Creation vs. Evolution

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Hedshaker

New member
Scientific Evidence for Creation

by Duane Gish, Ph.D.

This impact pamphlet was written by a scientist, and a science educator, and reviewed by an attorney, to provide a brief summary of the scientific evidence supporting creation. The text materials and references listed at the end together give a more thorough discussion of this scientific evidence.

Duane Gish is a Christian apologist and young Earth creationist Michael. The man is a compete nut with an agenda and totally ignored by genuine scientists. Have you never heard of the Gish Gallop


The Gish Gallop is the debating technique of drowning an opponent in such a torrent of small arguments that the opponent cannot possibly answer or address each one in real time. More often than not, these myriad arguments are full of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments — the only condition is that there be many of them, not that they be particularly compelling on their own. They may be escape hatches or "gotcha" arguments that are specifically designed to be brief, but take a long time to unravel. Thus, galloping is frequently used in timed debates (especially by creationists) to overwhelm one's opponent.


Here's a little project for you. See if you can find a peer reviewed paper by a mainstream scientist......


Good luck with that!
 

TheDuke

New member
Dear Jonahdog,

I can't say I know where, but perhaps 6days can help me with this one. An angel said to the Lord God, 'I can go and be a lying spirit to this man,' is about all that I remember. In other words, to think that God would have us see the Earth older than 6,000 years is truly up to Him. How dare you to say that God will not allow us to be tempted, to prove ourselves. Does He not hold your very soul and eternal happiness in His Hands, and you want to fly against that??!! You do not know the Grandeur of His Holiest Of Spirits, and yet you dare anyway. What is this world coming to?? That's all I have to say right now. I am appalled by the whole matter.

Shame On You!!

Michael

Dear Michael,

What a wonderful sensation, now you know exactly how every rational person feels about theists: appalled and exasperated.

You're welcome!
 

TheDuke

New member
Hi Michael

You do put things in perspective.
You, myself, 6days, and others believe in creation. We believe the current biome was created in 7 days 6000 years ago. We don't believe in evolution. We all believe in a Flood. The only thing we are arguing about is a gap.

I have stated my point how one can believe in the Bible and an old cosmos. I don't know why I am still banging on about it.
Thanks for that.

Yes the birds were created on the 5th day.

Most of all we believe in the same Jesus who created all things and who grants us salvation.


So much for seeking truth in the holy book. If you can't even agree between 6000 and 13.8 billion.
 

TheDuke

New member
Scientific Evidence for Creation

by Duane Gish, Ph.D.

This impact pamphlet was written by a scientist, and a science educator, and reviewed by an attorney, to provide a brief summary of the scientific evidence supporting creation. The text materials and references listed at the end together give a more thorough discussion of this scientific evidence.

{Quote}

I. The Universe and the Solar System Were Suddenly Created.

...

II. Life Was Suddenly Created.

...

Michael



Dear Michael,

I cannot find words for my disappointment. Was it not just days earlier, when I asked you to reconsider spreading this kind of bull.

Faith or not, as long as the religious community continues falling for this sort of anti-science, there really is no hope for you.

The first short introduction paragraph was already enough to raise all alarm bells in a sane person's mind, regardless of who wrote it.

The only positive thing I can see from this mess, is that the more "creation scientists" multiply and become more active, the likelier becomes the scenario that one day, universities will begin retracting academic titles from individuals who never deserved them :)

cheers.
 

6days

New member
The Duke said:
The only positive thing I can see from this mess, is that the more "creation scientists" multiply and become more active, the likelier becomes the scenario that one day, universities will begin retracting academic titles from individuals who never deserved them*

Just because a atheist doesn't believe in Biblical creation would not be a reason to retract a Ph'D. The atheist can still perform science equally well with creationists in most cases.*
 

6days

New member
Michael Cadry said:
Scientific Evidence for Creation

by Duane Gish, Ph.D.

