Eternal Security

[COGTHW]

You've described two different kinds of fear in the same context - motivation to work by fear of losing God's salvation and motivation to work out of fear of who God is (more a holy awe, reverence, respect and honor - but from one who is but dust and of One who is far beyond anything we can even fathom). To fear losing Him and fear "hurting"(offending) Him are two different things. One is selfish (I might lose my salvation) but the other is truly Godly love (with the best interests of the other being foremost at heart). Perfect love casts out that selfish fear (which hath torment).

And one who thinks of God as waiting on our performance before deciding if we will be saved or not (you said it was a partnership and the topic is eternal security...) reminds me of the stewards to whom God gave talents - specifically the last one. All three of these stewards worked - I agree works are important - but the one was focused on his own performance out of fear of offending the Master. They were all given talents and all were giving them back to Him. Their thought was pleasing their Master. But the third had this fear of his Master :

Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Matthew 25:24-25

The fear of offending (failing) his Master provoked him to simply protect what he had instead of thinking of what he could give to his Master. The other two might well have realized poor performance would have cost them, but it isn't final performance that the Master judged upon. In 25:15 he gave out talents according to ability - so the third steward clearly didn't have the same capability as the other two. The other two didn't return the same amount (and the Master didn't expect that) but they were commended. What the third was judged on was based on his understanding of the Master. He didn't even act consistently with that understanding. Why? Because of that fear of failing his "hard" Master. We are called to bear fruit, but if we are always in peril of losing what we have gained because of what we do, we are missing the judgement of God - which is of the heart. If He has changed the heart, it is changed.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 10:27-29

I was trying to have dialogue with you, cause you the only person that has manners and respectful. Holiness and being blameless before God is what pleases Him nothing else. You have to be righteous. For He is righteous. 1 John 3:Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.' got be to holy and blameless. Glory to God. We can go on all day but at the end of the day Holiness without such no man shall see the Kingdom of God.!

 

[Lilstu]

I hope he is.
Is your rotten stinking corrupt flesh any better than his?

Maybe you can be his room mate if he is your buddy.

 

[heir]

Search the scriptures. 12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:1-2 praying and being blameless. Hallelujah that's Hoilness. Good God Almighty. Hoilness or Hell. 'For it is written, be ye holy, for I am holy.' 1 Peter 1:16 GLORY. GLORY I SAY. Got to be be holy.!! For He that has called us is holy.!! My God my God.

Romans 12:1-2 KJV is about service! You must be saved before you can serve. You cannot serve to be saved Romans 8:8 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV, Titus 3:5-7 KJV. How were you saved?

 

[COGTHW]

Romans 12:1-2 KJV is about service! You must be saved before you can serve. You cannot serve to be saved Romans 8:8 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV, Titus 3:5-7 KJV. How were you saved?

It's obvious you don't know Scriptures, and how it's read. Which is your reasonable service mean = what you provide to the Lord for the Lord. Be good to you parents which is your reasonable service, don't mean you serving them. I was saved by the grace of God our Lord Jesus Christ. According to Acts 2:38 and John 3:5.

 

[Bright Raven]

It's obvious you don't know Scriptures, and how it's read. Which is your reasonable service mean = what you provide to the Lord for the Lord. Be good to you parents which is your reasonable service, don't mean you serving them. I was saved by the grace of God our Lord Jesus Christ. According to Acts 2:38 and John 3:5.

You believe in the false belief that baptism is required for salvation. What is required for salvation is belief in the Gospel;

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 King James Version (KJV)

15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[George Affleck]

One Scripture, that the believer after Jesus Christ went to heaven didn't get baptized of water. Not a website, that website is not going to help you. YOU need to bring one Scripture that say they was not baptized. Just one. After Jesus Christ.

YOU need to bring one Scripture that say the words, “cannot be saved without water baptism,” or “an unbaptized believer is not saved.”

 

[George Affleck]

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:11-13KJV

 

[George Affleck]

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 1 Pe 3:21KJV

This verse specifically states that baptism is not salvific but, rather, an opportunity to respond to God in recognition of our newfound good conscience.

 

[COGTHW]

YOU need to bring one Scripture that say the words, “cannot be saved without water baptism,” or “an unbaptized believer is not saved.”

