Creation vs. Evolution

[6days]

*I*start with empirical science.
Astronomy shows a billions of years old cosmos from the faint light from distant stars. This is an empirical science fact. I start with this.

Nope.... you don't even know what empirical science is....so, you certainly don't start with it.

Empirical science can't observe nor do repeatable experiments on billions of years.

You are confusing opinions of stellar evolutionists with data.

The data shows our universe has a light horizon radius of 46 Billion light years. You confuse distance with age. You confuse data and interpretations.*

Then I see fossils which eat other fossils. The fossil bones show signs of being gnawed. This is an empirical scientific fact that past worlds were just as dog-eat-dog as this world. Same old food chains.

Uh..... Well the fossils were not eating fossils. But yes there definitely evidence of pain and suffering in the fossil record. In fact there is a branch of science that studies disease such as cancer in the fossil record.


But again..... you seem to confuse your beliefs about the past with empirical science. We perform empetical science in the present then make conclusions about the past. *You reject conclusions of Biblical geogists and astronomers. You accept conclusions of secularists and others such as Hugh Ross who preach a compromised gospel.

Then I look at the scriptures and see if these can accommodate the absolute truths of an old cosmos, and past worlds of animals eating each other which I know to be true.

You are a very confused young man.*

Instead of trying to make scripture fit secular opinions, why not accept God's Word as absolute truth. Yes past animals ate each other.... that is consistent with the plain reading of God's Word. But you are trying to mesh*evolutionary ideas into God's Word.*

Turns out my theology can oblige. The Bible is not focused on science. But what little it says on peripheral subjects is true.

You are not unlike many who teach another gospel. They say the Bible is true out of one side of their mouth but preach otherwise.

His Word tells us that He made the heavens and the earth and everything in it in six days. You say...He didn't. *

Tell me why you do not believe the sun rises since the Bible says it does?
Numbers 2:3*And on the east side toward the*rising of the sun*

Certainly I seen the sun rise today. When you hear the weatherman say the sun rose at 7AM..... are you confused?*

You seem very much like the Pope of Galileo's day. That pope took verses like that and tried to mesh it with popular opinions of the day.*

 

[MichaelCadry]

A bit of a non response to my post. Your god showed himself by killing untold numbers in a big flood and making the universe appear billions of years old yet requiring his faithful to believe it is about 6000 years old?

Wow.

Dear Jonahdog,

I can't say I know where, but perhaps 6days can help me with this one. An angel said to the Lord God, 'I can go and be a lying spirit to this man,' is about all that I remember. In other words, to think that God would have us see the Earth older than 6,000 years is truly up to Him. How dare you to say that God will not allow us to be tempted, to prove ourselves. Does He not hold your very soul and eternal happiness in His Hands, and you want to fly against that??!! You do not know the Grandeur of His Holiest Of Spirits, and yet you dare anyway. What is this world coming to?? That's all I have to say right now. I am appalled by the whole matter.

Shame On You!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

First off, it's my e-sword software that gives the definition that leviathan could be referring to plesiosaurus.

Presumably it lived in the seas, where ships [today] go.

Or the Psalmist might have been likening it to a "ship". The Hebrew has no quote marks to show comparison/metaphor, but is the Bible not full of metaphor?


Don't give arguments that shoot yourself in the foot.
When one says "dust to dust, ashes to ashes" do we mean you start out and end up the same? Do you realise how silly your point sounds?



I tried highlighting the word "renew" in Ps 104:30.

Apparently that giant font and blue colour were not highlights enough for you to notice.

That word means exactly that. "Make right again something that was already there". Do a Hebrew check of that word.

And combine it with "send forth Your Spirit" - we see the Spirit specifically sent only in Gen 1:2, not after the flood.

Thus pointing specifically back to events in Gen 1, calling these a renewal of earth.

As for the "heavens" being plural in Exodus 20:11.
The Hebrew word for heaven(s) singular and plural is "Shamayim". Like the word for sheep is both singular and plural.