This impact pamphlet was written by a scientist, and a science educator, and reviewed by an attorney, to provide a brief summary of the scientific evidence supporting creation. The text materials and references listed at the end together give a more thorough discussion of this scientific evidence.
Hey Michael

Duane Gish passed away 2 years ago. He was a giant in defending the truth of Gods Word against evolutionists. Some say that he won every debate because he would argue from science against evutionists who argued from their belief system.*

I have a DVD of him debating a guy in Australia. The evolutionist became very unhinged and wanted to electrocute Gish. Gish kept calm and kept defending science.... and the Bible. That debate won several in the audience to acxepting Christ as their Savior.

Here is a bit more about the man who has encouraged many scientists to trust the truth of Gods Word and reject compromise.
http://www.icr.org/article/duane-gish-celebrating-creation-champion/
 

iouae

Well-known member
Dear All,

I'm going to tell you what the Lord told me; the facts. I hope it helps you all and that you STUDY your Bible and the first two books of Genesis to understand. Thank you. The earth has been here for a few million years. Some of you seem to think that just by gradual changing, different species 'evolved'. Give God more credit than that. God created every creature on the earth, in each day/generation the is written in the Bible. This includes also when the dinosaurs were on earth. But, God wiped the screen blank a number of times indeed. In other words, He created and then obliterated, and formed each animal and bird, and critter and man/woman differently, each time changed in ways He saw fit. Just like He obliterated everyone but Noah and his family. There is NO EVOLUTION. Tell that to God when you see HIM. He has EVERY PART on how each animal/human was formed because He kept re-forming them and making them different each time. It's God's HANDIWORK here at stake, not "evolution's." From our own Adam and Eve being formed, this is the generation of our Adam.

You'll notice in the first chapter of Genesis, it says God "Created" each in their 'day' or 'generation' (time in which they were generated). We also cannot ascertain that, in the past million years, 24 hours was the 'day's' length then either. All that I do know is that He has revealed something to me to share with others, for their sakes. He did create the first Adam and Eve in six days and rested on the seventh. Believe me or not. It really doesn't matter. In the first chapter of Genesis, it says God created the beasts and birds, and all of that, before He created man on the sixth 'day' or 'generation'. Now follow all this closely and re-read it as much as necessary for you. In the SECOND chapter of Genesis, does it not say that the Lord God "Formed" man from the dust of the ground. And the Lord God saw that the man was lonely, and so He 'formed' the birds, and animals from the dust of the ground and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. So first, we have Adam being CREATED after the birds and beasts were CREATED, and yet in Genesis chapter two, it says the Lord God FORMED man BEFORE the beasts and birds.

You will also notice that in the first chapter, God said the fowl/birds were created from the waters, but in the second chapter, it says the Lord God FORMED the birds/fowl from the dust of the ground. Now it is time for people to know the truth because they are questioning the true existence of God. I happen to know that God CREATED man and woman once, and the Lord God wiped them from the face of the earth many times and improved man and animals and plants, etc. as He saw fit. That is why we find man's bones that are way older than 5,000 years, or "OUR" ADAM. There were Adams and Eves formed many times over the thousands of years and they were perfected and changed as the Lord God saw fit. That is why it is written, "and He called THEIR name Adam in the day they were created. That is why it is written, 'This is the book of the generations of Adam, in the image of God made he him/man.' I'm not sure that is the exact quote without looking it up right now. It is not a big matter. The Lord God has wiped the earth clean before and He will again. Remember Noah and his wife, of whom we are all descended from, therefore we are ALL Brothers and Sisters who don't get along well. Ishmael is the descendant of all of the Arab people. The next time the Lord God wipes this earth clean, He will again FORM a man from the dust of the ground, whether He forms the beasts beforehand or afterwards, and He will FORM another woman. And another book will be written for that Generation of Adam (and Eve). I hope I've explained this well enough for now. This is the Lord God's playpen down here (His VERY BELOVED CREATION) and He will change things as He will a dollhouse. It's His option. What are you going to do about it?? Forget your Evolution idea!! There is a Higher Power that oversees every little change in every creature He forms. That's all, just for now. Re-read and study, and look in your Bibles.
May the Lord God Continue to Bless the Lord Jesus,
For the Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand until I make thy enemies your footstool. He is doing just that. Can you understand any of this?? Please, if you have any comments, keep them civil and maybe kind? This is some of the info that the Lord told John of Patmos NOT to write (Rev. 10:4), when the seven thunders uttered their voices. People were not ready to handle it then, but we are ready now.

