Creation vs. Evolution

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MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
DEAR ALL,

Be sure to see my Page No. 294, Post #4401. It is very IMPORTANT information that you all deserve to know!! Check it out.

God Bless Your Heart And Soul!

Michael
 

alwight

New member
You gave me quite a chuckle there!! Are you a tad overweight also?? I'm needing to lost 30 lbs. I was 135 lbs. for most of my life. Now, I have 30 lbs. in my belly. I will get rid of it or die trying.
Yes Michael, I could certainly lose a few pounds.

Yes, I am from Michigan, USA. I know what humidity is like. It feels more like 85 or 87, eh??
100+ more like.;)

I had no idea you have a Mother who is 90 years old. That is exceptional!! You must be 60-70, eh? I'm proud of you. She is in good hands (yours) and she's probably loving living again meeting new people. And you might as well start selling her property rather than waiting until she is gone. She may surprise you and live longer. Are you selling most everything in the house along with the house??
She once predicted she would be gone in 2012 so I'm doing quite well I think.

Well, I thought fishing was a sport! I knew you did scuba diving, but it did not sink in that it was in the sea. I thought maybe swimming pools and some lakes. Must be nice living so close to an ocean. Is the Atlantic Ocean water all around your Island of Wight?? Do you have any lakes up north in England??
The Lake District.

Al, you are so lucky to have a new car. I want a Ford Fusion, but looks like that isn't going to happen. At least I have a Ford Escort. I've been getting my use of it. It's a 2001 Ford Escort ZX2 with a spoiler. But it's only a 2-door. But the back seats fold down forward, and you can fit tons of things in the trunk. It's hard to explain. It's also got a 6-CD changer in the trunk, so that no one can steal it or your CDs. It's got some dings, but I think I might need a part for the Park/Drive sensor. Also, soon I'll need some new struts. But for what I pay for it, I just pay routine car repairs, instead of a new car payment, which would cost me more. My car is already all paid off. Yippee!!!
CDs? How quaint Michael. :D
These days I have a copy of all my music on couple of SD cards in the car. Times have changed since my first cassette player.

Oh, yes, I did mean swimming without your scuba gear. I can see what you mean. Don't need Hepatitis A. I had a neighbor die from that. I can swim, but I'm touchy about the water. When I was younger, my Dad had me in his arms, and my Uncle had one of my sisters in his arms, and they both dropped us in the deep water and saying 'Swim.' They thought they were teaching us. I swallowed so much water, that I and she has a unseemly fright of water, to be honest.
There's nothing wrong in learning to swim slowly and one day finding that you can. :plain:

I guess everyone goes to the beach in London. There must be a lot of beaches. I mean, really!! We have a few man-made lakes here in Phoenix and outskirts, and we can go there. But to go to the Pacific, it's about a 400 mile drive. I would love it though. I've been in the Atlantic Ocean and I loved it. I surely should break down and go swimming in the Pacific. We'll see what happens.
I don't think there is much in the way of beaches in London Michael, not when I lived there anyway.
;)

Hey, I'm getting really good with these quote boxes now. I'm not as timid as I used to be about them. It was so frustrating before, you can not imagine, really.

Well, you take great care and enjoy your Mom while she's still alive. It's nice if she has her wits about her. Give her a kiss for me!!

Your Good Friend, Michael

:eek: :drum:
:e4e:
 

Hedshaker

New member
I wouldn't do no bending spoons with him. I have better things to do with my life for God. The only one bending those spoons is Satan, doing it by electromagnetic force.

You do know Michael that Uri Geller was exposed as a fraud years ago by James Randi? The spoon bending was a clever trick that had nothing to do with Satan or any other fictitious character. Geller would have regained some respect had he come clean in the beginning and admitted it was trickery for the purpose of entertainment, like all stage magicians.

Dearest Hedshaker,

t must be hot there. You live in England or New Zealand. I never can remember. I'm not really sure how to try Google, but I will give it a chance. Thanks Hedshaker!!

Kindest Regards and Blessings,

Michael

I live in middle England Michael.

You just type what you are looking for into a Google search bar and press enter. But anyway I did the work for you and provided a link. Whenever you see a piece of text with a line under it and naybe a different colour, that's usually a link.

Like this: Have you tried Google?. Click it.

The name James Randi above is also a link.

