musterion
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COGIC
Did God become flesh?
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So you believe that there are TWO God's... got it.
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The FATHER sent His SON.... Think!
Because the question about his age was just an intentional twist of his words, and a diversion from the topic, which is;
John 10:24-25 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
The fact that Jesus IS promised before Abraham existed, proves that he is the Christ. Jehovah's anointed servant.
Here is a news flash ..... the Jews were wrong. Jesus CORRECTED THEM;Rosenritter said:
John 10:34-36 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
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Again the fake "facts" from a fake "believer".
And "the ONLY true God's" son also taught us that WE can be sons, and daughters ...... Think!!
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Conflating contexts.... good job.
(Joh 1:14 KJV) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(Joh 1:18 KJV) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(Joh 3:16 KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(Joh 3:18 KJV) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(1Jn 4:9 KJV) In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
You just lied, as I know, understand, exactly who the Lord Jesus Christ is, and believe it-the man, Christ Jesus, the only begotten Son of God, the great God and Saviour, who died for my sins, and has forgiven all of my trespasses-it is called "good news," the gospel/good news of Christ.
You, in contrast, are a confirmed rejector of the gospel of Christ, again, as you assert that one's "acts," are not forgiven by the dbr, rejecting that Christ died for our sins, coming short in "acts,"as you are just another wicked fruit inspector,another "Cain, Jr.," a dirty rat, who compares other dirty rats' "acts" with his own, and thinks that "Hey, I am a dirty rat, but not as dirty as my fellow rats, as they 'act' worse than me, so I must be saved!!!"
On record.
Romans 3:4 KJV God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Yes, Christ rejector, I lie, you lie, every man/woman lies, but the difference between a lost person, such as yourself, and a forever saved, justified saint, such as myself, is that a lost person has not been convicted that he/she lies, is a liar, and thus sees no need for Christ to die for that sin, or any sin, and a saved person does, admitting that they come short, and thus are convicted, and thus rely on the Saviour's dying for that sin of lying, that trespass, having forgiven it, and all trespasses, dying for ALL OF that person's sins.
You spam that word-for-word sound byte to me, others, whenever you are challenged by your Christ rejecting, antichrist doctrine of demons. No, you just lied, as I/saved individuals understand exactly what we read, re. Christ dying for all of our sins, and forgiving all of our trespasses, and believe it; you, in contrast, read it, do not understand it, and reject it.
And save your "I forgive you," as that "act" is done by the Saviour, as He forgave all my sins/trespasses, 2000+ years ago, dying for each and every last one of them-you do not have the authority, "the goods," to forgive me, nor does your impotent, fake "Jesus," merely a man, not God in the flesh, and thus in no position to save anyone.
Get saved, enemy.
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Rosenritter
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You're be incorrect there, because he also says he is.
LA, you're going about this backwards. You're supposed to take what is stated as "IS" before worrying about the how and the why. The model has to follow the known facts and results, not the other way around of seizing hold of a model and and clinging to that in spite of the facts and known results.
Acts 20:28, the church of God hath been purchased with his own blood
Revelation 1:8, 17-18 the Alpha and Omega is the Almighty, the first and the last, he that liveth and was dead and is alive for ever more.
2 Th 2:8, more - Jesus was he that liveth and was dead and is alive for ever more
1 Timothy 2:5 - Christ Jesus is our mediator between God and men, as a ransom for all
1 Th 1:10, more - Jesus is from heaven and in heaven and shall return in like manner as he last ascended, every eye shall see him
But what are you using for your model? It sounds like you have the biblical Unitarian Greek Philosophical "perfect God" of a spirit that is cold, distant, unseeable, untouchable, and above all cannot be harmed and as such is devoid of passion or emotion, kept free from taint because it never touches the evil physical world. Sort of like a Trinity First Person concept.