And I am sure that on Day 4 God tweaked the heavens so that the month was exactly 30 days long which seems to be where we get prophetic months from and 360 degrees in a circle. And on the 1st day God cleared the skies, [Y]and on the 6th He made birds to fly in the heavens.[/Y] So 1st, 4th and 6th are heavens related days of renewing.

I have shown you how Gen 1 seems to be referring to a renewal, not first creation of earth.

If you and 6days and Michael and others want to keep on insisting that the cosmos and earth are only 6000 years old, and in so doing show utter contempt for science (good science), then carry on making yourselves look igorant.

But don't insist that the Bible says the cosmos is only 6000 years old. That is only your INTERPRETATION of scripture, just as evolution is only the atheists INTERPRETATION of the fossil record.

Dear iouae,

God created the fowl/birds on the fifth day, not the sixth. Is this a mistake that you believe in? Or is it a copy mistake?

I am perfectly fine with waiting until we go to Heaven and find out from God whether the Earth and Heaven are millions/billions of years old, or 6-7,000 years old. I know it is a hard question that man seems to want to solve before it's time. Considering that the Earth was made in the same WEEK as the Cosmos, they would either each be millions of years old OR billions of years old.

With the enormous faith I have in Him, we'll find out when He's ready!! Not a day sooner, not a day later.

God Bless You Tons!!

Michael
​

 

[MichaelCadry]

Interesting theology. Shows a god who apparently needs the worship and adoration of his creation. Not a very self sufficient god.

Dear Jonahdog,

He doesn't need it. He does appreciate it. But we are here to learn how to be like the angels, so we can learn to help others on Earth the words of God, very importantly, AFTER we die. God just keeps on increasing His Army of followers and helpers. Many have to go through some rigorous training to make it. We are his 'adult' 'children' living and learning from Him in the Milky Way, just like babies like milk also. And that is a part of their nourishment. He put it in man's mouth to call this galaxy the Milky Way, no one else.

You hardly know the whole story and you are far, far behind, so why bother?? I'd be down on my knees praying to Him for your eternal life. He has feelings too and you do nothing but try to hurt Them.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

I feel it is important to respect some science and disrespect "science" which is not true science.

So how can one tell when science is respectable or not?

Is mathematics with its formulae respectable, and if so why?

Is cosmology respectable, and if so why?

Is being able to control nuclear reactions respectable science, and if so why?

Is electronics and being able to design circuits respectable science, and if so why?

Is being able to land a man on the moon respectable science, and if so why?

Is weather prediction respectable science, and if so why?

Is evolution respectable science, and if so why?

Is domestic science respectable?

Is biology respectable?

Is botany respectable?

Is palaeontology respectable?



What rule is there for determining the respectability of science?

Dear iouae,

You could do without all of those Sciences, and still make it to Heaven. Believing in the lies they sometimes harbor can snatch that treasure right away from you.

Michael
​

 

[iouae]

Dear iouae,

God created the fowl/birds on the fifth day, not the sixth. Is this a mistake that you believe in? Or is it a copy mistake?

I am perfectly fine with waiting until we go to Heaven and find out from God whether the Earth and Heaven are millions/billions of years old, or 6-7,000 years old. I know it is a hard question that man seems to want to solve before it's time. Considering that the Earth was made in the same WEEK as the Cosmos, they would either each be millions of years old OR billions of years old.

With the enormous faith I have in Him. We'll find out when He's ready!! Not a day sooner, not a day later.

God Bless You Tons!!

Michael
​

Hi Michael

You do put things in perspective.
You, myself, 6days, and others believe in creation. We believe the current biome was created in 7 days 6000 years ago. We don't believe in evolution. We all believe in a Flood. The only thing we are arguing about is a gap.

I have stated my point how one can believe in the Bible and an old cosmos. I don't know why I am still banging on about it.
Thanks for that.

Yes the birds were created on the 5th day.

Most of all we believe in the same Jesus who created all things and who grants us salvation.

Warmest regards to you Michael

Ps: I picked 15 lb of young green figs off my fig tree and made fig preserve. My bread-maker is busy making bread, giving off a lovely smell of yeast. Soon I will be eating home-made fig preserve on home-made bread. I hope whatever you are having today will be equally as good.