All the best
 

noguru

Well-known member

It is amazing that even after Randi exposed Geller as a fraud on the Tonight Show that people still believed he was psychic and had special powers. It is just like with Mark Seemsohigh (and others like him), where even after the misconceptions have been clearly exposed, he continues unabated in his fervor for his claims.
 

Hedshaker

New member
It is amazing that even after Randi exposed Geller as a fraud on the Tonight Show that people still believed he was psychic and had special powers. It is just like with Mark Seemsohigh (and others like him), where even after the misconceptions have been clearly exposed, he continues unabated in his fervor for his claims.

It's one of life's mysteries to me. Time and time again these so called psychics have been exposed for the frauds they all are, with their parlour tricks and their cold reading. You would think the general public would be grateful.

Maybe most people just like being duped, I dunno.... :confused:
 

noguru

Well-known member
Dear Noguru,

What do you mean by the Post previous to this one about the Tanzania footprints. Also, this photo; how about a hominid. Is that an upright walking person? What is an obligate bipedal homonid? I would say it walked on two feet, right?

Hey, I know I'm getting too far, because I've passed your thread and Hedshaker's thread somehow. I will go find them and answer them right now. It has been a VERY BUSY DAY!!

Much Love In God AND Jesus Christ, As Always!!

Michael


:confused: :think:

Michael, an obligate bipedal hominid means the animal is a hominid, though not necessarily a homo sapien sapien. Obligate bipedal means they walked primarily on two legs.

Hominidae

The term "hominid" is also used in the more restricted sense as hominins or "humans and relatives of humans closer than chimpanzees". In this usage, all hominid species other than Homo sapiens are extinct. A number of known extinct genera are grouped with humans in the Homininae subfamily, others with orangutans in the Ponginae subfamily. The most recent common ancestor of the Hominidae lived roughly 14 million years ago, when the ancestors of the orangutans speciated from the ancestors of the other three genera. The ancestors of the Hominidae family had already speciated from those of the Hylobatidae family, perhaps 15 million to 20 million years ago.

Homo sapien

Subspecies of H. sapiens include Homo sapiens idaltu and the only extant subspecies Homo sapiens sapiens. Some sources show Homo sapiens neanderthalensis as a subspecies of H. sapiens. Similarly, the discovered specimens of the Homo rhodesiensis species have been classified by some as a subspecies, but this classification is not widely accepted.
 

6days

New member
Hedshaker said:
6days said:
The evidence fits even better with the Biblical account that God created. Evolutionism is a belief system that often denies the most logical explanation of evidence.
.

Creationism is not science, it is religion...

Creationism is not science...it is a belief about the past.

Evolutionism is not science...it is a belief about the past.

Both sides examine the exact same evidence.*


Hedshaker said:
6days said:
Sorry, but that is just plain silly. All scientists examine the exact same evidence. What is different is the interpretation. For example Anthony Flew was until recent years the worlds most prominent atheist. He wrote books and debated that there was no evidence for a creator. However, Flew was later convinced that there must be an intelligence that created. What changed?...*

ANTHONY FLEW*"What I think the DNA material has done is that it has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved in getting these extraordinarily diverse elements to work together. It’s the enormous complexity of the number of elements and the enormous subtlety of the ways they work together. The meeting of these two parts at the right time by chance is simply minute. It is all a matter of the enormous complexity by which the results were achieved, which looked to me like the work of intelligence".

...Antony Flew's change of heart, in his later years, is a week argument really...

Attacking the person rather than the argument he is making is a weak argument. *


Hedshaker said:
6days said:
Biblical creationists and atheistic evolutionists examine the same evidence, but interpret according to beliefs.

Except science is about examining falsifiable evidence and creationists rely on preconceived cherished beliefs which must be protected at all costs.*
Yes! That is sort of true, although evidence itself is not falsifiable. Evidence requires interpretation.... You have explained why evolutionism and creationism are not science. Evolutionism is a belief system that is not falsifiable. Creationism is a biased belief about the past, just as atheistic evolutionism is biased belief about the past. Both sides examine the same evidence and interpret according to their beliefs.

Hedshaker said:
6days said:
That is false. What Biblical creationists want is for your (and mine) beautiful grandchildren to be presented with all the evidence...to get the best education possible... not just atheist beliefs. What Biblical creationists want is academic freedom. Teachers need to teach what is in the curriculum, but should have the freedom to discuss strengths and weaknesses of different theories. We want kids to learn how to think...not what to think.

