Is it truth that wins a debate, or the skill of the most persuasive debater?
Creation vs. Evolution
- Thread starter MichaelCadry
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Do you understand what the word 'cite' means?
It's a pretty basic concept for anyone with any knowledge of scientific or historical methods.
Stuart
Well, you are a kind soul indeed. A geyser of info!! I tried going to Google and I typed in Old Bones, etc. and got nowhere, so I finally gave up.
Now I know Uri didn't do it by magic, but he could have. It's sort of like the magicians from Moses time. Aaron threw his rod down and it turned into a snake. And the magicians threw their rods down and they turned into snakes, but Aaron's snake ate both of their snakes!! So see, some do it by magic and some do it by actuality, even though he can't 'prove' his way out of it. From what I understand, he is making a healthy living now out of finding diamonds by telling Egypt where to dig, etc. I know he is a millionaire. All that I can do is relay what the angel said to me.
You never cease to impress me. I never thought to type in 'age of man.' Yes, I watched that episode of Uri on Johnny Carson when I was younger. I don't think he was able to do anything though.
Now Hedshaker, you know how wonderful it is that you and Noguru are to me as friends. But I'm finally deciding to be an OEC (Old Earth Creationist). I don't have all of the answers, except I did believe it for up to 40 years. I can't quite remember when the religious experience I had happened, but I remember I thought it odd that it was written, "And He called THEIR name 'Adam' in the day THEY were created." That was the flint stone that changed my understanding of the situation in earth's history of men/women. I don't want to mislead anybody, so I'll keep my beliefs on some things under my hat from now on, because I switched back and forth like a badminton birdie.
Thank you so very much to you and to Noguru for doing all the hard work for me, work I could not probably ever figure out how to do. Noguru is such a good person and so are you, and one is Christian and the other Atheist. I think it's wonderful. I definitely am going to study the links you gave me Hedshaker. The world is my oyster now!! So Hedshaker, this means that man is older than 6,000 years old, right? I will study the links and find out probably anyways. You have a wonderful life and Make It COUNT!!
Best Wishes and Cheerio!!
Michael
:think:
noguru
Well-known member
Can we see the rest of the quote that you claim was meant by the bold faced part?
And can you include the reference to the original text in its entirety?
Dear Noguru,
Thanks so very much!! Still, I do believe Uri had powers, even though they were similar to magicians abilities too. It was Uri's 'wound.' A Frenchman came after Uri doing the same miracles, and they studied it at the Stanford Research Institute. His name was Jean-Pierre Girard. The angel told me he was the False Prophet and that Uri was the Antichrist/beast. You remember Moses' snake and the two magicians' snakes. Moses staff turned to a snake by a miracle from God, the magicians by the devil, and Moses' snakes ate up the magicians' snakes. COOL!!!!
I have had so many friends come to this Thread and I am the luckiest man in the world for your support and care, and help. I am near tears. I shed some, but they did not fall on my keyboard. But I had to dry the moisture in my eyes. Too bad I don't still wear contacts. (I had both eyes operated on and now I see 20/20. Thanks again, you guys!! Sometimes, I get so sentimental.
God Bless Your Large Hearts!!
Michael
:think:
Dear noguru,
Yes, I was quite surprised when I heard they could walk on two feet. I thought we hit our homo homo sapien. Well, I'm going to be up late listening to everyone's links for me. This shall be an interesting night. Thank you again, Noguru, for setting me on the right path. I'm tired of being a ping-pong ball. Heheheheh!!
May God Enrich Your Lives As A Favor To Me (As I Pray To Him)!!
Michael
:drum:
Hedshaker
New member
The Theory of Evolution is science. Here, let me answer your next 3 assertions to save you the bother. yes it is. Yes it is. Yes it is....
Never met on yet who gives a jot.**
noguru answers that quite well.
Biblical creation is a myth not a model. Science does not support a talking snake or cursed fruit.
Good, so we keep creationism/ID out of science class.
It's good that you think you know what other people believe. No arrogance there then :blabla:
So about your scientific theory of an un-caused creator. What is it? Don't be afraid to go into detail. Start with the functioning of gods creation factory and where it is.