 

[Jonahdog]

Dear Jonahdog,

He doesn't need it. He does appreciate it. But we are here to learn how to be like the angels, so we can learn to help others on Earth the words of God, very importantly, AFTER we die. God just keeps on increasing His Army of followers and helpers. Many have to go through some rigorous training to make it. We are his 'adult' 'children' living and learning from Him in the Milky Way, just like babies like milk also. And that is a part of their nourishment. He put it in man's mouth to call this galaxy the Milky Way, no one else.

You hardly know the whole story and you are far, far behind, so why bother?? I'd be down on my knees praying to Him for your eternal life. He has feelings too and you do nothing but try to hurt Them.

Michael

Michael, you can stop praying for my eternal life. Thanks.

 

[iouae]

Nope.... you don't even know what empirical science is....so, you certainly don't start with it.

Empirical science can't observe nor do repeatable experiments on billions of years.

You are confusing opinions of stellar evolutionists with data.

And there I thought it was as simple as looking through a kiddies telescope back into the distant past

Uh..... Well the fossils were not eating fossils. But yes there definitely evidence of pain and suffering in the fossil record. In fact there is a branch of science that studies disease such as cancer in the fossil record.

You accept conclusions of secularists and others such as Hugh Ross who preach a compromised gospel.

I have read him. It was a while back so I cannot remember too much. My vague memory was of disagreeing with him.

You are a very confused young man.*

I suppose all madmen think they are the most sane one around

Instead of trying to make scripture fit secular opinions, why not accept God's Word as absolute truth.

Preachers play fast and loose with God's word all the time with no observable consequences.
The moment scientists play fast and loose, the Hadron Collider stops working. I respect science.

You are not unlike many who teach another gospel. They say the Bible is true out of one side of their mouth but preach otherwise.

I do not consider the age of the universe to be the Gospel.
But every error a believer holds, punishes them. Contrariwise, every truth they hold automatically blesses them. So I rest happy knowing that you and I will be blessed as we deserve.

Because a tiny new truth often unlocks a really important new one, this has taught me to respect the tiniest Biblical truth, just as I respect every scientific one.

His Word tells us that He made the heavens and the earth and everything in it in six days. You say...He didn't. *

I say He did make the heavens, earth, sea and their creatures in 6 days - on top of an old, messed up earth.

Certainly I seen the sun rise today. When you hear the weatherman say the sun rose at 7AM..... are you confused?*

No. But Bible literalists of old would use this to "prove" the earth was the centre of the universe.

You seem very much like the Pope of Galileo's day. That pope took verses like that and tried to mesh it with popular opinions of the day.*

I thought just the opposite, that the Pope took the Bible literally and REFUSED to mesh it with Galileo's secular science.

But not being fond of horses, either to ride them, lead them to water, or flog them to death, I leave you to your belief knowing that in far more important doctrines we are brother believers.

 

[6days]

You are not unlike many who teach another gospel. They say the Bible is true out of one side of their mouth but preach otherwise.

I do not consider the age of the universe to be the Gospel.

Genesis is the foundation to the Gospel. Christian doctrines, including the doctrine of salvation, *are rooted in the first few books of the Bible. By adding millions of years of death, pain, suffering and extinctions into Genesis 1, you weaken or destroy the doctrine of salvation.

Because a tiny new truth often unlocks a really important new one, this has taught me to respect the tiniest Biblical truth, just as I respect every scientific one.

What you have demonstrated is an ignorance of science and a respect for secular explanations that compromise scripture.*

His Word tells us that He made the heavens and the earth and everything in it in six days. You say...He didn't.

I say He did make the heavens, earth, sea and their creatures in 6 days - on top of an old, messed up earth.

Yes.... you do say that.

But God's Word *says "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth..."

 

[iouae]

What you have demonstrated is an ignorance of science and a respect for secular explanations that compromise scripture.