Yes, in my family, we teach our young the importance of critical thinking. We do not indoctrinate them in any direction, but equally it is our duty to see that their young minds are not infected with daft beliefs, which is why the teaching of creationism/intelligent design in our schools must, and will, be stopped.

Well... we are at least partially agreeing on this Hesdshaker. It is far better for parents and teachers to teach kids critical thought, *than attempting to indoctrinate. *Kids learn better when told how to think - *not what to think.


Hedshaker said:
6days said:
There is a difference between "modern scientific evidence" and interpretation.*

We have the History Book of the universe...God's Word. Although thousands of years old, the Bible is scientifically accurate. The "modern scientific evidence" always supports the Biblical account.

No it isn't. There is no science that explains a talking snake, the clinically dead coming back to life, a birth not including a male of the species or a gravity defying walk on water, to name but few. They are all myths that never happened.

True...or mostly true. Beliefs about the past are not science. Atheist beliefs that life comes from non life is not science. Believing that everything came from nothing is not science. Believing our DNA is a code that created itself is not science. Believing dinosaurs evolved into chickens is not science. That is scientism.*


However.... we can gather evidence to support our beliefs. The evidence supports the Biblical account is accurate and true.*

Hedshaker said:
*Your Bible was written and compiled by fallible pre-science men. There is no Gods word only words of ancient superstitious men

The Bible was certainly written and compiled by fallible men. But the Bible is Gods inerrant Word. Satan has been trying unsuccessfully for thousands of years to destroy, *or corrupt or find errors in Gods Word.

Hedshaker said:
6days said:
Not only are some scientists theists, but a growing number of PhD biologists, physicists, astronomers and geologists agree that evidence supports the Biblical account.
Good for them. Let them eventually join the flat Earthers and the Elvis spotters and the holocaust deniers where they belong. In the dustbin of history.

Fortunately for both of us, the great scientists throughout history have not *gone with the flow...that is what dead fish do. Contrary to what you seem to believe, science is not decided by a majority vote / consensus science. Bible believing PhD scientists have been an active group growing in numbers not just in North America but other countries such as South Korea and the USSR. It is an exciting time to be a Christian as science and scientists confirm the truth of God's Word. *
 

noguru

Well-known member
Creationism is not science...it is a belief about the past.

Evolutionism is not science...it is a belief about the past.

All scientific conclusions are understandings of past events. Of course the difference between evolution (the naturalistic model of origins) and creationism (the "supernaturalistic" model of origins) is that we can make predictions about future events based on evolution (the natural world). Then when those events have passed we can make conclusions about whether a prediction was verified/falsified. Which predictions about future events can you make using your supernatural YEC model of origins?
 

Hedshaker

New member
Creationism is not science...it is a belief about the past.

Evolutionism is not science...it is a belief about the past.

Both sides examine the exact same evidence.*

You're right, Evolutionism is not science. However, The Theory of Evolution is. But really are we going to play "a pound for an argument"? Believe what you want. Science will carry on just fine regardless.




Attacking the person rather than the argument he is making is a weak argument. *

No attack. When formally rational people change in old age it's a reasonable consideration. Either way, who cares what Flew thought?


Yes! That is sort of true, although evidence itself is not falsifiable. Evidence requires interpretation.... You have explained why evolutionism and creationism are not science. Evolutionism is a belief system that is not falsifiable. Creationism is a biased belief about the past, just as atheistic evolutionism is biased belief about the past. Both sides examine the same evidence and interpret according to their beliefs.

The Theory of Evolution is science. Creationism is Religion. If you want further argument you'll have to pay a pound :)


Well... we are at least partially agreeing on this Hesdshaker. It is far better for parents and teachers to teach kids critical thought, *than attempting to indoctrinate. *Kids learn better when told how to think - *not what to think.

That's similar to what I said. Teach them to think critically and rationally and always beware of bullsh!ters. But until they're old enough to decipher for themselves, keep the indoctrinators away.


True...or mostly true. Beliefs about the past are not science. Atheist beliefs that life comes from non life is not science. Believing that everything came from nothing is not science. Believing our DNA is a code that created itself is not science. Believing dinosaurs evolved into chickens is not science. That is scientism.*

Life must have come from none life at some point, and that's true whether your goddidit or it occurred naturally. I don't believe in supernatural magic so I'll stick with natural, if it's all the same with you.