No it doesn't.**
Sure it does. :rotfl: **
If you think I'm here to dance to your tune you must be, as suspected, seriously deluded. Snakes cannot talk. They don't got the larynx, see?
Good, so we keep creationism/ID out of the science class. **
I'm done with this. Feel free to massage your ego until you achieve happiness.
Mike Makes Predictions For Noguru!
Mike Makes Predictions For Noguru!
Dear noguru,
Hi! It's Michael. This post was for 6days. About the last sentence, I can make some predictions. I can predict that BEFORE the Great Earthquake in L.A./Hollywood, there will be an Earthquake Greater than any since man has been on earth first or initially. I cannot say definitely where that earthquake will be. My best belief is a resounding, definite Phoenix, AZ. At Least 7,000 men shall die. It will split the city into 3 parts. It could be NYC, but I'm betting my money on Phoenix. OK, noguru, that is TWO predictions I will make. Before Jesus Returns, many people shall see the sign of His Coming by watching the moon. No, I'm not talking about a lunar eclipse. Something else. Most, if not, all of you shall see it. That's my THIRD prediction. Hollywood/L.A. shall be utterly burnt with fire. And there shall also be a great flood there. Well, that's FIVE predictions. And I could go on. These things you will see happen before the next few years. Now, I'm still struggling with being a OEC or YEC, but those things I've just told you, I do know about, for sure. Hope you'll give me that chance. God Bless A Brother!!
Michael
Mike Makes Predictions For Noguru!
Dear noguru,
Hi! It's Michael. This post was for 6days. About the last sentence, I can make some predictions. I can predict that BEFORE the Great Earthquake in L.A./Hollywood, there will be an Earthquake Greater than any since man has been on earth first or initially. I cannot say definitely where that earthquake will be. My best belief is a resounding, definite Phoenix, AZ. At Least 7,000 men shall die. It will split the city into 3 parts. It could be NYC, but I'm betting my money on Phoenix. OK, noguru, that is TWO predictions I will make. Before Jesus Returns, many people shall see the sign of His Coming by watching the moon. No, I'm not talking about a lunar eclipse. Something else. Most, if not, all of you shall see it. That's my THIRD prediction. Hollywood/L.A. shall be utterly burnt with fire. And there shall also be a great flood there. Well, that's FIVE predictions. And I could go on. These things you will see happen before the next few years. Now, I'm still struggling with being a OEC or YEC, but those things I've just told you, I do know about, for sure. Hope you'll give me that chance. God Bless A Brother!!
Michael
alwight
New member
Hi Michael,
:cheers:
It's sure not easy.
I think my grandmother was in her eighties, just how it is I suppose.
SD cards are common memory cards found in cameras and computers. It's simply a digital copy of my music so even if they get lost it doesn't really matter I can always make a new one. Modern car CD players will let you play many hours of MP3 recordings rather than having to carry your CDs around, it's a similar idea. Then again I haven't bought any CDs for a long time, I download my new music.
Most beaches on the Isle of Wight are sandy while other parts near here can be sand or pebbles.
Thanks Michael,
:cheers:
noguru
Well-known member
I don't think I will have a choice but to give you a chance and see if your predictions line up. But those are not the kind of predictions I was referring to. And I do not think they confirm the creation model or falsify the naturalistic model.
noguru
Well-known member
I don't think I will have a choice but to give you a chance and see if your predictions line up. But those are not the kind of predictions I was referring to. And I do not think they confirm the creation model or falsify the naturalistic model.
Hedshaker
New member
Michael, Al
Isn't modern technology grand? In my bedroom/studio I have my main computer, laptop, smart TV and smart phone all networked to my broadband service. When I'm out walking the dogs or riding the bus I can listen to music from my phone, or I can stream podcasts. I don't listen with headbuds when cycling, too dangerous. I keep all my files backed up to an external usb hard drive, just in case.
Love it. If we had this technology in the 60s and 70s we could have really rock and rolled :drum:
6days
New member
Hedshaker said:
The belief in a common ancestor is scientism. It is NOT science.*
Oxfordictionary.comThe intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment
The belief in a common ancestor is not observable, nor can you do repeatable experiments.*
Hedshaker said:
Who?