Praise His Greatness and His Intense Imagination, Which Is An Incredible Amazing Thing,

Michael Cadry


Go to the link below, then click on 'Book Copy', then SKU-text and the Title Page of my book will come up. You can then read it off your computer screen.

Michael, this post of yours from two years ago is pretty close to the truth. And you even started by saying "...the Lord told me: the facts...". If He told you, why have you changed? :)
 

alwight

New member
Gish Gallop

"The Gish Gallop is the debating technique of drowning an opponent in such a torrent of small arguments that the opponent cannot possibly answer or address each one in real time. More often than not, these myriad arguments are full of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments — the only condition is that there be many of them, not that they be particularly compelling on their own. They may be escape hatches or "gotcha" arguments that are specifically designed to be brief, but take a long time to unravel. Thus, galloping is frequently used in timed debates (especially by creationists) to overwhelm one's opponent. "
 

6days

New member
Gish Gallop

"The Gish Gallop is the debating technique of drowning an opponent in such a torrent of small arguments that the opponent cannot possibly answer or address each one in real time. More often than not, these myriad arguments are full of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments — the only condition is that there be many of them, not that they be particularly compelling on their own. They may be escape hatches or "gotcha" arguments that are specifically designed to be brief, but take a long time to unravel. Thus, galloping is frequently used in timed debates (especially by creationists) to overwhelm one's opponent. "
That was an excuse some sorry losers used..
 

alwight

New member
"Chewbacca Defense"
"A Chewbacca defense is the name given to a legal strategy in which the aim of the argument seems to be to deliberately confuse the jury rather than actually refute the case of the other side. The concept's name comes from episode 27 of the animated series South Park, "Chef Aid", which premiered on October 7, 1998. This episode satirised attorney Johnnie Cochran's closing argument defending O. J. Simpson in his murder trial. The term has since been commonly used in describing legal cases, especially criminal ones. The concept of disguising a flaw in one's argument by presenting large amounts of irrelevant information has previously been described as a red herring or the fallacy ignoratio elenchi (irrelevant conclusion)."
Source Wiki

Chewbacca Defence
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Michael, this post of yours from two years ago is pretty close to the truth. And you even started by saying "...the Lord told me: the facts...". If He told you, why have you changed? :)



Dear iouae,

The indication here is that I feel torn both ways. After talking with 6days, I was convinced otherwise. We might both be wrong, but at least we will be pure of heart by believing what the Bible says instead of believing what we THINK is says. Yes, I was quite convinced before, and now, I ponder both possible realities. I'm still not fully convinced either way, or some other way, but I think I'm On The Road To Find Out, as Cat Stevens would say. It's been a ride, and it's been unfathomable, but I wouldn't trade my life with anyone. There are A LOT of things I don't know. This is one of those times. I am torn between them both. I mean, how could God create so much in only 6 days? But then, He's God!! He does miracles that even man doesn't believe now. Heck, some of you still don't believe Jesus walked on the water, or fed thousands of people from a small basket. Or that He's returning again. Such miracles are only possible with God. No one else. So yes, I can believe that He can create everything in 6 days. I'm sure He left other details for the following 6 days, LOL. I'd rather err on the side depicted by the Bible. I've changed, to say the least. Hope this does it.

Much Love, In Jesus Christ,

Michael

:cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :rapture:
 

iouae

Well-known member
What is “Good Science”?