What you have demonstrated is a rather tiresome name-calling.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hey Alwight,

I hope you are feeling well these days!! It's been a while! I've missed you and Hedshaker. I got to chat with gcthomas not too long ago. And DavisBJ. I wonder what ever happened to JosephR, TheBarbarian, Stuu, Daft Dave? Things have changed.

Well, I had my first radiation therapy this afternoon. I have to go five days a week for seven weeks. 35 visits!! I have to work all other things around my 3pm appts. It only takes about 15-20 mins., so that's nice. And it's only a mile away. I'm in the Christmas Spirit and have already bought three gifts. I got the gifts from Israel. Everyone else is getting money. I don't know what they want otherwise.

Well, I will PM you in a bit. I can only write so much on here or they say I'm off-topic. I do my best!!

The Very Best Of Wishes, Mate,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hi Michael

You do put things in perspective.
You, myself, 6days, and others believe in creation. We believe the current biome was created in 7 days 6000 years ago. We don't believe in evolution. We all believe in a Flood. The only thing we are arguing about is a gap.

I have stated my point how one can believe in the Bible and an old cosmos. I don't know why I am still banging on about it.
Thanks for that.

Yes the birds were created on the 5th day.

Most of all we believe in the same Jesus who created all things and who grants us salvation.

Warmest regards to you Michael

Ps: I picked 15 lb of young green figs off my fig tree and made fig preserve. My bread-maker is busy making bread, giving off a lovely smell of yeast. Soon I will be eating home-made fig preserve on home-made bread. I hope whatever you are having today will be equally as good.

Dear iouae,

Glad to help. Yes, my Dad had a fig tree in our back yard just a few years ago. But no one made preserves. That's a lot of work!! Eek! I do have some dried apricots in the frig though. I'll have to pick up some dried figs soon. That sounds tasty. No homemade bread though. I don't have a bread maker, except me. I know they sell the bread dough frozen already made, but I can never get it to rise like it should. Hey, you take care and enjoy the holidays!!

Much Love, In Jesus Christ,

Michael

:cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :guitar:
​

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael, you can stop praying for my eternal life. Thanks.

Dear Jonahdog,

I will do as you ask. It's your eternity. You just don't grasp it yet. A soul, a spirit, cannot 'die.' That's the way God made them. So you will go on living, not tasting death. The death of your body is just the spirit of God within you popping out of your body. Death is no big deal. It's just a certain 'instant' in your entire life. Oh well, best wishes.

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :cloud9: :guitar: :singer:
​

 

[alwight]

Hey Alwight,

I hope you are feeling well these days!! It's been a while! I've missed you and Hedshaker. I got to chat with gcthomas not too long ago. And DavisBJ. I wonder what ever happened to JosephR, TheBarbarian, Stuu, Daft Dave? Things have changed.

Well, I had my first radiation therapy this afternoon. I have to go five days a week for seven weeks. 35 visits!! I have to work all other things around my 3pm appts. It only takes about 15-20 mins., so that's nice. And it's only a mile away. I'm in the Christmas Spirit and have already bought three gifts. I got the gifts from Israel. Everyone else is getting money. I don't know what they want otherwise.

Well, I will PM you in a bit. I can only write so much on here or they say I'm off-topic. I do my best!!

The Very Best Of Wishes, Mate,

Michael

Hi Michael,
I just wrote you quite a long PM, but it doesn't add anything to this thread so you'll have to make do with that.
:e4e:

 

[iouae]

Dear iouae,

Glad to help. Yes, my Dad had a fig tree in our back yard just a few years ago. But no one made preserves. That's a lot of work!! Eek! I do have some dried apricots in the frig though. I'll have to pick up some dried figs soon. That sounds tasty. No homemade bread though. I don't have a bread maker, except me. I know they sell the bread dough frozen already made, but I can never get it to rise like it should. Hey, you take care and enjoy the holidays!!

Much Love, In Jesus Christ,

Michael

:cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :guitar:
​

Finally I am cooking like you Michael. It took me half the day

Thank you, it's never is too soon to let the holiday begin.

