Creation vs. Evolution

[MichaelCadry]

Most scientists aren't in the least bit interested in debating with YECs Michael because they don't offer an honest science debate or any creationist "science" that stands up to scientific scrutiny.

Neil deGrasse Tyson on religious people

Dear alwight,

Hey pal, how are you doing?? I've got to admit that I am not necessarily talking about scientists, but rather more like 'evolutionists.' Still, I don't think that scientists always know what is really true about certain occurrences, especially the Virgin Birth, the Great Flood, Jesus Walking On Water, Jesus raising a man from the dead, the Parting of the Dead Sea, etc. I KNOW ALL of these things did happen. So the scientist debating me would fall down regarding these instances, also including Jesus turning water into wine. He DID IT!! Things that are hard to believe are God's Specialty. Otherwise, He would not be Worshiped or Revered, or set apart in any way from anyone else. Alwight, I sometimes don't know what to tell you except that sometimes we belief differently. You are missing out on a Wonderful Being, Who could give you eternal life. But you don't love Him and you have to love Jesus too. Jesus said, "No man cometh to the Father, except by Me." So your hurdle to simply believe in God won't help, unless you also then believe in His Son, our Savior, Jesus Christ. Narrow is the way into Heaven. Thank God I was raised correctly! I love God and Jesus, and the Holy Ghost, and the angels so VERY MUCH!! They are my family and I desire to be with them ASAP!! But I will wait forever, if I have to. I love you too, Al, because I can tell who you are by what I've read from you so far. You are different than most agnostics. You have a big heart and you are loyal and friendly. And you are so loving and that is what God puts in a person's heart, because God IS Love! No one can LOVE without Him putting that feeling in their heart. Well, alwight, maybe someday you will be so blessed to love God and Jesus. That's all up to you. Don't do it because you want to go to Heaven. Do it instead because of the feelings of Love you have for God and Jesus in your being. That's the best advice I can give you. I love God like He is the finest Treasure above all possible Treasures, and that He is the best Father and Boss a person could ever have. Well, this is getting long, so I guess I should get going. May God Look Favorably Upon You And Your Heart!!

Much Love, In Jesus Christ {the Love According to how Jesus loved everyone, including His disciples},

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Me & 6days 12-10-15

Me & 6days 12-10-15

The word scientists is inaccurate. It was evoluionists and those who compromised or rejected scripture that argued with Gish.*For ex google and watch a short half hour debate with Phil Donahue.. Whose side would you be on Iouae? I suspect you would try squiggle and find compromise between the two?

Gish was a stalwart defender of science and scripture. *Gish was one of a very few scientists who were willing to take a stand for God and the truth of his Word. Because of his courage and those like him, there are now thousands of scientists, i virtually every field of science, and in almost every country of the world who uphold God's Word as a source of absolute truth.*

As Christians we should believe that the word of our God stands forever. We do not need add new and secular opinions to scripture to try make it more attractive. "Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won't be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth. Eph.4:4

Dear 6days,

Yes, I am very proud of Duane Gish for all he has done in his life. He was phenomenal. Not many like him! And I'm glad he paved the way for other scientists to be free to speak what they feel and how they believe, without getting ridiculed. People will someday realize how pivotal Gish was. Thanks again for your link, 6days.

Tons Of Love Coming Your Way!!

Michael

:angel: :angel: :cloud9: :cloud9: :rapture: :guitar:
​

 

[MichaelCadry]

Let me guess that the answer you will get will be about the two-way speed of light, and "The data shows our universe has a light horizon radius of 46 Billion light years. You confuse distance with age. You confuse data and interpretations."

This will not be a satisfactory scientific answer.

I asked and did not get an answer for the stratification.

Instead I got a whole lot of side issues and pontifications. This time I hope for a straight-to-the-point answer.

And 6days, if you have no scientific background, it is OK to say so. It is also OK in science to admit that you do not know everything. It is OK to admit that your YEC is just a belief, and that nothing that science says will change your mind anyway. After all, you seem to collect and regurgitate random bits of science that you have seen other YEC'ists use. Then you reject all other reputable science. That is very unscientific. Especially since you don't seem to have the scientific background to evaluate how weak these YEC arguments really are.