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/diapsids/buzz/dinoscience.html

"Disclaimer: This is a gross generalization of what science is about; science is actually much more complex than how it is described here, but this will give you a basic background if you need it.

1) Science is a human endeavor. Scientists are all human, with the typical faults and foibles that non-scientists have. Sociology, politics, psychology, and similar aspects of human nature all have a profound influence on how science is conducted.

2) Science follows certain rules and guidelines. Exactly what these rules and guidelines are depends on what area of science a specific scientific procedure falls within. The scientific method (i.e. hypotheses are formulated from observations, and theories develop from these hypotheses), sometimes cited as the one and only way that science is conducted, is not the paradigm that scientific inquiry must always follow, but it often is the best objective procedure. Science is not so monolithic and mechanical; it defies simple explanations, just like many other human endeavors.

3) Facts versus opinions. An important distinction to make clear when science is an issue is the difference between fact and opinion. "Fact" in a scientific context is a generally accepted reality (but still open to scientific inquiry, as opposed to an absolute truth, which is not, and hence not a part of science). Hypotheses and theories are generally based on objective inferences, unlike opinions, which are generally based on subjective influences. For example, "I am a humorous person" is certainly an opinion, whereas "if I drop this glass, it will break" could best be called a hypothesis, while "the Earth orbits the Sun," or "evolution occurs over time," or "gravity exists" are all today considered to be both facts and theories (and could possibly turn out to be wrong).

Opinions are neither fact nor theory; they are not officially the domain of science (but don't go thinking that scientists don't have opinions — they are only human, and opinions often help to guide their research). Thus, science cannot directly address such issues as whether God exists or whether people are good or bad.

4) Science generally uses the formulation of falsifiable hypotheses developed via systematic empiricism. Hypotheses that cannot ever be disproven are not real science. Hypotheses are generally formed by observing whatever it is you are studying, with the objective of understanding the nature of the subject (this is systematic empiricism). Many scientists hold the belief that a hypothesis cannot ever be proven, only disproven. This especially holds in historical sciences like paleontology, where a time machine would be the only true way to prove a hypothesis.

5) Acceptance of scientific ideas is based on a process of publication and peer review. To become a legitimate theory (but still not established fact), a hypothesis must be subjected to the approval of a scientist's peers and published in an accredited scientific journal. This process keeps the charlatans out of science (well, it is supposed to, at least, ha ha). Most significantly, this helps to maintain science as a process rather than a gradual accumulation of facts, ever creeping forward towards omniscience. Theories tend to persist until a better theory is proposed and gains broad acceptance, rather than new theories being proposed for every tiny fact that is deduced. This fact and the influence of human nature on science are running themes throughout this section of the UCMP on-line museum.

6) Replication is also vital to good science — for the scientific community to accept a finding, other investigators must be able to duplicate the original investigator's findings. Thus, you cannot make up your data; other scientists must be able to follow the same methods you used (whether experimentation, mathematical calculations, formulating major concepts, measuring data, or whatever) and come up with the same results.

Even among paleontologists studying dinosaurs, these principles are sometimes violated. A prime example, pervasive throughout evolutionary thought, is the adaptive story. Adaptive stories take a mysterious feature whose origin is not well understood, and propose an unfalsifiable hypothesis to explain it. For example: We do not yet understand why feathers were evolved somewhere along the non-avian theropod to bird transition. An adaptive story to explain it would be that the feathers were evolved to catch insects with, and then were "co-opted" for flight. Sounds convincing (as many such stories do), but still just a story. The sad truth is that many such problems are essentially unsolvable; we will never know exactly how or why feathers evolved. "Why" questions are some of the most difficult questions to answer when referring to evolution; evolution does not ask why. That is the frustrating reality that makes paleontology hard work.

Another brief example of non-science is the unpublished hypothesis. Wild, controversial hypotheses (often in the form of television "sound bites") are hungrily accepted by the public (who cannot be blamed for not knowing better). For ideas to become accepted in the scientific community, ideas must be published (undergoing the process of peer review) to separate the good science from the bad science. Even still, some not-so-good science still leaks into publications, so scientists must think critically when reviewing other's work.