See above for a definition of science.
At best what might be said is that evolutionism and creationism are a type of historical science.
Hedshaker said:
Neither does science support life coming from non life...but that is the atheistic model. The Biblical model which thousands of scientists agree to is that in the beginning God created.
The Biblical account does tell of the serpent in the garden...and later of a donkey supernaturally given voice.*
Hedshaker said:
Hedshaker said:
alwight
New member
Yes kids of today might not understand. I remember the "fun" of rewinding a compact cassette because what you wanted was always somewhere down at the other end or somewhere on the other side.
Then one day tapes could be played either way, that was quite good.
Then they could fast forward to a gap in the music which may or may not have been the start of a new track? :liberals:.
CD players usually meant you could find what you wanted to play if you had the right CD with you, which I usually didn't.
Then you could fill your own CDs with MP3s and find tracks easily.
Now I could live in my car for a month and never have to run out of music or repeat a track with what is already on SD, and they don't clutter up the car.
Or I could plug in an iPod...I never know what to play, too much choice, so I might as well just listen to the radio...:bang: Just like the old days let someone else pick the music.
:tunes:
Hedshaker
New member
The Scientific Case for Common Descent
Common descent
More Common descent
The Proof Is in the Proteins: Test Supports Universal Common Ancestor for All Life
I know, I know it's the great atheist scientific conspiracy again.
So how does any of that apply to creationism, exactly?
But you can for creationism eh? I see :comeout: :nono:
Lalalalalalalalala.... I can't hear you.
And how does your definition apply to creation myths?
Except that the Theory of Evolution is science and creationism is religion. This is getting boring.
Spoken like a well trained parrot. At some point life must have come from none life whether it was poofed by one of the many magic supernatural gods or whether it emerged naturally. Since no supernatural magic has ever been observed and everything that once was thought to be supernatural turns out to be perfectly natural, I plum for the natural. You must believe what ever floats your boat.
I will not repeat myself again. Further parrot-like repartition will be answered by the following: religious platitude.
My personal favourite apologetic, which I heard years ago on another forum, was: of course the serpent couldn't talk but Satan may have been throwing his voice from behind a bush. Brilliant! How elegant is that? The snake was Satan's ventriloquists dummy. Could have happened that way. But in a topsy turvy world where anything can happen it might not have even been Satan. What if it was a cheeky leprechaun playing games. Wouldn't that be something? A playful leprechaun causes original sin through Satan by proxy. Deep!
Hedshaker said:
Are you quoting me there cause I don't remember saying that and I certainly wouldn't refer to the scientific Theory of Evolution as evolutionism so you've lost me on that bit.
So where did this "uncaused Creator" come from then? It either popped into existence from nothing or always existed in nothing, which is essentially the same thing, isn't it? I mean, there's no always in nothing. In fact, there's no anything in nothing. Nothing is just, you know...... nothing. But please try to resist with the usual apologetics..... god is outside of time blah blah. I've heard em all at least 4.5 billion times
The thing that strikes me as most odd about the god concept is that you guys take it seriously. Many centuries ago, pre-science, poor education etc, maybe such superstitious mumbo jumbo could appear viable. But in this age? Really?? Oh well. Takes all sorts I guess :think:
I don't buy it and I'm far from alone. Maybe I'm just a few centuries before my time....<insert meaningful French phrase here>
I don't know and neither do you. Therefore I can't tell you what I believe but I can tell you what I don't believe: I do not believe there was ever any such thing as "nothing". Nothing is a fantasy. From nothing, nothing comes. The Big Bang event may be responsible for the eye blink we call the universe but no one, including cosmologists and theologians, can possibly know the state of existence before then. There is no shame IMHO in admitting you don't know when such knowledge is not available. The only shame is pretending you do know or believing that ancient pre-science, superstitious people had the foggiest idea. They didn't' I don't. You don't, nor does anyone.