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; : Show Scriptures where you see all believers after Jesus Christ didn't get baptized in water. And I'll show you where they did get baptized.

 

[COGTHW]

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 1 Pe 3:21KJV

This verse specifically states that baptism is not salvific but, rather, an opportunity to respond to God in recognition of our newfound good conscience.

If you are using that verse to justify you, good now I know you're mind is hid from the truth and you don't have Jesus Christ in you. Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.' You are so blind, the scripture say you are NOW SAVE by baptism. But not by putting away of flesh but baptism. If you read that and still say you don't have to be baptized to be saved I'm done having dialogue with you. It's in your face and you say it don't mean what it say.??? Wow.!!

 

[George Affleck]

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

This verse has been covered already. You need to learn that first.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

This verse says nothing about baptism. In fact, it states that being born again is the washing that is required for salvation. It is according to His mercy that He saved us, not by physical means.

Show Scriptures where you see all believers after Jesus Christ didn't get baptized in water. And I'll show you where they did get baptized.

Of course they got baptized. Why would they not? It was an outward symbol of what had happened by the Spirit. It is the symbol of identification with the death and resurrection of the Lord.

 

[COGTHW]

This verse has been covered already. You need to learn that first.



This verse says nothing about baptism. In fact, it states that being born again is the washing that is required for salvation. It is according to His mercy that He saved us, not by physical means.



Of course they got baptized. Why would they not? It was an outward symbol of what had happened by the Spirit. It is the symbol of identification with the death and resurrection of the Lord.

There is no need for me to continue to have dialogue with you, you read the Scriptures. If you are not baptized, you are not going to heaven. Period. Once again Jesus said it, take it up with God. Not me John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[George Affleck]

There is no need for me to continue to have dialogue with you, you read the Scriptures. If you are not baptized, you are not going to heaven. Period. Once again Jesus said it, take it up with God. Not me John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

How can a man be born of water?

 

[COGTHW]

How can a man be born of water?

To be baptized.!!

 

[Bright Raven]

You are born of water through physical birth.

 

[George Affleck]

You are born of water through physical birth.

He just can't get the "of" part!

 

[COGTHW]

He just can't get the "of" part!

so when Jesus said to be born of water that meant to be born of a woman.?

 

[George Affleck]

so when Jesus said to be born of water that meant to be born of a woman.?

In the first part of John chapter 3 Jesus and Nicodemus are discussing being born again. Jesus is explaining to Nicodemus, that, just as he was born physically, a second birth is required for salvation. If you do not allow God the freedom to say what He says you only create confusion; first for yourself, and then for others. You need to step back from it, see it in context, and allow it to be what it is. Forcing things into God's Word that are not there is a hallmark of the cults.

The Jews were all about physical worship. Nicodemus was a Pharisee and was supposed to know the ways of God. Jesus is explaining to him that salvation requires new birth; regeneration by the Spirit of God.

What Jesus said in John 3:5KJV is that a man must not be just born, but also born again in order to enter the kingdom. In this verse, being "born of water" is physical birth.

 

[marhig]

Water in the Bible is the word of God, being born of water is hearing and believing the word of God and born of the spirit is having the indwelling holy spirit in the heart. It's nothing to do with the natural birth.

 

[COGTHW]

In the first part of John chapter 3 Jesus and Nicodemus are discussing being born again. Jesus is explaining to Nicodemus, that, just as he was born physically, a second birth is required for salvation. If you do not allow God the freedom to say what He says you only create confusion; first for yourself, and then for others. You need to step back from it, see it in context, and allow it to be what it is. Forcing things into God's Word that are not there is a hallmark of the cults.

The Jews were all about physical worship. Nicodemus was a Pharisee and was supposed to know the ways of God. Jesus is explaining to him that salvation requires new birth; regeneration by the Spirit of God.

What Jesus said in John 3:5KJV is that a man must not be just born, but also born again in order to enter the kingdom. In this verse, being "born of water" is physical birth.

It's not to be born of a woman, prove it with Scripture. John 3:4 'Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?'

5 'Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.' ; Nicodemus ask Jesus the same thing, Jesus answered and said be born again from WATER. Stop fighting it you don't have no Scriptures. Prove it, prove it by the Book. You have to be born of a woman. Stop talking and post the Scriptures.