Dear Davis,
If you do that, you will pass up your ticket on the Peace Train, and Oh Very Young. So that is being brutally honest!! WHERE do you WANT to spend ETERNITY, in Heaven or the Lake of Fire??
Michael
Creation vs. Evolution
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Dear Davis,
If you do that, you will pass up your ticket on the Peace Train, and Oh Very Young. So that is being brutally honest!! WHERE do you WANT to spend ETERNITY, in Heaven or the Lake of Fire??
Michael
6days
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Which is why it is so important for Christian parents to teach their kids how to think...and not just what to think.
As Christians we need to be able to show that what we believe is a logical belief system based on the evidence of God's inerrant Word.
Too many parents just leave the teaching of their children to the TV, Sunday school teachers and the public school system.
Your problem is that when children are taught how to think they determine that your logical belief system is not logical. It requires an ability to ignore the real world and to depend on magical thinking.
It's magic how we all came from one living organism and everything came from a singularity somehow by itself. Everything just worked out perfect for humans to travel the stars and flourish. Monkey love
No, we have come a long way towards showing that is not magic at all. Magic is when someone names a pile of mud “Adam” and then utters an incantation which causes the mud to turn into a walking, talking daddy.
"Humans to travel the stars"? Cool.
But no, it is not magic. It may be difficult to understand and we certainly do not know how it all started but it is clear that it did and it did so billions of years ago, not just a few thousand.
6days
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Indeed... that would be magic!
However, if a supreme intelligence could created us / humans that way....that Being would be worthy of our worship.
Magic is more like the belief that nothing caused everything and life came from non life.
Now a supreme intelligence? Then why did not this supreme intelligence know his creation would sin right away? Continue to sin thereby angering this supreme intelligence such that he caused a world wide flood that killed almost every living thing?
And why did the supreme intelligence set up the natural world such that his creation would try to understand it and that understanding would conflict with the Holy Book he left.
Sorry, that particular intelligence does not seem so supreme to me.
How else can God share Himself and us with Him. That we should go through the trials of life and face temptation and sin, pain and death. Enjoying God here on earth as He has prepared a way. Heaven is the reward for overcomers.
6days
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Exactly ... a one word answer would be LOVE.
He did it all because of love. Love always...always...always, involves free choice.
Derf
Well-known member
So you believe that in Exodus 20:11 there was more than the skies of earth involved, since it was plural?
I suppose we can, but should we? What you described from current science theory fits very well with a first day without the atmosphere or the cosmos as we see it today. And if Genesis says the same thing, why would you want to come up with a different theory? Not that there's anything wrong with that, but why try so hard to read something else into Genesis?
So what is God doing for the further 7 days?
Tweaking and adding to what is already there.
Day 1 - God clears the thick atmosphere THAT WAS ALREADY THERE, so that the sun THAT WAS ALREADY THERE can shine through.
Day 2 - God lifts the cloud THAT WAS ALREADY THERE, raising it high above the sea THAT WAS ALREADY THERE creating clear sky (firmament) between.
Day 3 - God raises land THAT WAS ALREADY THERE causing it to poke out of the sea THAT WAS ALREADY THERE. God then populates the land with plants.
Day 4 - God appoints the sun, moon and stars THAT WERE ALREADY THERE to mark out days, months, years and Feast Days.
Day 5 - God populates the sky THAT WAS ALREADY THERE with birds, and God populates the seas THAT WERE ALREADY THERE, with fish.
Day 6 - God populates the land THAT WAS ALREADY THERE with land animals and man.
Day 7 - God rests, creating the Sabbath.
Now put this together with Ps 104:30.
I firmly believe Ps 104 is describing a renewing of earth in 6 days, 6000 years ago after a mass extinction.
24 O Lord, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches.
25 So is this great and wide sea, wherein are things creeping innumerable, both small and great beasts.
26 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein. [ancient biome with giant animals such as dinosaurs, plesiosaurus][/quote]I think you misplaced your emphasis. Let me try again for you:
26 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein. [ancient biome with giant animals such as dinosaurs, plesiosaurus][with ships!!!!!!!]
I'm not sure how you can equate fossilization with returning to dust. Unless they were fossilized before they were created and then they fossilized after they died.
I guess it could be talking about a great cataclysm--after ships and leviathan shared the seas, perhaps (either that or the ships and leviathan share the seas in the day of the psalmist, which seems more likely to me from the text). We certainly know of a great cataclysm in Genesis that required renewal of the order of earth starting from when the waters were above the mountains. Do you need another one?
In which era do you think the ships and leviathan shared the seas? Was it the one before the 7 days? Or the one between the seven days and Noah's flood, or the one after Noah's flood (in which the psalmist lived)? I personally vote for the third option, which tells us that some kind of creature (described more fully in Job 41), that is much more similar to fossils we have found than to anything extant today (that we know of), was at one time in the sea at the same time as ships of men after Noah's flood, which you confirmed was around 4.4 thousand years ago.
But what about the other two options--That Leviathan was around between 6000 and 4400 years ago or prior to the cataclysm that happened before the seven days of creation. In any of these cases you have to deal with a scripture/scientist inconsistency. Why put the burden of reconciliation on scripture by trying to find a different interpretation than is the most readily apparent?
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I see that for you, ignorance is bliss.
I have now identified 6 prominent physicists who, independently, looked at the question of "nothing caused everything", using the laws of physics, and every one of them concluded no laws of science were violated when the universe naturally came into existence. In other words, not magic at all. Some day, perhaps, you will actually follow the evidence, instead of ancient tribal myths.
A bit of a non response to my post. Your god showed himself by killing untold numbers in a big flood and making the universe appear billions of years old yet requiring his faithful to believe it is about 6000 years old?
Wow.
6days
New member
So... you too believe that nothing caused everything?
Your 6 physicists are fools. Did they think the laws of physics and energy are nothing?
That is pseudoscience / magic Davis.
Nothing has ever begun to exist which is uncaused.
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6days
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Agree.Derf said:
Any interpretation other than that involves a compromise on the clear teachings of scripture. To believe anything other than that obvious meaning, means that physical death was not a consequence of sin...and Christ's physical death then becomes pointless.
Last Adams physical death and resurrection was in part to defeat the physical death that was a consequence of first Adams sin.
1 Cor. 15
Physicists long ago learned that it is folly to demand that the laws that seem obvious to us in daily life are the same as those that apply in situations far removed from daily life. If that offends your sense of what seems logical, nature just doesn’t care. The fool is the person that thinks nature must obey their intuition. Sorry bout that.
6days
New member
As said.... the physicists you mention who believe everything came from nothing are fools.... and they are dishonest. Their belief has nothing whatsoever to do with science, but instead it's a philosophy.
Your ignorance of physics is noted and acknowledged. When you actually learn some, get back to me.
6days
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Your metaphysical belief system is noted.
To believe everything came from nothing is pseudoscience.
Do you seriously believe that nothing caused everything?
Once again, your ignorance of physics is (again) noted and acknowledged. Please, learn some physics, then get back to me.
(I don't put much stock in your describing something as "pseudoscience", other than thinking that must be the best you have to offer.)
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