If one is not going to be persuaded by science (since your mind is made up, a priori by your theology) do you not see the irony in trying to prove your point (YEC) using supposed scientific arguments? You are thus both using and dismissing science at the same time. True science is supposed to be guided by the facts. Thus you are a self confessed non-scientist since you will be guided by theology first and foremost no matter the facts. And pontificating about what true science is, while acting the opposite, by refusing to be guided by the facts, is laughable.

Dear iouae,

You are selling 6days a bit short. That is putting it mildly. 6days is one of the smartest YECs I know. And I have many friends who are also YECs. I think 6days is more lenient than many. YEC does not have to be a science. It is a way of believing and thinking, and the facts according to Moses, given him from the Lord God. If God has another interpretation of it, we will find out when we croak, if not sooner. I mean, what does Genesis tell us? Just what 6days is saying. How much clearer can you be. Are we supposed to believe 6days is wrong for believing the Creation story? I don't claim to have all of the answers, but I do feel that 6days is quite remarkable and he sure holds his own considering there are maybe three people here who believe in the Creation story in Genesis, namely you: iouae, then 6days, and myself. We are a dying breed, I guess. But we really have only one way to believe in Creation and that is the way 6days believes in it. Any other rendition takes seeing things into Genesis which are just not there.

Know Who Your Friends Are!!

Michael

:guitar: :singer: :singer: :angel: :cloud9: :angel:
​

 

[iouae]

Dear iouae,

You are selling 6days a bit short. That is putting it mildly. 6days is one of the smartest YECs I know. And I have many friends who are also YECs. I think 6days is more lenient than many. YEC does not have to be a science. It is a way of believing and thinking, and the facts according to Moses, given him from the Lord God. If God has another interpretation of it, we will find out when we croak, if not sooner. I mean, what does Genesis tell us? Just what 6days is saying. How much clearer can you be. Are we supposed to believe 6days is wrong for believing the Creation story? I don't claim to have all of the answers, but I do feel that 6days is quite remarkable and he sure holds his own considering there are maybe three people here who believe in the Creation story in Genesis, namely you: iouae, then 6days, and myself. We are a dying breed, I guess. But we really have only one way to believe in Creation and that is the way 6days believes in it. Any other rendition takes seeing things into Genesis which are just not there.

Know Who Your Friends Are!!

Michael

:guitar: :singer: :singer: :angel: :cloud9: :angel:
​

Michael, two years ago you believed a history of the world similar to what I believe today, which you said the Lord showed you. It was of an old earth and multiple creation events. THAT was a wonderful piece of insight.

6days is free to express his religious beliefs.
If he says that science supports his YEC beliefs, then he must man-up and produce the science.
If he is correct then he has nothing to fear.

If he is wrong, he must do what a good scientist does, admit it and move on. In this way, science is more honest than religion. Science does not claim to "know it all". Science is happy to admit that all they have is a "working hypothesis". Science learns when the experiment proves them right AND when the experiment proves them wrong.

I consider everything I believe in both the scientific and theological domain, to be a "working hypothesis" which I am prepared to dump if proven wrong. Thus I would be extremely grateful to 6days if he can shine light on my errors.

Michael, you are a people-person. That is obviously your strong suite. This debate is not about friendship, but about truth. True scientists have been able to hotly debate scientific issues while still remaining friends, since to them, the pursuit of TRUTH is all important. If they want friendship, then they buy a dog, or go on Facebook.

You must be an "owl" since you are always the last person posting at night

I am praying for you during your radiation treatment.
Do not let anything steal your joy or your peace.

 

[alwight]

Dear iouae,

You are selling 6days a bit short. That is putting it mildly. 6days is one of the smartest YECs I know. And I have many friends who are also YECs. I think 6days is more lenient than many. YEC does not have to be a science. It is a way of believing and thinking, and the facts according to Moses, given him from the Lord God. If God has another interpretation of it, we will find out when we croak, if not sooner. I mean, what does Genesis tell us? Just what 6days is saying. How much clearer can you be. Are we supposed to believe 6days is wrong for believing the Creation story? I don't claim to have all of the answers, but I do feel that 6days is quite remarkable and he sure holds his own considering there are maybe three people here who believe in the Creation story in Genesis, namely you: iouae, then 6days, and myself. We are a dying breed, I guess. But we really have only one way to believe in Creation and that is the way 6days believes in it. Any other rendition takes seeing things into Genesis which are just not there.

Know Who Your Friends Are!!

Michael

I took off all Michael's unusual formatting to read it.

 

[6days]

Well the funny thing is that science keeps proving evolutionist arguments faulty that they have used against the Geneais account.