We can only make assumptions based on what we do know at this time. Energy cannot be created and cannot be destroyed but can change form. Why assume that has ever been any different? The transformation of energy goes on around us all the time. What did pre Big Bang energy mean....? Don't know, neither do you, nor does anyone.
Covered above.
Bald assertion and religious platitude. Believe what you want, it's your mind.
The Parrot Sketch
Now, I've already wasted far too much time on this and, believe it or not, I do have a life outside this forum. So I really am done now. No really. I'm giving you last word. Fill your boots. Get original and tell us
what a wonderful time it is to be a Christian and how science supports the Biblical account. One more time can't hurt
:drum:......... It's your stage, don't hold back
Dear Hedshaker,
Yes, technology has been super-kind to us, even being able to share our words with each other. Without it all, we would not even be having this thread and posts. Thank God that He helped cause it to be!! And I would have had a hell of a time trying to reach all of you people with my sign standing on a street corner (or in front of Walmart). I twitter too, and wow, do I get people wanting a copy of my Free book. My newest addition is available as of yesterday. It is the 6th Edition. The 5th and 6th Edition has almost the same covers. One just says 6th Edition on the cover and the spine of the book. I've also contacted Israel and U.S. President Obama with copies of my book and Proof Pages. Thank you God for the great computer, our Brother Word Processor. I had that before, just to write my book. Well, will close for now, brother!
God Give You The Heads Up On The Truth,
Michael
Yes, technology has been super-kind to us, even being able to share our words with each other. Without it all, we would not even be having this thread and posts. Thank God that He helped cause it to be!! And I would have had a hell of a time trying to reach all of you people with my sign standing on a street corner (or in front of Walmart). I twitter too, and wow, do I get people wanting a copy of my Free book. My newest addition is available as of yesterday. It is the 6th Edition. The 5th and 6th Edition has almost the same covers. One just says 6th Edition on the cover and the spine of the book. I've also contacted Israel and U.S. President Obama with copies of my book and Proof Pages. Thank you God for the great computer, our Brother Word Processor. I had that before, just to write my book. Well, will close for now, brother!
God Give You The Heads Up On The Truth,
Michael
noguru
Well-known member
The Scientific Case for Common Descent
Common descent
More Common descent
The Proof Is in the Proteins: Test Supports Universal Common Ancestor for All Life
I know, I know it's the great atheist scientific conspiracy again.
So how does any of that apply to creationism, exactly?
But you can for creationism eh? I see :comeout: :nono:
Lalalalalalalalala.... I can't hear you.
And how does your definition apply to creation myths?
Except that the Theory of Evolution is science and creationism is religion. This is getting boring.
Spoken like a well trained parrot. At some point life must have come from none life whether it was poofed by one of the many magic supernatural gods or whether it emerged naturally. Since no supernatural magic has ever been observed and everything that once was thought to be supernatural turns out to be perfectly natural, I plum for the natural. You must believe what ever floats your boat.
I will not repeat myself again. Further parrot-like repartition will be answered by the following: religious platitude.
My personal favourite apologetic, which I heard years ago on another forum, was: of course the serpent couldn't talk but Satan may have been throwing his voice from behind a bush. Brilliant! How elegant is that? The snake was Satan's ventriloquists dummy. Could have happened that way. But in a topsy turvy world where anything can happen it might not have even been Satan. What if it was a cheeky leprechaun playing games. Wouldn't that be something? A playful leprechaun causes original sin through Satan by proxy. Deep!
Are you quoting me there cause I don't remember saying that and I certainly wouldn't refer to the scientific Theory of Evolution as evolutionism so you've lost me on that bit.
