Creation vs. Evolution
- Thread starter MichaelCadry
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alwight
New member
Most YE creationists anyway will simply assume that whatever Bible scripture says will always trump any science however good or bad. What about you?:think:
I do believe the Bible and yes IF any science contradicts what the Bible does clearly teach, then I will discount the science as NOT being accurate or just plain wrong. It mostly happens with the so-called science that contradicts what Genesis 1 & 2 teaches. This is a Christian site after all.
Why would I need someone else to tell me what I have already had evidence of?
If it talks like, walks like, sounds like...it IS.
way 2 go
Well-known member
Rodhocetus
faked and still on display
you have seen a fake , never found the tail or flippers/feet
2min video of the guy admitting he made it up
https://youtu.be/R7e6C6yUqck
Ambulocetus faked blow hole, never found that part of the skull
actual skeleton shown
https://youtu.be/tkwhd_gIR7c
alwight
New member
Forgive me then if I think that there is perhaps more dogmatism than faith in you answer.
I think science has value because it can be shown to be wrong when it is, but I see no particular value in dogmatically believing literally in an ancient scripture that requires no falsifiability just belief regardless of science.
way 2 go
Well-known member
tides go up tides go down but it was a world wide flood.
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/highesttide.html
That many of the areas of the world with high ranges of tides are in the areas of Alaska, Canada, and northern Europe has created a misconception that the range of tide increases with increasing latitude (as one moves farther from the equator and closer to the poles). This is incorrect.
Increased tidal ranges in these areas are created by the positions and configurations of the continents in the northern hemisphere. In the higher latitudes of the northern hemisphere, the continents of North America, Europe, and Asia are pressed closer together. This “constriction” of the oceans creates the effect of a higher range of tides.
Yah. OK. You are so ill-informed that I can't spend anymore time on you. My advice to you is to read up on what the other side actually says instead of your current display of knowing what common descentists say about what YEC's say. Also, learn the scientific method and apply it instead of following consensus as you've, so far, demonstrated is the only thing you can do.
6days
New member
Actually, what I reject is that there was death in this world before Adam and Eve disobeyed God.*Kdall said:
"When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned." Rom. 5:12
Kdall said:
EVERYTHING I believe is based on the inerrant absolute truth of God's Word.*
I think you may be misrepresenting something I earlier said. Although perhaps I wasn't*careful with an explanation.Kdall said:
I think I might have said that speciation is not something that has a precise definition all scientists agree too...and that there is even disagreement amongst scientists if Darwins finches have truly speciated since they still can interbreed.*
Dear StanJ,
I like you!! You've got a wonderful memory too!!
Much Love, In Christ,
Michael
:think:
No Jonahdog,
I don't smoke anymore, regular or funny. Good answer though!!
Michael
:drum:
:think:
NOTE BELOW, TAKEN FROM ANOTHER THREAD:
Dear Kdall,
God does sit upon His Great White Throne and watches the Earth from His Throne. You just don't understand what's going on. And I am not going to tell you right now.
I'll go ahead and tell you! I think He's ingenius!! His Spirit is within our Moon. That's His Heavenly Body for now. You wanted to know so badly. And now you can't stand to know? There is a veil which shall be removed quite soon. And Jesus is right on His right hand side. Look on the face of the full moon. His Spirit is everywhere, but his Base Station is our moon. He watches us as He goes around the Earth every 24 hours. Do not go and start worshiping the moon. Worship the Lord the way you have been, for His Spirit is the same. That is the real Him, not some inanimate object. It's time for us to grow up and know a few things. He will remove the veil soon. When we go to heaven, we are given heavenly bodies also. Us people give up our earthly bodies and we get a heavenly body, or a star to live on. This is why it is written in Dan. 12:3KJV, "And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament (Heaven); and they that turn many to righteousness {shall be} as the stars for ever and ever." Now you know why I didn't want to tell you. After the seventh angel sounds, you will receive proof of this. He told us, do not worship the creations of the Lord God, so don't. Worship His Spirit!! It's tricky, but you can do it!! See how Jesus says in Rev. 3:12KJV, "Him that overcometh will I make a 'pillar' {a star} in the temple of my God (Heaven)." There's tons of things going on and so I guess I might as well start telling you right now. You'll get proof of it very, very soon. Now, it takes many for each star. We all don't each get our own star. We are the light/energy of it. That is the spirit of life within us, which is of God. The Lord God revealed Himself a few times to other men, but they were called lunatics. Their minds weren't able to comprehend everything yet. They couldn't keep it together. But it is time now that man is able, for "the mystery of God shall be finished, as He hath declared to His servants, the prophets." There's a lot more you will learn also in the near future. Keep it together!!