I can't really account for the nonsense that you are willing to treat us to 6days.

Well... lets do some 'accounting'.

Would you care to discuss any of the icons of *evolutionism from the past?

For example a "useless" appendix was used as a proof of common ancestry. Oops....science proved that wrong, so now evolutionists claim a useful appendix is proof of evolution.That shows the unfalsifiable nature of the belief system.

Thats one example of science showing evolutionist arguments to poorly designed...there are many others such as the 'poorly designed' vertebrate eye.....Lucy.....psuedogenes.....Neandertals.....junk DNA......etc

 

[MichaelCadry]

Let me guess that the answer you will get will be about the two-way speed of light, and "The data shows our universe has a light horizon radius of 46 Billion light years. You confuse distance with age. You confuse data and interpretations."

This will not be a satisfactory scientific answer.

I asked and did not get an answer for the stratification.

Instead I got a whole lot of side issues and pontifications. This time I hope for a straight-to-the-point answer.

And 6days, if you have no scientific background, it is OK to say so. It is also OK in science to admit that you do not know everything. It is OK to admit that your YEC is just a belief, and that nothing that science says will change your mind anyway. After all, you seem to collect and regurgitate random bits of science that you have seen other YEC'ists use. Then you reject all other reputable science. That is very unscientific. Especially since you don't seem to have the scientific background to evaluate how weak these YEC arguments really are.

If one is not going to be persuaded by science (since your mind is made up, a priori by your theology) do you not see the irony in trying to prove your point (YEC) using supposed scientific arguments? You are thus both using and dismissing science at the same time. True science is supposed to be guided by the facts. Thus you are a self confessed non-scientist since you will be guided by theology first and foremost no matter the facts. And pontificating about what true science is, while acting the opposite, by refusing to be guided by the facts, is laughable.

Dear iouae,

I don't mind saying that my conclusions come from my belief in the
Bible, not just in Genesis, but throughout. For me, science is not the last word on every subject. I put science second to the Word of God {first}. I don't buy this 46 Billion light years whatsoever. Who is doing the testing and how do they arrive at the conclusion that their dating or distance measuring is even correct. They've been wrong before about a number of things, including carbon-14 dating. I suppose 6days will answer this question also, since it is addressed to him. I just couldn't help but mention my beliefs also. Thanks for bending an ear!!

God Knows The Truth About The Matter, Right?

Michael

:cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :rapture:
​

 

[MichaelCadry]

I have often spoken with scientists about evolution, and used the word “evolutionist” in both the sense of a scientist who is involved in evolutionary studies, and in the sense of someone who simply believes in the theory. And with the exception of creationists, the listener understood from the context which meaning was being used.

Ping - Re: “God’s Word”, I am awaiting your overdue response to a prior post about where an eye witness to the creation personally testified as to what he saw.

Dear DavisBJ,

I'd love to check out your eye witness to the premise that the earth is over 10,000 years old. Much less your millions of miles! Or one eye witness about the Universe being older than 10,000 years old. Are you the one who Creates Miracles or is it God??

The Very Best To You Today!!

Michael

 

[iouae]

Well... lets do some 'accounting'.

Would you care to discuss any of the icons of *evolutionism from the past?*

No. Alwight would like you to address the two hard-science questions HE asked, viz. age of light from stars, and fossil stratification.

 

[MichaelCadry]

So, not one straight answer to my 3 questions.
Just the usual tactic of generating your own questions and answering these instead. Let's call this "distraction". I am not a child to be distracted from MY questions with your straw men. And on the "strata" question you act like you don't understand the question, or play-dumb.

So far we have 1) filibustering 2) distraction 3) play-dumb

You have learned well from Gish, Hovind etc.

If someone were to question me on finance, it would quickly become apparent to him that I know little. I may think I am hiding my ignorance and holding my own. But by my use of terms, lack of basic financial concepts etc. to those trained in finance it would be obvious that I am just a financial hobbyist.

The same thing can be said about you and science. I can tell you have no training in this field you pretend to be an expert in. That is why you cannot give a straight answer to your science qualifications.

That is why when you do make an attempt at a scientific answer, you don't realise how inadequate it is. You are out of your depth. Not that that deterred Hovind, who got all his qualifications from the Internet School of Quackery or the equivalent of his day.. Which is why you tell me to go Google the answers. You have none yourself.

