Creation vs. Evolution

[Jacob]

Precisely, like so many, you subjugate reality to “belief”. And in so doing, you mock truth.

Let me quote back the equivalent of what I heard. “It's not that I don't believe Christianity, it's that I don't believe in that silly crucifixion story.”

Untellectual, for what it’s worth – I spent many years as a dedicated Christian. I read the Bible carefully cover to cover, I taught it for years. When it came to things like whale evolution, I, perhaps like you, pigeonholed it in a recess of my mind. I fully expected that someday I would have convincing answers for such problems.

To make a long story short – one day I realized that if I were a devout Hindu, with equal honesty I could pigeonhole any doubts about the Hindu faith being correct. Or I could use the same to remain a committed Mormon, or Buddhist, or Catholic, or Protestant. In other words, it didn’t matter what the reality was, I had a great technique for not having to honestly confront any question in any faith I embraced.

And that disgusted me. I knew that the person looking back at me out of a mirror was no more than a cowardly liar, hiding from anything that made me uncomfortable in my theology. It was a hard and scary thing to do, but I took a couple hours and literally wrote down all the things I had been hiding from, and promised myself that I would accept truth wherever it lead. Hours later, when I stood up from the table where I had ripped the deceit out of my own soul, I was as much of a changed person as any person has been coming out of the water of baptism.

I mock neither truth nor the God of truth.

Have you read the entire Bible through once? Since you say you have taught the Bible maybe you can answer that question.

Have you read or heard anything about the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, or the practice of crucifixion in general, outside of the Bible? Do you believe Jesus the Christ existed? I do. And I believe He died for my sins so that I would be forgiven. He died for me. I believe it is possible that you will one day see this yourself for yourself.

I recognize your profile says Atheist. I know you said you are not a Hindu and neither are you a Christian. Christian Theology aside have you read the Bible? I believe this is the only scripture we can say is inspired by God.

As for studying evolution, you are trying to lead me along. I know I don't need to believe in evolution to believe in God or Christianity. I have in the past addressed Theistic Evolution. I simply don't believe it.

I do believe that micro-evolution may be possible.

 

[DavisBJ]

I mock neither truth nor the God of truth.

In making that very claim, you did it again.

Have you read the entire Bible through once? Since you say you have taught the Bible maybe you can answer that question.

I have read the Bible. Cover to cover, page by page. I have studied it by subject areas. I have various translations, and commentaries. I have read the Apocryphal books. I have read several extra-biblical works that claim divine origin.

As for studying evolution, you are trying to lead me along. I know I don't need to believe in evolution to believe in God or Christianity. I have in the past addressed Theistic Evolution. I simply don't believe it.

I do believe that micro-evolution may be possible.

There comes a point in a conversation when there is nothing to be gained by continuing to pretend the other side has any real interest in considering your ideas. It is embarrassing to repeatedly show that you are subjugating reality to your narrow brand of theological beliefs. I really wish you were a person with a devotion to truth, but you have made it exquisitely clear that such is not the case.

Since you trust a savage nomadic society to define what is truth for you, then beware, for in Revelations it tells that the stars shall fall to the earth. Almost without exception, each one of the stars you see in the sky is bigger than our sun – millions of times bigger than the earth. But hey, it is in “God’s word”, and so somehow those massive stars are going to jump into warp drive to zip across the trillions of miles, and fall like snow onto the earth. (The next children’s story will be at bedtime.)

 

[Jacob]

In making that very claim, you did it again.

I have read the Bible. Cover to cover, page by page. I have studied it by subject areas. I have various translations, and commentaries. I have read the Apocryphal books. I have read several extra-biblical works that claim divine origin.

There comes a point in a conversation when there is nothing to be gained by continuing to pretend the other side has any real interest in considering your ideas. It is embarrassing to repeatedly show that you are subjugating reality to your narrow brand of theological beliefs. I really wish you were a person with a devotion to truth, but you have made it exquisitely clear that such is not the case.

Since you trust a savage nomadic society to define what is truth for you, then beware, for in Revelations it tells that the stars shall fall to the earth. Almost without exception, each one of the stars you see in the sky is bigger than our sun – millions of times bigger than the earth. But hey, it is in “God’s word”, and so somehow those massive stars are going to jump into warp drive to zip across the trillions of miles, and fall like snow onto the earth. (The next children’s story will be at bedtime.)

