Dozer's Fixation on Rape!

[Angel4Truth]

Then explain the following, the bolded part especially, all written and conceived off the back of a turnip truck by the "maestro" himself:

"Josephine is planning to go down to the Ferguson protests dressed in klan robes and a hood, carrying a sign that says "Michael Brown Deserved To Be Shot!" and shout racial slurs at the protesters.

Josephine tells her plans to her friend Francine.

Francine says "Don't do it - they'll beat you up and rape you."

Josephine says "You're not the boss of me - I'll do what I want!"

Josephine goes down to the Ferguson protests dressed in klan robes and a hood, carrying a sign that says "Michael Brown Deserved To Be Shot!" and shouts racial slurs at the protesters.

Josephine gets beaten and raped.

Those who beat and rape Josephine are arrested and charged.

Francine comes to visit Josephine in the hospital.

Josephine whines about how unfair it was that she got beaten and raped.

Francine says "What are you talking about? You deserved to get beaten and raped. I told you not to go down there. You chose to get beaten and raped. Next time don't be such a moron"

I disagree with the wording using "deserved"
should be suffered a consequence of her poor and reckless behavior

I disagree with the wording of chose "to be beaten and raped"
Should be chose to willfully act carelessly and increase her liklihood of something bad happening to her, through her own irresponsibility.

I would have said im sorry that you are suffering the consequences of being the victim of those crimes because of your willful actions of putting yourself knowingly in harms way.

The one who assaulted and raped is NOT LESS GUILTY of their crime, because the woman in question is guilty of irresponsible behavior.

Each are bearing consequences (one jail, the other suffering) and each are responsible for their own actions.

One doesnt cancel or remove the other.

 

[ClimateSanity]

And have you noticed that some of the men in the bar didn't participate in the rape?

Yes. This is where the disconnect comes in with you and others. We are not talking about something that happens each and every time the causal factors are in place. It is a breakdown in rationality to think that just because the consequences don't always happen that there is no connection whatsoever to the causal factors. If consequences follow causal factors significantly more than in situations where causal factors are removed, there is a very good reason to think there is an actual connection.

 

[bybee]

Bybee, doser didn't say that at all. He said that a woman's actions can lead to her being raped, not that her actions would lead to her being raped. The only person I saw saying that was glorydaz with her example of the stripper.

Do you honestly believe that others' behavior/opinions should sway your own faith in Christ? I don't. If I did, I would have given up my faith right after I was raped (one of the guys who raped me was waiting to get called to be a priest) or after Steve died. Or, I would never have become a Christian because my mom, while claiming to be a Christian, burned me with cigarettes, beat me with wire coat hangers, moved in with her boyfriend while leaving a 5 lb bag of potatoes, a 2 lb bag of beans, a loaf of bread, a jar of peanut butter, a box of cereal, and a gallon of milk to feed her three teenage daughters for two weeks. I hate to imagine my life if I had allowed other people's behavior/opinions cause me to not follow Christ.

My faith in Christ has not been swayed! My faith that some who call themselves christian's don't act very christian has been reinforced here on TOL! I read His word and pay attention to what He calls us to do. He forgives. He heals. He saves. He is here for us sinners. We are all sinners.

 

[ClimateSanity]

not any more

most rapes occur because women give off mixed signals, or start something they can't stop:

You are shining light on the vampires, they better not look at this graph lest they poof into the air. Sorry. Not saying you guys are vampires. I'm making a metaphorical comparison.

 

[Quetzal]

You are shining light on the vampires, they better not look at this graph lest they poof into the air. Sorry. Not saying you guys are vampires. I'm making a metaphorical comparison.

He presented a table with no source or supporting evidence. Shaky at best.

 

[glorydaz]

The issue isn't with them saying that you'll get bitten if you go into a wolves den. That is a valid point. The issue is, that they're labeling victims as accomplices to the their own rape. Rape being a crime that once carried capital punishment, even. So, if a woman is partly responsible because she knows or should at least know that going to a frat party will result in her rape, shouldn't she also be prosecuted for there to be fair justice? If she is indeed partly responsible? This is the core of what they are saying and trying to dance around so eloquently.

I'm pretty sure being raped was more than enough "punishment" for her bad behavior, and that is not the "core" of what we're saying. People do suffer consequences for their own bad behavior....not always, but often enough.

 

[Granite]

Bottomline, more's been said about women bearing the burden for making sure they don't do something--anything--who knows what, exactly--to provoke their sexual assault than anything else.

So, maybe you gals would be better off just staying at home, out of sight, or maybe you should just wear a bag over your head when you venture into public. Better yet, maybe grab a head-to-toe garment that shrouds yourself. Pity nobody's thought of that before.

