is for good men to do nothing.

We are in agreement


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[popsthebuilder]

Well, tell us if you think there was a 'gain' by Israel killing off every man, woman, and child of another nation.

What do you think said gain was?

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[Grosnick Marowbe]

What do you think said gain was?

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Are you in the habit of asking a question after you've been asked a question and not bothering to answer the initial question?

 

[Tambora]

So you are saying that Jesus didn't come with the truth about the law of GOD?

It was GOD that commanded to have a military and USE it to kill every man, woman, and child of a nation.

 

[popsthebuilder]

It was GOD that commanded to have a military and USE it to kill every man, woman, and child of a nation.

That isn't what I asked ma'am.

You mentioned some gain for those who carried out said "command".
I am asking simply what you think that gain was for those particular individuals. Is your own faith based on what you expect to gain? Perhaps in the afterlife?

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[meshak]

Pops, I guess I just don't understand your comments. It just so vague to me.

It seems you are avoiding the hard truth so you don't offend anyone.

It is that way in most your posts, IMO.

I guess I should not address you anymore.

peace.

 

[meshak]

Again; what makes you think I miss it?

You seem to be wholly ignoring the fact that we have been born into a society of war, and whether we agree with it or not; at this particular moment, it is needed in some cases to protect some who are being killed by other violent atrocious actions.

Is it your contention that we set wholly idly by while children are killed for shits and giggles?



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Ok I missed this.

Just because this world is killing each other that does not mean His followers should do the same.

What happened to Jesus' word His followers are not of the world?

How do you understand?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Ok I missed this.

Just because this world is killing each other that does not mean His followers should do the same.

What happened to Jesus' word His followers are not of the world?

How do you understand?

I agree that His followers aren't going to aslo be following those things of greedy desires or hate or malice or violence.

But I also hold that we aren't to set asside while the innocent (children), or needy (old) are harmed or killed. You understand the concept because you jumped my butt for not coming to your defence.

I am not promoting violence; I am speaking against it.

I don't know that even a mass of ascetics or passivists of some sort could deter some types away from harming others. So what would you suggest to stop needless violence?

I have thoughts on this that I cannot readily put to the keypad.

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[Tambora]

That isn't what I asked ma'am.

You mentioned some gain for those who carried out said "command".
I am asking simply what you think that gain was for those particular individuals. Is your own faith based on what you expect to gain? Perhaps in the afterlife?

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I did not say that there was a gain. I only asked if you thought there was a gain when GOD commanded it to be done, after you made this statement about there being any gain.

What does any gain when they recompense evil for evil? How is anything learned? Would it not instill false pride in self to damage, hurt, destroy another?

How many assets, resources, and lives are given up for the sake of the advancement of destruction?

What could it profit any to use such potential/ energy towards peacable means for all creation?

Think not of one's own attainment, but the potential we allow for through our actions for the generations to come and to blossom into.

How does one effect positive change?

Is there not One Way?



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So why does any 'gain' have to be involved at all to know that GOD most certainly approves of having a standing military army on hand.
Even GOD's chosen, Abraham, the father of our faith trained an army for battle.

Let's face it, GOD telling the army to kill every man, woman, and child of a nation doesn't sound anything like "Be diplomatic and find common ground and look for some gain in it all".
Now, this part is important to keep in mind ........
The law of love thy neighbor was already in place when GOD told them to do that.
Which makes it obvious that killing every man, woman, and child of a nation was NOT in violation of 'love thy neighbor'.
If it did violate it, then GOD just told them to sin.

 

[meshak]

I don't know that even a mass of ascetics or passivists of some sort could deter some types away from harming others. So what would you suggest to stop needless violence?

I am talking about the military.

It is vastly different from violent.

Do you not see that the world think Christ is the head of war?

Do you really think Jesus advocate His followers to go into war and kill the enemy?

How do you read where Jesus says His followers are not of the world?

 

[popsthebuilder]

I did not say that there was a gain. I only asked if you thought there was a gain when GOD commanded it to be done, after you made this statement about there being any gain.


So why does any 'gain' have to be involved at all to know that GOD most certainly approves of having a standing military army on hand.
Even GOD's chosen, Abraham, the father of our faith trained an army for battle.

Let's face it, GOD telling the army to kill every man, woman, and child of a nation doesn't sound anything like "Be diplomatic and find common ground and look for some gain in it all".
Now, this part is important to keep in mind ........
The law of love thy neighbor was already in place when GOD told them to do that.
Which makes it obvious that killing every man, woman, and child of a nation was NOT in violation of 'love thy neighbor'.
If it did violate it, then GOD just told them to sin.

To put it bluntly; because you are saying that GOD agrees with man killing man, now at this time and age; and indeed using most resources on the advancement of such on a massive scale, and you are basing this on a story in the old testament....the Truth came through Jesus. Did Jesus say to go and kill all opposition? And if you say yes then there will be no doubt to your level of discernment.

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[popsthebuilder]

I am talking about the military.

It is vastly different from violent.

Do you not see that the world think Christ is the head of war?

Do you really think Jesus advocate His followers to go into war and kill the enemy?

How do you read where Jesus says His followers are not of the world?

Please please stop assuming things that I am not saying.

If you can't tell; I do not in any way think that Jesus the Christ ever advocated war.

You bolding crazy questions as if I oppose you is only adding to confusion.

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[lifeisgood]

Do you support the military? They fight fire with fire, don't you agree?

For starters, if it were not for the brave men and women of the military you and your children would be speaking German and saying 'heil Hitler'.

 

[lifeisgood]

When you talk about love your enemy, Christians in the military comes to my mind. It is so clear but it seem you are making excuses for it.

why is that?

Let's see, your enemy is coming to kill one of your children, whom you dearly love, are you going to love your enemy or defend 'militarily' your child?

 

[meshak]

Please please stop assuming things that I am not saying.

If you can't tell; I do not in any way think that Jesus the Christ ever advocated war.

You bolding crazy questions as if I oppose you is only adding to confusion.

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this is what I mean. You question and I answer. then You say I am assuming.

You were questioning about violence and I was talking about the military.

You are the one who are making confusing questions and claim I am assuming.

I feel like talking to Jacob.

I am done.

Peace.

 

[Tambora]

To put it bluntly; because you are saying that GOD agrees with man killing man, now at this time and age;

Did not Jesus say that there were two great commandments (love GOD and love thy neighbor) that all others fell under, and that all the law and prophets hung on those two?
I just showed that killing with an army was NOT against the law of love thy neighbor.

 

[popsthebuilder]

this is what I mean. You question and I answer. then You say I am assuming.

You were questioning about violence and I was talking about the military.

You are the one who are making confusing questions and claim I am assuming.

I feel like talking to Jacob.

I am done.

Peace.

Now what spirit is that which looks to insult? You probably offended the heck out of ole Jacob.

I'm all for discussing peace or war, but being Christian's; we shouldn't look to set traps for one another. Violence through word is little compared to physical violence it would seem; but what does scripture tell is about the power of our words and the character of our heart?

peace

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