If you had kept to the Bible there is a chance you would have read about Jesus and seen the truth of the scriptures for yourself. The reason I don't accept lies or that which deviates from the truth is because of how much I value that which is true. Ultimately Jesus is the truth as without Him no one comes to the Father (this means no one comes to God apart from Jesus). So other religious texts won't help.

 

[DavisBJ]

If you had kept to the Bible there is a chance you would have read about Jesus and seen the truth of the scriptures for yourself. The reason I don't accept lies or that which deviates from the truth is because of how much I value that which is true. Ultimately Jesus is the truth as without Him no one comes to the Father (this means no one comes to God apart from Jesus). So other religious texts won't help.

Simply put, your infantile refusal to accept, or even state, the results I asked you to verify for yourself in wiki falsifies your whole stance. You are a liar and a deceiver in front of the world, and to whatever Gods there may be. You are morally deficient, and have a love for pleasing sounding stories in place of truths that you may not like. Unless I see honesty in future posts from you, then I will not waste my time replying to your requests for me to join you in your moral stupor.

 

[noguru]

Simply put, your infantile refusal to accept, or even state, the results I asked you to verify for yourself in wiki falsifies your whole stance. You are a liar and a deceiver in front of the world, and to whatever Gods there may be. You are morally deficient, and have a love for pleasing sounding stories in place of truths that you may not like. Unless I see honesty in future posts from you, then I will not waste my time replying to your requests for me to join you in your moral stupor.

So do you still think Untellectual is a better example of a Christian than I, simply because of his thin veneer of politeness and his stringent adherence to an ancient pre-scientific interpretation of Genesis?

 

[DavisBJ]

So do you still think Untellectual is a better example of a Christian than I, simply because of his thin veneer of politeness and his stringent adherence to an ancient pre-scientific interpretation of Genesis?

I will admit it, he did a great job of using his politeness as a lure. I get the impression he is still relatively young, and so there is hope that honesty will someday really mean something to him.

 

[noguru]

If you had kept to the Bible there is a chance you would have read about Jesus and seen the truth of the scriptures for yourself. The reason I don't accept lies or that which deviates from the truth is because of how much I value that which is true. Ultimately Jesus is the truth as without Him no one comes to the Father (this means no one comes to God apart from Jesus). So other religious texts won't help.

Jesus would want us to be honest about the evidence. You are not honest.

 

[noguru]

I will admit it, he did a great job of using his politeness as a lure. I get the impression he is still relatively young, and so there is hope that honesty will someday really mean something to him.

I have always been honest about what I see. I have a friend from high school who use to be honest when we were in our 20s. Now he is similar to Untellectual in that he has a superficial veneer of politeness. But underneath that is a seething contempt for reality and honesty, because his strategy is to oppress other people for his own gain. Call it a weakness of mine, but I am outraged by such a strategy.

I do still love him though, and Norman Maclean explained why I do best.

Each one of us here today will at one time in our lives look upon a loved one who is in need and ask the same question: We are willing to help, Lord, but what, if anything, is needed? For it is true we can seldom help those closest to us. Either we don't know what part of ourselves to give or, more often than not, the part we have to give is not wanted. And so it is those we live with and should know who elude us. But we can still love them - we can love completely without complete understanding.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Your answer here shows that I should not waste my time studying the evolutionary view you are speaking of. I asked the question because you are asking me to do something I have no interest doing. If you are opposed to creation (different from creationism too) then you are likely opposed to God as well.

Dear Untellectual,

I couldn't agree more. Good Job!! He doesn't believe in God. He thinks every thing on Earth just happened by chance for him.

Michael

 

[Mark SeaSigh]

I'm Still Waiting for any Evolutionist to Explain How an Species of animal, can Give rise to another Species of Animal.

=M=

How many times do you have to plant an Apple Seed, to get a Pear tree?

Evolutionists Believe that a Great many Mutations, will Ultimately Lead to a New Species of animal, but like we observe in Types of Dogs, Whether it Be a Saint Bernard or A Little Chihuahua, it is Still a Dog. When will a Dog, ever Give birth to an Animal that is Not a Dog?

I'm pretty sure BJ is the Most Clueless of All of them; Considering, I Answered all of His Questions, Before he Asked them.