P.S. Yes, GO, this is called "sarcasm." I use it frequently. You can look the word up in your free online dictionary.:yawn:

 

[ClimateSanity]

He presented a table with no source or supporting evidence. Shaky at best.

Ask him for a source. I'm sure it will be forthcoming. I predict you won't find it credible if it doesn't support your views.

 

[Quetzal]

Ask him for a source. I'm sure it will be forthcoming. I predict you won't find it credible if it doesn't support your views.

Of all of the members here, I am most accepting to credible data.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Bottomline, more's been said about women bearing the burden for making sure they don't do something--anything--who knows what, exactly--to provoke their sexual assault than anything else.

And you continue to lie about what has been said, and ignore what has been said.

Suffering a consequence of poor decisions, and causing someone else to commit a crime are NOT the same and its been seperated for you and others a billion times now.

 

[bybee]

Yes. This is where the disconnect comes in with you and others. We are not talking about something that happens each and every time the causal factors are in place. It is a breakdown in rationality to think that just because the consequences don't always happen that there is no connection whatsoever to the causal factors. If consequences follow causal factors significantly more than in situations where causal factors are removed, there is a very good reason to think there is an actual connection.

Nobody claims it happens every time or doesn't happen every time. And nobody claims there is no causal connection.
But you see rape is not a mathematical formula!
Rape is not a set of statistics.
Rape is not a chemical equation which must balance on each side of the equal sign!
Rape is a heinous crime. It is committed by a rapist. It is not committed by a victim!

 

[Angel4Truth]

Of all of the members here, I am most accepting to credible data.

Credible data, we all receive consequences both good and bad for our own choices each and every day of our lives.

To ignore that is willful since we all know its the truth.

 

[Quetzal]

Credible data, we all receive consequences both good and bad for our own choices each and every day of our lives.

To ignore that is willful since we all know its the truth.

Sure, I mentioned before I would buy that idea on many different scenarios.

 

[Quincy]

And you continue to lie about what has been said, and ignore what has been said.

Suffering a consequence of poor decisions, and causing someone else to commit a crime are NOT the same and its been seperated for you and others a billion times now.

No, no it hasn't because blaming someone makes them an accomplice, not a victim of consequences. So either they made a poor choice but didn't deserve the crime against them, baring no burden of guilt or they did deserve it and are also guilty. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Rusha]

Rape is a heinous crime. It is committed by a rapist. It is not committed by a victim!

In the same way that carjackings, assaults, acts of terrorism, random shootings and snipers, robberies ... are ALL crimes committed by criminals. The victims did not raise these criminals or make them commit these acts.

Then again, considering the blame shifting on this thread, perhaps all of those victims in the above are to blame.

lain:

 

[Angel4Truth]

No, no it hasn't because blaming someone makes them an accomplice, not a victim of consequences. So either they made a poor choice and didn't deserve the crime against them, baring no burden of guilt or they did deserve and are also guilty. Can't have it both ways.

yes, it is both ways, in some cases, and in no case does the crime victim bear responsibility for what the criminal chose to do. But for their own actions and loss suffered.

Heres an example, a drunk/stoned mother passed out, didn't lock the door and her 3 year old got outside because they were not supervised.

A kidnapper took the child when it was seen wandering alone.

So does the mother bear responsibility for the kidnap? no, but

Does she bear responsibility for the loss of her child? you bet.

If she had not been irresponsible and neglectful, her child would be at home.

get it?

She didnt cause the kidnapper to act, she didnt ask for it, but because of her own actions, she suffers and causes her own child to suffer.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Nobody claims it happens every time or doesn't happen every time. And nobody claims there is no causal connection.
But you see rape is not a mathematical formula!
Rape is not a set of statistics.
Rape is not a chemical equation which must balance on each side of the equal sign!
Rape is a heinous crime. It is committed by a rapist. It is not committed by a victim!

?????????


Why did you post that?


I never stated otherwise.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Of all of the members here, I am most accepting to credible data.

Maybe, but I think what you consider credible is dictated by preset biases.

 

[Tambora]

I disagree with the wording using "deserved"


I disagree with the wording of chose "to be beaten and raped"

Doser doesn't.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The one woman who DOES step forward can carry the blame that the other VICTIMS will not be burdened with.

The one woman that is taking responsibility for making sure that the criminals are prosecuted for their crimes is the only one that does not share blame for the next victim.

Why would she blame herself for what something real men would never do?

Either rapists are real men or sluts are not real women.

Because regardless of how much the words "liberal" and "responsibility" are tossed about, there needs to be a loophole that will allow for boys to be boys. So much for responsibility, eh? Rapists have a pure heart until one day a woman causes them to falter.

Only in your mind.