And please do not bother to quote scripture. I believe every single scripture. These too testify against you.

6days never said he was an expert in the field of science. He just knows quite enough and I am impressed with how knowledgeable he is. The fact that you all gang up on him is ridiculous and unfair. There are 4 or more atheists/ agnostics/ evolutionists against one YEC. Do you think that is fair by any chance? Are you a Christian, iouae? Are you a Christian Scientist? What is going on? You don't believe in Genesis the same way that 6days does, I can see that. If God 'lied' about the Creation story in Genesis, or meant it's hidden meaning to be something else than what was presented, He will tell us when we face Him. Please give 6days a real break and quit ganging up on him. You should be helping us instead, iouae. You remind me of noguru. He said he was a Christian, but he believed more in evolution than anything else. He was definitely an atheistic supporter.

Michael
​

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael, two years ago you believed a history of the world similar to what I believe today, which you said the Lord showed you. It was of an old earth and multiple creation events. THAT was a wonderful piece of insight.

6days is free to express his religious beliefs.
If he says that science supports his YEC beliefs, then he must man-up and produce the science.
If he is correct then he has nothing to fear.

If he is wrong, he must do what a good scientist does, admit it and move on. In this way, science is more honest than religion. Science does not claim to "know it all". Science is happy to admit that all they have is a "working hypothesis". Science learns when the experiment proves them right AND when the experiment proves them wrong.

I consider everything I believe in both the scientific and theological domain, to be a "working hypothesis" which I am prepared to dump if proven wrong. Thus I would be extremely grateful to 6days if he can shine light on my errors.

Michael, you are a people-person. That is obviously your strong suite. This debate is not about friendship, but about truth. True scientists have been able to hotly debate scientific issues while still remaining friends, since to them, the pursuit of TRUTH is all important. If they want friendship, then they buy a dog, or go on Facebook.

You must be an "owl" since you are always the last person posting at night

I am praying for you during your radiation treatment.
Do not let anything steal your joy or your peace.

Dear iouae,

Like I said, iouae, I believed that two years ago, but now I believe in something more cogent to me. Do I think God has spent a million years just creating the Earth and it's inhabitants and foliage? No, I don't. He doesn't need THAT much time. He is God. He said He created things in 6 days. That's what He says in Genesis chapter one.

The fact is that the Heavens and Earth, and it's flora, fauna, freshwater and marine life, bugs, creatures, and man were all created in the space of a week. I can't get past that. It says 6 days and there's no getting around it unless we can say a day is not 24 hours. It would need to be that a day would have to be a million years instead. He said that He created Heaven and man in the same week. Can't get past that. So, this is how I believe now, iouae. What would God do with 3.8 billion years of time to create everything. Especially when He says it took 6 days, and that He rested on the 7th day, just like He sanctified the 7th day and commanded man not to do work on that day. You probably still think that the Sabbath is on Sunday, but it is on Saturday. See how wrong we can be about things?

No, I now believe the same way 6days does. My former beliefs are past me. What is God going to spend 13.8 billion years doing?? He's not that slow, is He? It is written that He speaks something into existence. It says He created woman in one day, after causing a deep sleep upon the man from whose rib He created her. Do you think He took a month to do that also, instead of during a day or a few hours, or an hour, etc. God is the Author of Miracles, and a Master Chemist and Biologist, etc.

Now, iouae, if I had to stake my soul on it, I would have to say I do not know positively either way. Why lose my soul for something so stupid? That is why I choose to find out when I face God and let Him tell me then what went on. I do not have to know right away, to be honest. Why should I possibly misquote the scriptures/Bible and fear God's Wrath coming down on me for teaching His children lies? I'd rather not. Okay, buddy, that is it for me. You must make up your own mind whether you need an answer before you go to Heaven, or afterwards. You do risk believing in a lie though. Not too smart!! I'd rather believe in 6 days, thank you. Do not let the devil try to tell you errors. It is better to NOT be deceived by Satan.

Thank you for your prayers for my health, iouae. Yes, I am a night owl, for sure. I even arranged my radiation treatments to not conflict with my sleeping hours. And yes, I am a people person. I love people deeply and consider them brothers and sisters of mine, being descended from Noah and his family. We're ALL related.

May God Help You As You Ponder Things!!