Praise The Lord!!
Michael
FYI
Dear Kdall,
God does sit upon His Great White Throne and watches the Earth from His Throne. You just don't understand what's going on. And I am not going to tell you right now.
I'll go ahead and tell you! I think He's ingenius!! His Spirit is within our Moon. That's His Heavenly Body for now. You wanted to know so badly. And now you can't stand to know? There is a veil which shall be removed quite soon. And Jesus is right on His right hand side. Look on the face of the full moon. His Spirit is everywhere, but his Base Station is our moon. He watches us as He goes around the Earth every 24 hours. Do not go and start worshiping the moon. Worship the Lord the way you have been, for His Spirit is the same. That is the real Him, not some inanimate object. It's time for us to grow up and know a few things. He will remove the veil soon. When we go to heaven, we are given heavenly bodies also. Us people give up our earthly bodies and we get a heavenly body, or a star to live on. This is why it is written in Dan. 12:3KJV, "And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament (Heaven); and they that turn many to righteousness {shall be} as the stars for ever and ever." Now you know why I didn't want to tell you. After the seventh angel sounds, you will receive proof of this. He told us, do not worship the creations of the Lord God, so don't. Worship His Spirit!! It's tricky, but you can do it!! See how Jesus says in Rev. 3:12KJV, "Him that overcometh will I make a 'pillar' {a star} in the temple of my God (Heaven)." There's tons of things going on and so I guess I might as well start telling you right now. You'll get proof of it very, very soon. Now, it takes many for each star. We all don't each get our own star. We are the light/energy of it. That is the spirit of life within us, which is of God. The Lord God revealed Himself a few times to other men, but they were called lunatics. Their minds weren't able to comprehend everything yet. They couldn't keep it together. But it is time now that man is able, for "the mystery of God shall be finished, as He hath declared to His servants, the prophets." There's a lot more you will learn also in the near future. Keep it together!!
Praise The Lord!!
Michael
FYI
Care to tell me what part I got wrong?
Michael,
While I disagree with your assessment here, you're welcome to your opinion and I'm not going to dispute it. As you say, I suppose we'll see later this year
i found this interesting -
from biblehub - commentary from David Huzik -
4. The fossil discoveries of our “human ancestors” such as Australopithecus afarensis, Australopithecus africanus, Homo habilis, and Homo Erectus show that the search for our “human ancestors” has been one filled with dishonest science and wishful thinking.
a. Quoting Johnson: “The psychological atmosphere that surrounds the viewing of hominid fossils is uncannily reminiscent of the veneration of relics at a medieval shrine.” In 1984, the American Museum of Natural History held an unprecedented showing of original fossils said to depict human evolution titled Ancestors.
b. From Johnson: “The ‘priceless and fragile relics’ were carried by anxious curators in first-class airplane seats and brought to the Museum in a VIP motorcade of limousines with police escort. Inside the Museum, the relics were placed behind bullet-proof glass to be admired by a select preview audience of anthropologists, who spoke in hushed voices because ‘It was like discussing theology in a cathedral.’ A sociologist observing this ritual of the anthropologist tribe remarked, ‘Sounds like ancestor worship to me.’ ”
c. Solly Zuckerman is a committed evolutionist and one of Britain’s most influential scientists. He also regards much of the fossil evidence for human evolution as nonsense. Zuckerman has subjected key fossils to years of biometric testing and declares that the idea that they walked and ran upright is flimsy wishful thinking. He remarked that the record of reckless speculation in the field of human origins “is so astonishing that it is legitimate to ask whether much science is yet to be found in this field at all.” (Johnson)
d. “The story of human descent from apes is not merely a scientific hypothesis; it is the secular equivalent of the story of Adam and Eve, and a matter of immense cultural importance. Propagating the story requires illustrations, museum exhibits, and television reenactments. It also requires a priesthood, in the form of thousands of researchers, teachers, and artists who provide realistic and imaginative detail and carry the story out to the general public .... The scientific priesthood that has authority to interpret the official creation story gains immense cultural influence thereby, which it might lose if the story were called into question. The experts therefore have a vested interest in protecting the story, and in imposing rules of reasoning that make it invulnerable. When critics ask, ‘Is your theory really true?’ we should not be satisfied to be answered that ‘it is good science, as we define science’.” (Johnson)
e. Evolutionists are not interested in testing if their theory is true. They simply believe once you ignore the creating hand of God, it is the only explanation available, so their job is to figure out how it works, not if it is true.