BJ, I understand that Evolutionists believe that a Water Lizard Grew Legs, then Crawled Out of the Water, and became a Mammal, then that Mammal Returned to the Water, for whatever Reason, continued on to become Whales and Dolphins, then the Whale Grew Legs again, And became a Hippo, then the Hippo Became a Rhino, Right?

Just want to make sure that I've Got the Evolution of the Rhino Down.

Why are Whales, Hippos, and Rhinos all still here today? If they are the Ancestors of each other?


=========================================

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/27/prehistoric-insects-amber-worlds-oldest_n_1834324.html

Check out these Supposed 230 Million year old Mites; Which Included all the Anatomical Features, Fully Developed, and Functional, that you see today, in Modern Mites.

Why are these Creatures not Speciating? Why have these Bugs Remained unchanged up to Present Day?

Evolutionists, Just Cant Say.

From the Article;

And when Grimaldi compared the ancient mites to their modern day descendants, he was surprised about how similar they are. Except for difference in the mouth and fewer legs, "they're dead ringers for (modern) gall mites," he said. The modern ones can be found in bubbles or galls on plant leaves.

Pretty interesting that these Creatures Didn't Gain any New Anatomical Features in a Supposed 230 Million year Time Span, when you consider Evolutionists believe that Man Looked like an Ape 3.2 Million Years Ago.

Modern day Mites;

=====================================

The Same Idea Can Be Applied to this Tree Frog Caught in Amber;

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070217-frog-amber.html

They think this Frog may be 25 Million Years Old. How is it, that this Frog has not Gained any New Anatomical Features in 25 Million Years, but Man is Supposed to have been an Ape Like Being 3.2 Million years Ago?

Fossils Show, that Modern animals have looked the Way they do, for Tens of Millions of Years, How Can you believe, that Man is the Only Creature that Has Changed, So Drastically, Ever?

===================================


Hi Michael!!! : D

 

[MichaelCadry]

You certainly seem to be slow on the uptake, though this might be part of your strategy.

I did not say White and Ussher were in conflict on their YEC views. You need to read my writing more carefully, just as you need to be more careful in reading scripture.

Dear noguru,

I can't believe she (Ellen) even existed, but I see she did. The audacity of her to make up such a lie. That certainly is not the instance with me. Noguru, you seem like a real smart guy, so I'm going to send you a copy of my book and some 'Proof Pages.' (Pages that are copies of the letter to me from the New York Daily News reporter; the letter I wrote to him on ABC-TV stationery (my boss gave me permission to use the letterhead paper any time I wanted to). God spoke to me and said to write back to this reporter and tell him that He would send 7 inches of snow on his NYDaily News Bldg. within 48 hours of him receiving my letter in his mail. Well, it happened. The snow started that morning and I was bummed 'cause I'm not a super fan of the snow and cold after living in Michigan most of my life. Well, 7 inches of snow fell. The reporter was calling my girlfriend all day she said (we moved from Manhattan to Staten Island). As I went to the phone, it rang, and it was the reporter and he was terrified and said don't pray for him anything else, and what did I want?? I told him I wanted a 3-hour interview to share my testimony (what I'd seen and heard from the Lord and his angels, etc., like you'd give to a judge, you know, your testimony). Got my interview and the reporter still wouldn't help me saying his boss would have to make that decision. I just said heck with it. I was scared going to do interviews with reporters and I sure didn't want to go through it all over again with the reporter's Newspaper Owner. Anyway, there are other Proof Pages also. I've chosen noguru because he is who I am looking for. He's been through the things required to search through my book and Proof Pages. He's a good Christian with an interesting past, so out of all, he deserves the chance to review these things I send to him if he wants to. If he doesn't want to, that's okay also. I will trust noguru, which I already do. He is objective and the right man for the situation. But it's up to him. I will PM him and see if he wants to.

Noguru, I'll need your home address, or the address of a neighbor/friend, if you don't want to give me yours, and I will send you everything free of charge and also autographed by me. I trust noguru. I've also pay for postage. It's quite an expense, but worth it.

Will close for now. God Be With You All Always, As He Will Have!!

Michael

I'm very sane, and I'm also not a liar. God will bear witness of me shortly.

mc


:doh:

:carryon:

 

[MichaelCadry]

That is a great question. I don't know. What does the Biblical record say happened first (in creation) and what happened with the world-wide flood in terms of the fossil record?