Drawings of reconstructed dinosaurs and other depictions of them in the media are not pure science, but a blending of inference from scientific data with a dose of imagination and speculation. We don't know if some non-avian dinosaurs had feathers, but some artists do choose to illustrate them so. Science cannot say whether they did have feathers or not unless it has evidence."
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Duane Gish is a Christian apologist and young Earth creationist Michael. The man is a compete nut with an agenda and totally ignored by genuine scientists. Have you never heard of the Gish Gallop

Here's a little project for you. See if you can find a peer reviewed paper by a mainstream scientist......

Good luck with that!


Dear Hedshaker,

Well, I looked where you said. It is a possibly compelling idea but probably one put there by an evolutionist. There are two sides to a coin. I can imagine one would say that about someone who was WINNING arguments. I do care about you, Hedshaker, so I will consider it and ponder it. I weigh things carefully in the balance and do my best to reach a reasonable decision. Yes, I'm a Libra, just for the record. I'm 60 now, Hedshaker, and I have found out that with age, comes wisdom. Of course, there are advantages of being young again too. But would I like to live this life over again? I doubt it. Only if I could have changed a handful of decisions.

Hey, get out there and sell some music. Have faith!!

Tons Of Love Coming At You!!

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Dear Michael,

What a wonderful sensation, now you know exactly how every rational person feels about theists: appalled and exasperated.

You're welcome!



Dear TheDuke,

I suppose you get your FAIR share of heaping upon by going against the belief in God or Jesus, or the Holy Ghost, or the angels. Who is the rational one here? How many are numbered as atheists? What a LARGE group. You are in the minority to say the least and that is because it is you who isn't rational. Did you EVER think of THAT? There are more Christians, Or Muslims, Or Buddhists, Or Hindus, etc. So I wouldn't talk about it if I were you. Of course, I still care for you even though we don't agree. I'm a Christian and was taught that way. Praise God!!

Best Wishes!!

Michael

:guitar: :guitar: :singer: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:
 

iouae

Well-known member

Dear iouae,

The indication here is that I feel torn both ways. After talking with 6days, I was convinced otherwise. We might both be wrong, but at least we will be pure of heart by believing what the Bible says instead of believing what we THINK is says. Yes, I was quite convinced before, and now, I ponder both possible realities. I'm still not fully convinced either way, or some other way, but I think I'm On The Road To Find Out, as Cat Stevens would say. It's been a ride, and it's been unfathomable, but I wouldn't trade my life with anyone. There are A LOT of things I don't know. This is one of those times. I am torn between them both. I mean, how could God create so much in only 6 days? But then, He's God!! He does miracles that even man doesn't believe now. Heck, some of you still don't believe Jesus walked on the water, or fed thousands of people from a small basket. Or that He's returning again. Such miracles are only possible with God. No one else. So yes, I can believe that He can create everything in 6 days. I'm sure He left other details for the following 6 days, LOL. I'd rather err on the side depicted by the Bible. I've changed, to say the least. Hope this does it.

Much Love, In Jesus Christ,

Michael

:cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :rapture:

Hi Michael

I am glad you still retain an open mind on this subject.

In science it is considered an essential mindset to retain an open mind, to examine new hypotheses, to test these hypotheses, to reject the wrong ones and retain the proven ones. This is exactly what Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." I update my religion beliefs, and science beliefs all the time. So I am pleased to hear you have not stopped proving all things.

In theological circles it is seen as a sign of weakness or lack of faith to retain an open mind on issues of doctrine. Some, with mindsets cast in stone, call those who disagree with their interpretation of scripture "heretics" and try to browbeat others. This is lousy science, lousy theology, and lousy manners. But this kind of dogmatism is prised in the religious community.