5. Why is evolution so universally believed today?
a. In the 1920’s, a former substitute teacher in a Tennessee school volunteered to be the defendant in a case meant to challenge a state law prohibiting the teaching of evolution in the public schools. The teacher wasn’t even sure he had taught evolution, but the trial went ahead.
b. Prosecuting the case was William Jennings Bryan, former Secretary of State under Woodrow Wilson, and a three-time Democratic candidate for President. Bryan believed in the Bible, but not literally. He thought the “days” of Genesis referred not to 24-hour days, but to historical ages of indefinite duration. Leading the defense was Clarence Darrow, a famous criminal lawyer and agnostic lecturer. Darrow maneuvered Bryan to take the stand as an expert witness on the Bible, and he humiliated Bryan in a devastating cross-examination. Once that purpose was accomplished, Darrow pleaded guilty on behalf of his client and paid a $100 fine.
c. The trial was therefore inconclusive, but the “Scopes Monkey Trial” was presented to the world by sarcastic journalist H.L. Mencken, Broadway, and Hollywood, and was a huge public relations triumph for Darwinism. People who believed in God’s creation came to be thought of as fools and hicks, and evolution was given the veneer of respectability. Combine this with a strong anti-supernaturalism on the part of many scientists and educators, and today’s acceptance of evolution is understandable.
d. The same attitude is used to squelch debate and questions about evolution today. “When outsiders question whether the theory of evolution is as secure as we have been led to believe, we are firmly told that such questions are out of order. The arguments among the experts are said to be about matters of detail, such as the precise time scale and the mechanism of evolutionary transformations. These disagreements are signs not of crisis but of healthy creative ferment within the field, and in any case there is no room for doubt whatever about something called the ‘fact’ of evolution.” (Johnson) - david guzik - biblehub -
from biblehub - commentary from David Huzik -
4. The fossil discoveries of our “human ancestors” such as Australopithecus afarensis, Australopithecus africanus, Homo habilis, and Homo Erectus show that the search for our “human ancestors” has been one filled with dishonest science and wishful thinking.
a. Quoting Johnson: “The psychological atmosphere that surrounds the viewing of hominid fossils is uncannily reminiscent of the veneration of relics at a medieval shrine.” In 1984, the American Museum of Natural History held an unprecedented showing of original fossils said to depict human evolution titled Ancestors.
b. From Johnson: “The ‘priceless and fragile relics’ were carried by anxious curators in first-class airplane seats and brought to the Museum in a VIP motorcade of limousines with police escort. Inside the Museum, the relics were placed behind bullet-proof glass to be admired by a select preview audience of anthropologists, who spoke in hushed voices because ‘It was like discussing theology in a cathedral.’ A sociologist observing this ritual of the anthropologist tribe remarked, ‘Sounds like ancestor worship to me.’ ”
c. Solly Zuckerman is a committed evolutionist and one of Britain’s most influential scientists. He also regards much of the fossil evidence for human evolution as nonsense. Zuckerman has subjected key fossils to years of biometric testing and declares that the idea that they walked and ran upright is flimsy wishful thinking. He remarked that the record of reckless speculation in the field of human origins “is so astonishing that it is legitimate to ask whether much science is yet to be found in this field at all.” (Johnson)
d. “The story of human descent from apes is not merely a scientific hypothesis; it is the secular equivalent of the story of Adam and Eve, and a matter of immense cultural importance. Propagating the story requires illustrations, museum exhibits, and television reenactments. It also requires a priesthood, in the form of thousands of researchers, teachers, and artists who provide realistic and imaginative detail and carry the story out to the general public .... The scientific priesthood that has authority to interpret the official creation story gains immense cultural influence thereby, which it might lose if the story were called into question. The experts therefore have a vested interest in protecting the story, and in imposing rules of reasoning that make it invulnerable. When critics ask, ‘Is your theory really true?’ we should not be satisfied to be answered that ‘it is good science, as we define science’.” (Johnson)
e. Evolutionists are not interested in testing if their theory is true. They simply believe once you ignore the creating hand of God, it is the only explanation available, so their job is to figure out how it works, not if it is true.