So where did this "uncaused Creator" come from then? It either popped into existence from nothing or always existed in nothing, which is essentially the same thing, isn't it? I mean, there's no always in nothing. In fact, there's no anything in nothing. Nothing is just, you know...... nothing. But please try to resist with the usual apologetics..... god is outside of time blah blah. I've heard em all at least 4.5 billion times
The thing that strikes me as most odd about the god concept is that you guys take it seriously. Many centuries ago, pre-science, poor education etc, maybe such superstitious mumbo jumbo could appear viable. But in this age? Really?? Oh well. Takes all sorts I guess :think:
I don't buy it and I'm far from alone. Maybe I'm just a few centuries before my time....<insert meaningful French phrase here>
I don't know and neither do you. Therefore I can't tell you what I believe but I can tell you what I don't believe: I do not believe there was ever any such thing as "nothing". Nothing is a fantasy. From nothing, nothing comes. The Big Bang event may be responsible for the eye blink we call the universe but no one, including cosmologists and theologians, can possibly know the state of existence before then. There is no shame IMHO in admitting you don't know when such knowledge is not available. The only shame is pretending you do know or believing that ancient pre-science, superstitious people had the foggiest idea. They didn't' I don't. You don't, nor does anyone.
We can only make assumptions based on what we do know at this time. Energy cannot be created and cannot be destroyed but can change form. Why assume that has ever been any different? The transformation of energy goes on around us all the time. What did pre Big Bang energy mean....? Don't know, neither do you, nor does anyone.
Covered above.
Bald assertion and religious platitude. Believe what you want, it's your mind.
The Parrot Sketch
Now, I've already wasted far too much time on this and, believe it or not, I do have a life outside this forum. So I really am done now. No really. I'm giving you last word. Fill your boots. Get original and tell us
what a wonderful time it is to be a Christian and how science supports the Biblical account. One more time can't hurt
:drum:......... It's your stage, don't hold back
Excellent post. Thank you for the time and effort to address 6gays (the most extreme simpleton I have yet witnessed on this site, and there are lots of them) absurd response. Especially the links at the very beginning. I certainly appreciate this post as I have come near to the end of my patience in responding to his repeated errors and illogical comments. I really do not know how 6gays remembers to breathe, given the sheer stupidity of the majority of his posts.
Here is an accurate and astute assessment from your first link.
I find this quite appropriate for creationists, because this is what separates these boys from the men of science and philosophy. They ultimately fall back upon the mysteries regarding the origins of life and/or the origins of matter/energy in their misguided zeal to support their theological faith. In doing this they make complete fools of themselves. But in their mind it is OK to be a fool for Jesus.
It kind of reminds me of this following song by The Main Ingredient:
| Everybody Plays the Fool | |
I always thought it was Smokey Robinson.
At any rate I just want you to know that your time (and effort) was not wasted on me.
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Because I just recently started participating in this thread, I have been scanning over some of the prior posts. This one caught my attention:
I have the book Ben mentions (with the proviso that the title is actually “Out of My Later Years”), and I wanted to see in context what was being said. Unless Ben’s copy is radically different than mine, the entire quote Ben attributes to Einstein is a sheer fabrication. I searched for the exact quote, to no avail. Then I made several searches for approximate content that might allow Ben’s quote to be just a paraphrase – searches using just the words “personal”, “atheist”, “believe”, and even “never”. Nothing even close was found. But here is a direct quote from the book, as Ben says, “from (Einstein’s) pen”:
| In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vast power in the hands of priests. In their labors they will have to avail themselves of those forces which are capable of cultivating the Good, the True, and the Beautiful in humanity itself. |
Hedshaker
New member
Well, thank you for the compliment old friend, it's good to know that at least someone appreciates the effort. I began that reply to 6days intending to keep it short and simple because of a Drum & Bass project I've been working on, but then kind of got a little carried away. This is often why I try not to get too involved with these exchanges. It's all too easy to get overly consumed in something that can detract from precious moments of creativity and inspiration.
However, even when it is obvious that ones opponent gains nothing from the effort, it is heart warming to learn that someone else does.
Thank you :thumb:
And now for something completely different
| Ha ha! | |
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Hedshaker
New member
Michael, do you ever give anyone full credit for their hard work, creativity and inspiration? Yes modern technology is awesome but it it solely due to the inspiration and hard work of those trailblazers who themselves stand on the shoulders of the deep thinkers that preceded them.
Every single advancement in technology, medicine, engineering, knowledge and just about everything that we enjoy today has come about by the great works and sheer diligence that emanates from the human spirit.
Quite frankly it leaves me cold that anyone with a natural functioning brain should feel the need to belittle their effort in favour of sand castles in the sky.
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