When I have stated my point of view, and find that others are of an unteachable disposition, I just move on. Some in theological circles interpret this as surrender, and feel that they have won the argument.

When scientists argue with the likes of Gish or Hovind, these scientists give up because they recognise that Gish and Hovind lack the fundamental scientific approach of keeping an open mind, they recognise that lay members of the audience will be fooled by Gish and Hovins's arguments, but that an audience of scientists would not be, so they give up because it is not worth the energy trying to teach Gish and Hovind science 101. And science 101 is "entertain your hypothesis as "THE TRUTH" but always be open to new hypotheses which may come along". This kind of flexibility is anathema to most religious folks like Gish and Hovind. I love to listen to Gish, Hovind, Carl Baugh and other one-theme speakers because I consider it a game to spot the bad science in their rehearsed arguments.

I was checking through this thread to see how far back the usual old suspects have been punting their ideas, and whether any have been prepared to actually LISTEN and CHANGE.

Even if you have changed for the worse you still go up highly in my estimation in that you did the theologically and scientifically correct thing of keeping an open mind. And while you continue to do that (which is so unusual), you will grow, and the Spirit will continue to lead you to all truth.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

With long threads like this, where all arguments have been aired, the temptation is to just cut-and-paste past answers. There is no more thinking involved.

Anyway, look after yourself my friend.

On the cooking story, sorry I was a bit unclear. It was the making of fig preserve which took half a day. And that white sap from figs is so caustic that it made my fingertips tender to the point I thought I might not be able to type.
 
Last edited:

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hey Michael

Duane Gish passed away 2 years ago. He was a giant in defending the truth of Gods Word against evolutionists. Some say that he won every debate because he would argue from science against evutionists who argued from their belief system.*

I have a DVD of him debating a guy in Australia. The evolutionist became very unhinged and wanted to electrocute Gish. Gish kept calm and kept defending science.... and the Bible. That debate won several in the audience to acxepting Christ as their Savior.

Here is a bit more about the man who has encouraged many scientists to trust the truth of Gods Word and reject compromise.
http://www.icr.org/article/duane-gish-celebrating-creation-champion/


Dear 6days,

Thanks so extremely much for your information about Duane Gish. I can see now why evolutionists were so taken aback by him. I could learn all kinds of valuable pointers and tips on how to defend Creationism. I think he was a great man from what I've read. I could have learned a lot from him. Well, I'm sure it's not the last time I'll quote him. Who is better?? Thanks again, 6days!!

Tons Of Love Coming Your Way!!

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
"Chewbacca Defense"
"A Chewbacca defense is the name given to a legal strategy in which the aim of the argument seems to be to deliberately confuse the jury rather than actually refute the case of the other side. The concept's name comes from episode 27 of the animated series South Park, "Chef Aid", which premiered on October 7, 1998. This episode satirised attorney Johnnie Cochran's closing argument defending O. J. Simpson in his murder trial. The term has since been commonly used in describing legal cases, especially criminal ones. The concept of disguising a flaw in one's argument by presenting large amounts of irrelevant information has previously been described as a red herring or the fallacy ignoratio elenchi (irrelevant conclusion)."
Source Wiki

Chewbacca Defence


Dear alwight,

Thanks for the explanation and cartoon. So you heard about O.J. Simpson over there in England? I had no idea. It lasted for a LONG time. He's in jail now, but for another charge. Anyway, I can see what you are trying to say and that it is similar to what you call a 'Gish Gallop.' I still am glad that God provided us with Duane Gish. Someone who could debate for us. Did you check out the article that 6days linked to in his post? I learned more about Duane.

Well, 2morrow I go to the radiation therapy and then to the Dentist. I saw the Oncologist (Cancer Dr.) today. It turns out that every Wed., I'll be seeing him. I'm glad. I thought I'd never see him again. They are providing good services to me there. I'm so thankful for that. They don't keep me waiting in the waiting room longer than 3 mins. It's wonderful!!