5. Why is evolution so universally believed today?
a. In the 1920’s, a former substitute teacher in a Tennessee school volunteered to be the defendant in a case meant to challenge a state law prohibiting the teaching of evolution in the public schools. The teacher wasn’t even sure he had taught evolution, but the trial went ahead.
b. Prosecuting the case was William Jennings Bryan, former Secretary of State under Woodrow Wilson, and a three-time Democratic candidate for President. Bryan believed in the Bible, but not literally. He thought the “days” of Genesis referred not to 24-hour days, but to historical ages of indefinite duration. Leading the defense was Clarence Darrow, a famous criminal lawyer and agnostic lecturer. Darrow maneuvered Bryan to take the stand as an expert witness on the Bible, and he humiliated Bryan in a devastating cross-examination. Once that purpose was accomplished, Darrow pleaded guilty on behalf of his client and paid a $100 fine.
c. The trial was therefore inconclusive, but the “Scopes Monkey Trial” was presented to the world by sarcastic journalist H.L. Mencken, Broadway, and Hollywood, and was a huge public relations triumph for Darwinism. People who believed in God’s creation came to be thought of as fools and hicks, and evolution was given the veneer of respectability. Combine this with a strong anti-supernaturalism on the part of many scientists and educators, and today’s acceptance of evolution is understandable.
d. The same attitude is used to squelch debate and questions about evolution today. “When outsiders question whether the theory of evolution is as secure as we have been led to believe, we are firmly told that such questions are out of order. The arguments among the experts are said to be about matters of detail, such as the precise time scale and the mechanism of evolutionary transformations. These disagreements are signs not of crisis but of healthy creative ferment within the field, and in any case there is no room for doubt whatever about something called the ‘fact’ of evolution.” (Johnson) - david guzik - biblehub -
So I watched, and you are correct that they didn't find the part of Ambulocetus's skull where the nasal opening was. What they did find was the top of the skull until about halfway down the upper jaw, and also the entire lower jaw (which is how they know exactly how long the snout was). So yes, the part of Ambulocetus skulls on display do all have casts that make up the end of the snout, for the sake of not displaying a skull that is missing half of its top jaw. That you are spot on about.
The problem comes when you say that they fabricated a blowhole. They didn't fabricate a blowhole, they fabricated a nasal passage on the nose, roughly in the same spot that modern crocodiles have. Those are just meant to be nostrils. If you look at a whale or porpoise, you'll notice that blowholes are always on the top of the head, not on the nose. If scientists had wanted to fabricate Ambulocetus to make it more whale-like, they would drilled a blowhole in the top of the head, but that's not what they did.
For Rhodocetus, I'll check into your claim momentarily, but I just want to first point out that you don't need flippers or a tail to identify a cetacean ancestor. The gradual transition of the earbone in the skull is what they normally use to determine whale relatives, as all primarily aquatic mammals exhibit the finger-boned fins that whales do.
Good post, though. You correctly pointed something out instead of doing dishonest things. Respect
Are you aware that modern whales have finger bones inside of their fins? That's why reconstructions of cetaceans that have missing fins are given fingerbones
I'm sorry you disagree with my words but you are wise to play wait and see. Commendable. I can't wait until you find it to be true for yourself. At least you will know what's going on when it happens. God will extinguish the veil that is up and ALL men and women shall see for themselves. Despite there is a veil up, perhaps if you check out the next full moon, maybe the Lord shall reveal Himself to you. It couldn't hurt to try.
God's Best 4 U!!
Michael
Dear patrick jane,
Good post here! I should have known, eh? Thanks for bringing it to everyone's attention. It's worth the read!! I will give you some more good rep pts. I tried sending you a PM, but you can't get them. It's a bummer. I don't know why.
Praise God!!
Michael
:think:
Well from your POV probably, but not from the Christian POV. In any event, even Carl Sagan wrote about the need to investigate the science you believe. It wasn't that he believed in God in any way, but did expect to be sure of what He believed.
In my case, I am sure....are you?
StanJ please stop referring to your POV as the "Christian POV." It is the YEC POV, and it is limited to a small minority of Christians.
I assume that you want Biblical creationism taught in public schools as science, yes?
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