Rosenritter
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I think it more likely that your explanation is the diversion. Here are problems with that explanation;
1. John 8:57 comes a couple chapters before the John 10:24-25. The definition of a topic comes at the beginning of a conversation, or else how would they know what to converse about? John 8:14 "I am the light of the world" and John 8:14 where he says that his word is also the word of God, that his Father is God above (John 8:38) and those implications. "I proceeded forth and come from God" (verse 42), "if a man keep my saying, he shall never see death." (verse 51). The topic isn't about "messiah" at all.
2. The direct question was "Thou art not fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?" Your variation of his response doesn't answer this question. It might be that poorly-disciplined TOL posters respond to questions they have not been asked, but that is not a good explanation for Jesus. Jesus is not going to be providing straw-man answers to unasked questions.
3. Even if we were to presume Jesus decided to dodge their question by answering something completely unrelated (in some sort of spaced-out glassy eyed response) his answer "Before Abraham was, I am" does not establish himself as the Messiah. The "I am" is a reference to Abraham (Genesis 17:1) which was also used to Moses at the burning bush (Exodus 3:6).
Genesis 17:1 KJV
(1) And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Before Abraham he was known as Abram, and "I am" summons the name "I am the Almighty God." Remember Jesus's declaration that he is the Almighty, the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last, he who was dead and now liveth in Revelation? Here that is again. It's not a coincidence that this keeps coming up.
News flash for you, Jesus declared himself as God Almighty twice more in that chapter, including what you just cited.
1. Just mere verses prior, meaning is self evident and explained, "thou makest thyself God."
John 10:30-33 KJV
(30) I and my Father are one.
(31) Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
(32) Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
(33) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
2. Case in point, "I am the Son of God" was also understood by the Jews as making Himself God.
John 10:36 KJV
(36) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
The reason the Jews understood his meaning (and not yourself) is because they recognized the Psalm he quoted. "I said, Ye are Gods" is the 82nd Psalm, beginning with "God ... judgeth among the gods" and ending with "Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations." Jesus had already identified himself as the judge of all men and nations, he again he made himself God.
3. You might wish to avail yourself of the BIBLICAL explanation of "Son of God" rather than Unitarian websites. One who is made like unto the Son of God is without father, without mother, having neither beginning of days nor end of life. See Hebrews 7:3. As explained to the Hebrews they this is no lesser designation.
John 19:7 KJV
(7) The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
As defined in the gospel of John and in the epistle to the Hebrews, "God" and "Son of God" are synonyms in the Jewish usage. I don't know where you are getting your meaning from, but it defies the definition provided from scripture.
Rosenritter
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Why is Jesus the only begotten Son of God then?
And are you being taught that to become the son of God, you will not have beginning and end of days, as defined of the Son of God in Hebrews?
keypurr
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Not at all, my Lord told me that his Father is the only true God and I believe him.
keypurr
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Nice to see you back Paul, love your posts. We seem to agree 90% of the time.
keypurr
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Nope, it refers to the Son of God that became flesh in the body of Jesus.
From the perspective of justification. As a Jew you already know that only God can forgive. Animal sacrifice as a mean to atone for sin remains a custom or practice for the preparation of Jesus' coming. Jesus is the Lamb.
However how much sense does it make to you to say that sacrificing an animal can atone for your sins? How much sense does it make to you to say that sacrificing a lamb can atone for a sin (of murdering) ?
In the end, only the self sacrifice of God Himself can justify the atonement of the sins of all mankind.
Here may be a close analog (or not, it's up to you to decide),
A nest of bees are to be executed due to the fact that they attacked humans. The owner of the bees would like to cut one of his own figures off in order to save his nest of bees, under the circumstance that the Law says that it's justifiable.
In this case, it doesn't make sense to just kill an innocent bee to save the rest. Justification won't work this way. It is the cutting off of the figure of the innocent man which justifies the saving.
drbrumley
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You must absolutely hate Christmas...
drbrumley
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There you have it folks.....Jesus was "just a body." Nothing special about Him at all...until the "Spirit Son" came into Him, then and only then, did Jesus become unique.
keypurr
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Are you related to the jerk in the White House?
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