Creation vs. Evolution

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Jacob

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She is the historical founder of modern day YEC objections to the church and science. Prior to her "visions", many Christians who sought to support Ussher's Chronology discovered that all the available evidence did not support this chronology of origins. So Ellen claimed that revelation from the Holy Spirit, and specifically her visions should trump any evidence in science.
I believe scientific evidences support varying views, but that when science is accurate it supports the creation and flood accounts of the Biblical record. That is, it is not about dismissing evidence on account of it being labeled or termed scientific. It is about belief in the Bible and acceptance of the evidence in science for creation and the flood.
 

noguru

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I believe scientific evidences support varying views, but that when science is accurate it supports the creation and flood accounts of the Biblical record. That is, it is not about dismissing evidence on account of it being labeled or termed scientific. It is about belief in the Bible and acceptance of the evidence in science for creation and the flood.

Do you think I have not heard this exact rationalization of this stance before?

Do you think I have not thoroughly investigated the veracity of such claims?
 

Jacob

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:rolleyes:

Me too, just not your Ellen G White tainted version of it.
The days of creation are six, with evening and morning to each. I don't know if Ellen G White agrees with that, but this is what I stand on in the Biblical account of the day of creation.
 

Jacob

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Do you think I have not heard this exact rationalization of this stance before?

Do you think I have not thoroughly investigated the veracity of such claims?
I wasn't even talking to you. I am just answering your interruption. If you have something against me feel free. For now you know where I stand. Do you think I should not express myself because you might want to say you have heard the exact thing before from myself or someone else?
 

noguru

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The days of creation are six, with evening and morning to each. I don't know if Ellen G White agrees with that, but this is what I stand on in the Biblical account of the day of creation.

I am aware of this fallacious rationalization of scripture. But certainly Ellen G. White was a pioneer who first blazed this trail, when all other reasonable Christians were starting to recognize that Ussher's Chronology was inaccurate.
 

Jacob

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I am aware of this fallacious rationalization of scripture. But certainly Ellen G. White was a pioneer who first blazed this trail, when all other reasonable Christians were starting to recognize that Ussher's Chronology was inaccurate.
It's not a rationalization and it has nothing to do with science. It is simply relating what the scriptures say if you would just read them.

I have heard of both Ellen G. White and Sir James Ussher, but I don't know of any conflict between them on any subject.
 

noguru

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I wasn't even talking to you. I am just answering your interruption. If you have something against me feel free. For now you know where I stand. Do you think I should not express myself because you might want to say you have heard the exact thing before from myself or someone else?

I have no problem with you clinging stringently to your theistic beliefs. The problem I have is when you try to label them "science". I believe that is deceitful, and I have a right to express my views on that as well.
 

Jacob

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Just believing something exists doesn't make it exist.

Stuart
That is true, but now you are talking about the existence of evidence when I was talking about whether or not a particular evidence of science or observation of mankind would support creation, Intelligent Design, and the Biblical model... or rather instead the theory of evolution.
 

noguru

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It's not a rationalization and it has nothing to do with science. It is simply relating what the scriptures say if you would just read them.

I have heard of both Ellen G. White and Sir James Ussher, but I don't know of any conflict between them on any subject.

You certainly seem to be slow on the uptake, though this might be part of your strategy.

I did not say White and Ussher were in conflict on their YEC views. You need to read my writing more carefully, just as you need to be more careful in reading scripture.
 

Stuu

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That is true, but now you are talking about the existence of evidence when I was talking about whether or not a particular evidence of science or observation of mankind would support creation, Intelligent Design, and the Biblical model... or rather instead the theory of evolution.
So the existence of the evidence is irrelevant?

Stuart
 

Jacob

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I have no problem with you clinging stringently to your theistic beliefs. The problem I have is when you try to label them "science". I believe that is deceitful, and I have a right to express my views on that as well.
Anything that can be observed can be observed. That is a place to start learning anything, including that which is found in the Bible (whether this be learning by reading or learning by comparing what you find with what other people say).

To say science disagrees with the Bible would be to find oneself in error, especially in that sacred scripture is the inspired or God-breathed word of God.

To say that the creation accounts found in the Bible are scientific in origin would be to say that science existed when the author or authors of Genesis wrote what they did. To say they do not disagree with the findings of science in so far as that science agrees with reality (that truth corresponds to reality is generally a good philosophical foundation for dialog about the real world) is much more tenable.
 

Jacob

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So the existence of the evidence is irrelevant?

Stuart
No, it is not irrelevant. The point is that all evidence does not necessarily lead to the same conclusion. The idea is that a conclusion can be arrived at when we see how the available evidence agrees.
 

noguru

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So the existence of the evidence is irrelevant?

Stuart

Well that is pretty much what Ellen G White felt as well. It was her groupie Henry Morris who took it upon himself to try and prove her visions by distorting science.

Ussher was all about evidence. But the only evidence he had available was the written history surrounding scripture and the gospel, so he went with what was available at the time.
 

Jacob

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You certainly seem to be slow on the uptake, though this might be part of your strategy.

I did not say White and Ussher were in conflict on their YEC views. You need to read my writing more carefully, just as you need to be more careful in reading scripture.
I don't know for sure if they both hold to YEC views, but I have no issue with them in this belief if they do. There is a lot of value in Young Earth Creationism.
 

DavisBJ

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This can only be "are you asking about creation or the flood?".
I have said nothing about the flood. I started with, and have consistently been referring to what is described in Genesis 1.

What does the fossil record actually show as to whether birds and whales preceded land animals?
 
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