However.... we can gather evidence to support our beliefs. The evidence supports the Biblical account is accurate and true.*

No it doesn't. More argument will cost you a pound ;)

The Bible was certainly written and compiled by fallible men. But the Bible is Gods inerrant Word. Satan has been trying unsuccessfully for thousands of years to destroy, *or corrupt or find errors in Gods Word.

And do you think Satan had any help from the pixies and fairies? I reckon the leprechauns might have had some input. Little blighter's!


Fortunately for both of us, the great scientists throughout history have not *gone with the flow...that is what dead fish do. Contrary to what you seem to believe, science is not decided by a majority vote / consensus science. Bible believing PhD scientists have been an active group growing in numbers not just in North America but other countries such as South Korea and the USSR. It is an exciting time to be a Christian as science and scientists confirm the truth of God's Word. *

You're right about one thing, "science is not decided by a majority vote" but then neither is it decided by preconceived, cherished religious beliefs. And like I say, there is no such thing as Gods Word. More argument on that will cost another pound.


a pound for an argument
 
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Hedshaker

New member
Originally Posted by 6days View Post
Creationism is not science...it is a belief about the past.

Evolutionism is not science...it is a belief about the past.

All scientific conclusions are understandings of past events. Of course the difference between evolution (the naturalistic model of origins) and creationism (the "supernaturalistic" model of origins) is that we can make predictions about future events based on evolution (the natural world). Then when those events have passed we can make conclusions about whether a prediction was verified/falsified. Which predictions about future events can you make using your supernatural YEC model of origins?

Well said :up:
 

6days

New member
Hedshaker said:
Your right, Evolutionism is not science. However, The Theory of Evolution is.

If you mean the belief in a common ancestor...that is not science.*


Hedshaker said:
No attack. When formally rational people change in old age it's a reasonable consideration. Either way, who cares what Flew thought?*

Who cares? Well atheists sure seemed to care buying his books and admiring him... until he declared that scientific evidence does not support atheism.*
Hedshaker said:
The Theory of Evolution is science. Creationism is Religion.

Evolutionism and creationism are both beliefs about the past and not science.

ToE does encompass real empirical science such as natural selection. Natural selection is also part of the Biblical creation model. Natural selection was written about *by a creationist before Darwin wrote about it. *Creationists and evolutionists examine the same evidence...the same science, but have different beliefs about the past.*

Hedshaker said:
That's similar to what I said. Teach them to think critically and rationally and always beware of bullsh!ters. But until they're old enough to decipher for themselves, keep the indoctrinators away.

We agree.

Hedshaker said:
Life must have come from none life at some point, and that's true whether your goddidit or it occurred naturally. I don't believe in supernatural magic so I'll stick with natural, if it's all the same with you.

You do believe in magic if you think life can come from non life.*

You do believe in magic if you think codes dont require a code maker.

Scientism is your religion if you believe in multi universes.*

What I believe is supported by science...We know that life only comes from life. And I believe that life giver is the Creator God of the Bible. The evidence supports the belief in a uncaused Creator.


Hedshaker said:
6days said:
However.... we can gather evidence to support our beliefs. The evidence supports the Biblical account is accurate and true.

No it doesn't.

Yes it does.

History, archaeology and science provide some of the external evidences that Gods Word is accurate.*

Hedshaker said:
6days said:
The Bible was certainly written and compiled by fallible men. But the Bible is Gods inerrant Word. Satan has been trying unsuccessfully for thousands of years to destroy, *or corrupt or find errors in Gods Word.

And do you think Satan had any help from the pixies and fairies?!

As I thought... you didnt answer the challenge that Gods Word is inerrant. Dont use a cut a paste list. But name one thing from God's Word that science, history or archaeology has conclusively proven wrong. *(Pick one item only,from any of the internet lists, you wish to defend)

Hedshaker said:
6days said:
Fortunately for both of us, the great scientists throughout history have not gone with the flow...that is what dead fish do. Contrary to what you seem to believe, science is not decided by a majority vote / consensus science. Bible believing PhD scientists have been an active group growing in numbers not just in North America but other countries such as South Korea and the USSR. It is an exciting time to be a Christian as science and scientists confirm the truth of God's Word.

You're right about one thing, "science is not decided by a majority vote" but then neither is it decided by preconceived, cherished religious beliefs.