Michael

:guitar: :singer: :singer: :cloud9: :angel: :angel:
​

 

[alwight]

Dear alwight,

Hey pal, how are you doing?? I've got to admit that I am not necessarily talking about scientists, but rather more like 'evolutionists.' Still, I don't think that scientists always know what is really true about certain occurrences, especially the Virgin Birth, the Great Flood, Jesus Walking On Water, Jesus raising a man from the dead, the Parting of the Dead Sea, etc. I KNOW ALL of these things did happen.

I don't actually KNOW that these things didn't happen but truly miraculous events simply don't seem to happen these days and I very much suspect that they never have Michael. Exactly how do you think you KNOW?

So the scientist debating me would fall down regarding these instances, also including Jesus turning water into wine. He DID IT!! Things that are hard to believe are God's Specialty. Otherwise, He would not be Worshiped or Revered, or set apart in any way from anyone else.

You don't win arguments by asserting what you think you know Michael, you need something substantive and evidential that other people can check out too. Scientists can't debate about what you think you know, and you haven't won any argument if they don't bother to try.

Alwight, I sometimes don't know what to tell you except that sometimes we belief differently. You are missing out on a Wonderful Being, Who could give you eternal life. But you don't love Him and you have to love Jesus too. Jesus said, "No man cometh to the Father, except by Me." So your hurdle to simply believe in God won't help, unless you also then believe in His Son, our Savior, Jesus Christ. Narrow is the way into Heaven. Thank God I was raised correctly! I love God and Jesus, and the Holy Ghost, and the angels so VERY MUCH!! They are my family and I desire to be with them ASAP!! But I will wait forever, if I have to. I love you too, Al, because I can tell who you are by what I've read from you so far. You are different than most agnostics. You have a big heart and you are loyal and friendly. And you are so loving and that is what God puts in a person's heart, because God IS Love! No one can LOVE without Him putting that feeling in their heart. Well, alwight, maybe someday you will be so blessed to love God and Jesus. That's all up to you. Don't do it because you want to go to Heaven. Do it instead because of the feelings of Love you have for God and Jesus in your being. That's the best advice I can give you. I love God like He is the finest Treasure above all possible Treasures, and that He is the best Father and Boss a person could ever have. Well, this is getting long, so I guess I should get going. May God Look Favorably Upon You And Your Heart!!

Don't worry about me Michael, deal with this life in your own way using whatever helps you. If I am anything like the person you think I am then your God would know it too. I really wouldn't want to spend eternity with a hard hearted god who didn't use compassion, common sense and rationality, who condemned people eternally for not dogmatically conforming to one specific human religious doctrine during this one brief lifetime.

Much Love, In Jesus Christ {the Love According to how Jesus loved everyone, including His disciples},

Michael

I'm not convinced that Jesus was anything more than a man Michael, but he would be very welcome to visit me anytime at all should I be wrong, but until then I'll simply assume that I'm not.

 

[alwight]

No. Alwight would like you to address the two hard-science questions HE asked, viz. age of light from stars, and fossil stratification.

Yes, but I've been here long enough so I don't expect an honest or clear answer. I think there was a "don't know" back there at some point which for a YEC like 6days was sort of honest I suppose. :think:

 

[alwight]

Well... lets do some 'accounting'.

Would you care to discuss any of the icons of *evolutionism from the past?

For example a "useless" appendix was used as a proof of common ancestry. Oops....science proved that wrong, so now evolutionists claim a useful appendix is proof of evolution.That shows the unfalsifiable nature of the belief system.

I've never claimed that the appendix was useless, only that it is probably vestigial. I'm quite sure that it is currently being made use of for a rather different purpose.
Current thinking seems to suggest that the only reason it hasn't disappeared altogether is because as it gets smaller it becomes more likely to become diseased and to kill its owner, in the past anyway. Natural selection has kept it at about the size it is but it is nevertheless a remnant from a time when our distant ancestors had a different diet.
In a sense though the appendix actually is useless because we can all live very well without it. If some people pronounced it "Useless" before then that doesn't negate anything about Darwinian evolution, nor the argument of those YECs like to call "evolutionists".

Thats one example of science showing evolutionist arguments to poorly designed...there are many others such as the 'poorly designed' vertebrate eye.....Lucy.....psuedogenes.....Neandertals.....junk DNA......etc

Of course you being a YEC need to cling onto any perceived changes of opinion over time. But these are little more than side issues whereby the overall argument remains absolutely solid but YECs apparently need to highlight anything all that might these days seem to be considered less than correct with later knowledge. All the evidence remains totally compatible with common descent and imo will always remain so, even if new conclusions come along with greater knowledge.