Dear Un,

You are doing pretty well, except you are too wary and fear being backed into a corner. I can imagine you would do that if someone has pulled it on you a few times already. Sometimes, you speak such simple language and other times, very apt at replying. So how can you be such a Jekyll and Hyde?

Well, I am with you. All of the Bible is true. Sometimes, I question some of what Paul wrote in the New Testament, but that doesn't mean I am right. The Bible is correct always as a recorded work and testimony given by the Lord God, and the prophets.

The whales and birds came forth from the waters when God 'created' the marine life and bird life. But man was created a day after that, I believe. By Genesis, Chptr. One. But now we have Gen. chapter 2 saying that the Lord God 'formed' man before the animals and birds. In fact, it says that the Lord God saw that the man was lonely, so He formed the fowl and animals from the 'ground', and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. Now, it's really hard to define this all and I am not sticking my neck out anymore also. Gen. 1 and 2 can be of two different times, one being creation of Man, and one of forming Man again. For Gen. chapter two says that "and the Lord God saw that the man was lonely and made a help meet (fellow living things) for the man. I'm just not going into this again. If you want to read about it, go to this thread that you're on and read Page one, Post One. I type too much.

OK, y'all. Go for it!! In Attack Mode?

Love You All Anyways, and You Know My Love Is The Real Thing!!!

Michael

:carryon:

:sam:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Mark,

HELLO to you TOO!! How are you doing on that book? PM me only. You are doing a Fantastic Job, Mark. I almost believe you!! (I'm kidding, of course)!!! Wonderful work, Dude!! I'm trying to read everyone's response since I was on this morning and I am going through 5 pages of new posts. And answering them. It is hard work, but good to proclaim the Lord God is the Creator, not some little wizard somewhere, or some kind of natural phenomenal. Give me a break. Do all of you atheists ACTUALLY BELIEVE that we are not the result of a higher power and that instead we just came to be of our own selves. Maybe you should start blaming it on extraterrestrials. That's what Satan has to offer you. It's going to take me all night to get to your replies, because I believe each of your replies deserves a response. It is a lot of work because there are five or six of you and only one of me. Talk about intimidating. Eeeeek!!! It's best to confront reality and a Loving God and Divine Creator and Father to all of us!!

Much Love To You All, Atheists or Theists Irregardless! You're here to learn??

Praise God,

Michael

 

[DavisBJ]

Dear Mark,

... I am going through 5 pages of new posts. And answering them. It is hard work, ...

It appears that Michael feels a need to add his comment in almost every non-trivial exchange in this thread. If he had something to say that wasn’t just the 500th repetition of what he has already cluttered the thread with, then he might be contributing something. As it is, he has an insatiable need to put his stamp on every idea expressed.

 

[MichaelCadry]

And now Michael has posted to me over 8 times. He simply has no shame.

Get over it Davis. I don't keep enemies. Your God didn't say that. Mine did. He said 'Love your enemies and turn the other cheek.' I have no desire to hate a brother because he has different beliefs. I was P.O.d the other day. It happens. All you do is say, Oooh Michael's posting to me. And if I quit posting, you goad me into sticking up for myself by speaking nastily about me anyways.

I don't need these games. People post to each other. That's what this site is about.

Like I said, BJ, get a grip on reality. You need a God to show you what reality really is.

Michael

 

[DavisBJ]

Get over it Davis. I don't keep enemies. Your God didn't say that. Mine did. He said 'Love your enemies and turn the other cheek.' I have no desire to hate a brother because he has different beliefs. I was P.O.d the other day. It happens. All you do is say, Oooh Michael's posting to me. And if I quit posting, you goad me into sticking up for myself by speaking nastily about me anyways.

I don't need these games. People post to each other. That's what this site is about.

Like I said, BJ, get a grip on reality. You need a God to show you what reality really is.

Michael

ignore bin (9 times)

 

[noguru]

I'm Still Waiting for any Evolutionist to Explain How an Species of animal, can Give rise to another Species of Animal.

And you will continue to wait until you actually pay attention to the evidence.

Just a side note:

Why do you even need someone to explain it to you? Are you truly incapable of understanding the natural processes involved, so therefore must automatically attribute biodiversity to the "supernatural"?