Well, thanks for the Gish Gourmet {LOL}. You take good care of yourself and will chat soon. Yep, I know I'm off-topic, but it is my thread, so whatever.

Have A Pleasant, Joyful Day Tomorrow,

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
So much for seeking truth in the holy book. If you can't even agree between 6000 and 13.8 billion.



Dear TheDuke,

I wouldn't believe it even if it were 'only' 1.0 million being stipulated. Were you there a million years ago to give us a firsthand account? Could any of your scientists be an eye witness? They like to use fantastic numbers so no one will try to argue with them.

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hi Michael

I am glad you still retain an open mind on this subject.

In science it is considered an essential mindset to retain an open mind, to examine new hypotheses, to test these hypotheses, to reject the wrong ones and retain the proven ones. This is exactly what Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." I update my religion beliefs, and science beliefs all the time. So I am pleased to hear you have not stopped proving all things.

In theological circles it is seen as a sign of weakness or lack of faith to retain an open mind on issues of doctrine. Some, with mindsets cast in stone, call those who disagree with their interpretation of scripture "heretics" and try to browbeat others. This is lousy science, lousy theology, and lousy manners. But this kind of dogmatism is prised in the religious community.

When I have stated my point of view, and find that others are of an unteachable disposition, I just move on. Some in theological circles interpret this as surrender, and feel that they have won the argument.

When scientists argue with the likes of Gish or Hovind, these scientists give up because they recognise that Gish and Hovind lack the fundamental scientific approach of keeping an open mind, they recognise that lay members of the audience will be fooled by Gish and Hovins's arguments, but that an audience of scientists would not be, so they give up because it is not worth the energy trying to teach Gish and Hovind science 101. And science 101 is "entertain your hypothesis as "THE TRUTH" but always be open to new hypotheses which may come along". This kind of flexibility is anathema to most religious folks like Gish and Hovind. I love to listen to Gish, Hovind, Carl Baugh and other one-theme speakers because I consider it a game to spot the bad science in their rehearsed arguments.

I was checking through this thread to see how far back the usual old suspects have been punting their ideas, and whether any have been prepared to actually LISTEN and CHANGE.

Even if you have changed for the worse you still go up highly in my estimation in that you did the theologically and scientifically correct thing of keeping an open mind. And while you continue to do that (which is so unusual), you will grow, and the Spirit will continue to lead you to all truth.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

With long threads like this, where all arguments have been aired, the temptation is to just cut-and-paste past answers. There is no more thinking involved.

Anyway, look after yourself my friend.

On the cooking story, sorry I was a bit unclear. It was the making of fig preserve which took half a day. And that white sap from figs is so caustic that it made my fingertips tender to the point I thought I might not be able to type.



Dear iouae,

I agree with most of what you have to say here. Long post, but just fine regardless.

So, are you telling me that you just made fig preserves? I guess they would be ripe now according to what state you live in. My Dad liked them ripened or dried. I do too. I do like the dried figs though best. So they are hard on the fingertips, eh? I empathize with you, but I do not know the sensation because I've never done it. I bet they taste good though. Sounds like they are definitely worth it. Do you have a fig tree in the yard? My Dad did! They grow quite well out here in Arizona.

Well, you take good care and thanks for understanding. You sound like a very good person and I'm glad to get to know you as the weeks go by!!

Much Love, In Jesus Christ,

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :cloud9: :guitar: :singer:
 

alwight

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Dear 6days,

Thanks so extremely much for your information about Duane Gish. I can see now why evolutionists were so taken aback by him. I could learn all kinds of valuable pointers and tips on how to defend Creationism. I think he was a great man from what I've read. I could have learned a lot from him. Well, I'm sure it's not the last time I'll quote him. Who is better?? Thanks again, 6days!!

Tons Of Love Coming Your Way!!

Michael
Most scientists aren't in the least bit interested in debating with YECs Michael because they don't offer an honest science debate or any creationist "science" that stands up to scientific scrutiny.

Neil deGrasse Tyson on religious people
 
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