Humans are typically saddled with back pain because our posture puts pressure on a backbone more suited to having our bodyweight spread over all four limbs not just two. There is no selective pressure for that to change because humans are reasonable able to cope and to reproduce as it is albeit less than ideal. Sorry 6days it all nevertheless remains evidence of natural selection and common descent, not Intelligent Design.

 

[6days]

Yes, but I've been here long enough so I don't expect an honest or clear answer. I think there was a "don't know" back there at some point which for a YEC like 6days was sort of honest I suppose. :think:

Ha..... thanks for saying I was sort of honest...
im not even sure which post you asked the questions, nor in which I "sort of" answered.
Anyways..... we don't know for certain how God brought distant starlight to earth. There are a few possible answers including the one He tells us of Him spreading the heavens.
Re. Fossils and stratification....it is excellent evidence of the global flood and rapid burial. I thought there was a long thread on that topic but i cant locate it.

 

[alwight]

Ha..... thanks for saying I was sort of honest...
im not even sure which post you asked the questions, nor in which I "sort of" answered.
Anyways..... we don't know for certain how God brought distant starlight to earth. There are a few possible answers including the one He tells us of Him spreading the heavens.
Re. Fossils and stratification....it is excellent evidence of the global flood and rapid burial. I thought there was a long thread on that topic but i cant locate it.

Science doesn't try to usurp God it simply provides explanations based in current knowledge and facts regardless of a literal Genesis. The light from distant galaxies must be presumed by science as having a distant origin and that it must also be many millions of years old. If that light had been created en route so to speak then it never had an origin and we can never trust what we can see with our own eyes.

 

[Cross Reference]

Science doesn't try to usurp God it simply provides explanations based in current knowledge and facts regardless of a literal Genesis. The light from distant galaxies must be presumed by science as having a distant origin and that it must also be many millions of years old. If that light had been created en route so to speak then it never had an origin and we can never trust what we can see with our own eyes.

It also presumes a creator. Since you have no facts to the contrary, why can you trust for a Creator?

Man produces a camera that has 20 pixels and thinks it to be a big deal. Our balls have 600 pixels and you believe to be and accident.

 

[alwight]

It also presumes a creator. Since you have no facts to the contrary, why can you trust for a Creator?

Man produces a camera that has 20 pixels and thinks it to be a big deal. Our balls have 600 pixels and you believe to be and accident.

I'm not convinced of a creator nor am I convinced that you have much grasp of the facts if you think a 20 pixel camera is impressive, while I have no idea what you are referring to by "our balls" :idunno:

 

[TheDuke]

Dear Michael,

What a wonderful sensation, now you know exactly how every rational person feels about theists: appalled and exasperated.

You're welcome!

Dear TheDuke,

I suppose you get your FAIR share of heaping upon by going against the belief in God or Jesus, or the Holy Ghost, or the angels. Who is the rational one here? How many are numbered as atheists? What a LARGE group. You are in the minority to say the least and that is because it is you who isn't rational. Did you EVER think of THAT? There are more Christians, Or Muslims, Or Buddhists, Or Hindus, etc. So I wouldn't talk about it if I were you. Of course, I still care for you even though we don't agree. I'm a Christian and was taught that way. Praise God!!

Best Wishes!!

Michael

:guitar: :guitar: :singer: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:
​

Dear Michael,

I'm glad you know where you stand, now allow me to spell out for you why I am so confident about my position.

We all are subject to our emotions, Michael, many times it may even be a reasonable approach to trust them. But rationality is all about trusting nothing but hard evidence. I'm not relying on faith - you do! That's why people like me are rational and people like you are superstitious.

I don't care how many of "us" are out there, as long as I have no reason to, I can't bring myself to believe in fairies.

Bear in mind, though, that the fastest growing demographic in the industrialized world are atheists, and outside the US we are already a clear majority. Your kind is mostly prevalent where education is nonexistent (I wonder if that also explains the southern states????)

Cheers

 

[TheDuke]

Gish was one of a very few scientists who were willing to take a stand for God and the truth of his Word. Because of his courage and those like him, there are now thousands of scientists, i virtually every field of science, and in almost every country of the world who uphold God's Word as a source of absolute truth.

How lucky for science that your apocalyptic vision of it is but a dark fantasy.