All I can say is that I pray some day you will understand and realize that seeing the natural world as a contradiction to God is in itself a logical contradiction. Perhaps you will eventually accept the method God has chosen to use.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Alwight and Michael 8-1-2014

Alwight and Michael 8-1-2014

Hi Michael,
No I didn't learn anything from Mark. :nono:

I don't have a problem with anyone believing that a god has organized things so that speciation occurs by evidenced natural processes but perhaps we should only concern ourselves here with the empirical evidence rather than bald assertions of faith?

Evidence indicates that Cetacea (whales etc) evolved from air breathing land creatures that returned to the sea. Sorry but no one's ancient scriptural beliefs and assertions, however strongly held, counts as rebuttal evidence to that afaic.

Are you talking about a whale, etc. mimicking a turtle or frog/toad, or alligator, etc. They all lay eggs, right? From what is written in Gen. 1, God created the whales BEFORE the land creatures, the water animals a day before the land animals. But now, in Gen. 2, it is written that the Lord God formed the fowl and land animals from the ground AFTER He formed man. And He saw that the man was lonely and made a help meet for Him. And the Lord formed the fowl and animals from the earth, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. I'm not sure, but it almost seems like two different instances here of creating Adam or forming Adam. The whale was always a water creature. I'm getting too deep here, so I'll keep my silence. But actually, Who do you think changed the whales tail into a rhino or hippo rump? And when he went back in the water, who changed his rump back into a tail? I know they seem like silly questions to silly hypotheses.

Science isn't a matter of which flavor you happen to like Michael or whether you are lucky enough to pick the right conclusion. It doesn't even matter if ultimately you are wrong providing you have honestly assessed and understood all the evidence. A mathematics exam is not about simply having the right answers, it requires that the process of obtaining the answers is demonstrably understood.
I think those who actually do understand the processes and evidence of natural sciences will neither be OEC nor YEC, while those like Mr Kent Hovind are perhaps rather more dishonest than actually lacking the ability to understand.

Thank you Michael.

Thank you also, Al. You know, I posted a response to you about this post of yours, but lost it almost when it was finished. Bummer!! Well, I'll try to make sure this gets to you.

Hey Mate!! Blessings!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

DavisBJ and Michael 8-2-2014

DavisBJ and Michael 8-2-2014

What is interesting is the “evolutionary view I am speaking of” is just what science – divorced from any prior religious, personal, political, or social biases has concluded. I take it you prefer an “evolutionary view” that ignores the real world, and instead is supportive of legends passed down millennia ago by ignorant nomads. That is certainly something you have the right to do, shutting your eyes and plugging your ears to reality. Not something I would be very proud of, and if I believed in a God that wanted me to do that, then both I am my god would be fools.

I am glad my interaction with you brought your religious devotion to fiction into full view substantially more quickly than the abortive effort months ago, but I had honestly hoped that the Christian vaunted moral standard of truth had been more than window dressing for you. But I still appreciate your courtesy.

The public library has numerous other fiction accounts, if you tire of the one you are immersed in now. Thanks for your time.

Dear Davis,

But WHO is the Ignorant Nomad? Take two steps forward.

Best Wishes,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

In making that very claim, you did it again.

I have read the Bible. Cover to cover, page by page. I have studied it by subject areas. I have various translations, and commentaries. I have read the Apocryphal books. I have read several extra-biblical works that claim divine origin.

There comes a point in a conversation when there is nothing to be gained by continuing to pretend the other side has any real interest in considering your ideas. It is embarrassing to repeatedly show that you are subjugating reality to your narrow brand of theological beliefs. I really wish you were a person with a devotion to truth, but you have made it exquisitely clear that such is not the case.

Since you trust a savage nomadic society to define what is truth for you, then beware, for in Revelations it tells that the stars shall fall to the earth. Almost without exception, each one of the stars you see in the sky is bigger than our sun – millions of times bigger than the earth. But hey, it is in “God’s word”, and so somehow those massive stars are going to jump into warp drive to zip across the trillions of miles, and fall like snow onto the earth. (The next children’s story will be at bedtime.)

Dear BJ,

I believe the same things that Untellectual does, give or take some. We do not trust in a savage nomadic people (like it seems you are stoning your ancestors). The people in the Bible are not savage, ignorant nomads. You are out of your frying mind. But what else is new. It has to be your way or no way. You know, you'll be pleading with Jesus quite soon, and He will say, "Depart from me, for I never knew you." That is not too cool at all. We love Our God and His Son, and we believe in the Creation story. You just got too much of it when you were younger, and you overloaded.

Pick Your Own Poison,

Michael