Have a good one yourself.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hi Michael,
I just wrote you quite a long PM, but it doesn't add anything to this thread so you'll have to make do with that.
:e4e:

Dear alwight,

It's cool!! I thoroughly enjoyed the PM. I hope to hear from you ASAP!! My radiation treatments are going okay. 15-20 mins. a day. I've got to go to the Dentist too on Thurs. after the radiation. It's hard finagling {juggling times for it all} things. Will chat with you again soon alwight!!

The Very Best To You, Mate!!

Michael

:cloud9: :cloud9: :cloud9:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Finally I am cooking like you Michael. It took me half the day

Thank you, it's never is too soon to let the holiday begin.

Have a good one yourself.

Dear iouae,

Sounds like something I would do. What'd ya make? How did it turn out? You have to practice. And have a halfway decent memory. I've got most every spice to use, so that helps out. I am out of Saffron, but that is too expensive for what it's worth. It's just as sufficient to use Turmeric.

Yes, enjoy. It goes by in flash! Soon it will be Jan. 2nd. That's when it's all over for another year. It was 75 here today, but it's supposed to get colder this weekend. Eek!!

Well, will get going for now. Check out my next big post!!

Much Love, In Jesus Christ,

Michael

 

[patrick jane]

Hi Mr. Cadry !

 

[MichaelCadry]

Scientific Evidence for Creation

by Duane Gish, Ph.D.

This impact pamphlet was written by a scientist, and a science educator, and reviewed by an attorney, to provide a brief summary of the scientific evidence supporting creation. The text materials and references listed at the end together give a more thorough discussion of this scientific evidence.

{Quote}

I. The Universe and the Solar System Were Suddenly Created.

The First Law of Thermodynamics states that the total quantity of matter and energy in the universe is constant. The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that matter and energy always tend to change from complex and ordered states to disordered states. Therefore the universe could not have created itself, but could not have existed forever, or it would have run down long ago. Thus the universe, including matter and energy, apparently must have been created. The "big-bang" theory of the origin of the universe contradicts much physical evidence and seemingly can only be accepted by faith.1 This was also the case with the past cosmogonies theories of evolutionists that have been discarded, such as Hoyle’s steady-state theory. The universe has "obvious manifestations of an ordered, structured plan or design." Similarly, the electron is materially inconceivable and yet it is so perfectly known through its effects," yet a "strange rationale makes some physicists accept the inconceivable electrons as real while refusing to accept the reality of a Designer." "The inconceivability of some ultimate issue (which will always lie outside scientific resolution) should not be allowed to rule out any theory that explains the interrelationship of observed data and is useful for prediction," in the words of Dr. Wernher von Braun, the renowned late physicist in the NASA space program.

II. Life Was Suddenly Created.

Life appears abruptly and in complex forms in the fossil record,{2} and gaps appear systematically in the fossil record between various living kinds.{3} These facts indicate that basic kinds of plants and animals were created. The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that things tend to go from order to disorder (entropy tends to increase) unless added energy is directed by a conversion mechanism (such as photosynthesis), whether a system is open or closed. Thus simple molecules and complex protein, DNA, and RNA molecules seemingly could not have evolved spontaneously and naturalistically into a living cell; {4} such cells apparently were created. The laboratory experiments related to theories on the origin of life have not even remotely approached the synthesis of life from nonlife, and the extremely limited results have depended on laboratory conditions that are artificially imposed and extremely improbable. {5} The extreme improbability of these conditions and the relatively insignificant results apparently show that life did not emerge by the process that evolutionists postulate.

"One example of the scientific evidence for creation is the sudden appearance of complex fossilized life in the fossil record, and the systematic gaps between fossilized kinds in that record. The most rational inference from this evidence seemingly is that life was created and did not evolve."

Hope this helps some, 6days!!

God Bless You All Tons!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hi Mr. Cadry !

Hi Patrick Jane,

What you doing up so late? Couldn't sleep, eh? I'm just getting ready to go to bed and call it a night. It's been a long day. Sorry to go so soon. I wish you an excellent night's sleep!!

Much Love Coming Your Way!!

Michael