We agree again!*
 

Mark SeaSigh

BANNED
Banned
All scientific conclusions are understandings of past events. Of course the difference between evolution (the naturalistic model of origins) and creationism (the "supernaturalistic" model of origins) is that we can make predictions about future events based on evolution (the natural world). Then when those events have passed we can make conclusions about whether a prediction was verified/falsified. Which predictions about future events can you make using your supernatural YEC model of origins?

I Predict, that none of you Evols, Can Locate a Single Intermediate Fossil.

===============================

Here is a YEC Prediction for you Evols;

According to YEC Model, I Predict, you wont be able to Locate any Intermediate Fossils Between Species. Being that God Made Each Species, Containing Every Anatomical Feature, Originally. They did not Slowly Gain Anatomical Features over time.


=M=
 

6days

New member
The Main Reason, Evolutionists Should not Debate Creationists Is; The Fact that there is No Evidence that Supports the Theory of Evolution.
That is correct Mark!
In debates evolutionists argue for their beliefs. Biblical creationists can stick to empirical evidence.
From ICR...
*evolutionists practically always lose such debates! The fact is that all genuine scientific evidence fits the creation model of origins much better than the evolution model. The fact that creationists generally win these debates is not at all because creationists are better debaters, but simply because there is no real scientific evidence for evolution. In fact, the National Center for Science Education, whose specific function is to monitor and oppose activities of creationists, recommends that evolutionists should always decline invitations to debate creationists, acknowledging that they will probably lose the debate.
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Yes Michael, I could certainly lose a few pounds.

Yep, I forgot to address that. I've got to lose 30 pounds. It takes time. I just hope that I don't gain it back. I would be bummed.[/quote]

100+ more like.;)
Yes, today it was 116 degrees for our high! Eeek! And I had to go to the doctor's office.

She once predicted she would be gone in 2012 so I'm doing quite well I think.

The Lake District.

I'm glad she was wrong. There's a reason that she's so old. How long did her Mom live?[/quote]

CDs? How quaint Michael. :D
These days I have a copy of all my music on couple of SD cards in the car. Times have changed since my first cassette player.

I don't know what an SD card is yet. My CD player is on a CD disc.
Can you back up your SD card in case someday it gets lost or stolen? Wouldn't want to lose all of that music!

There's nothing wrong in learning to swim slowly and one day finding that you can. :plain:


I don't think there is much in the way of beaches in London Michael, not when I lived there anyway.
;)

:e4e:

kI can swim now. Learned in High School in 10th grade. The coach taught us how to cup our hands fairly tight. I can even float almost indefinitely. Especially in an ocean which buoys you up more.

Well, I guess London might just have swimming pools. What I meant about beaches was around the east and west, and south of England, being surrounded by the Atlantic Ocean. Do you have sandy beaches or are they all rock? The ones here in AZ have rock and that sucks, because you can barely walk on the way in. You basically have to dive in to avoid the foot pain.

I will chat again with you soon, I hope. It's fun!!!

All The Best!!

Michael

:sheep: :drum:
 

Stuu

New member
In fact, the National Center for Science Education, whose specific function is to monitor and oppose activities of creationists, recommends that evolutionists should always decline invitations to debate creationists, acknowledging that they will probably lose the debate.[/b]
Please cite a reference for the National Centre for Science Education saying that they acknowledge they will "probably lose the debate", or have the decency to withdraw, maybe with an apology if you have any integrity.

Do you know the reasons why real scientists don't 'debate' creationists?

There are three main ones:
Firstly, creationists always indulge in the Gish Gallop, which is the dishonest tactic of swamping the audience with 100 claims at once, all of them ridiculous, but leaving no opponent with the time needed to address more than a few of the points in the depth required to explain why they are ridiculous (this could be a sense in which the National Centre for Science Education might mean they will "lose" a debate) and;

Secondly, as Richard Dawkins puts it, the 'debate' will look better on the creationist's CV than it will look on his: creationists are always looking for real scientists to 'debate' so their crackpot fantasies can bask in the reflected glow of real science, even though the oxygen of publicity is completely undeserved, and that is because:

Thirdly, there is no legitimate debate to be had. There is no valid creationist claim. They have all been refuted entirely.

If you would like to come up with a single example of an exclusively creationist truth claim that has not been decisively refuted, please tell us what it is.

And we can refute it for you here and now.

But don't come up with 100 at once. That's just dishonest.

Stuart
 

6days

New member
Please cite a reference for the National Centre for Science Education saying that they acknowledge they will "probably lose the debate", or have the decency to withdraw, maybe with an apology if you have any integrity.
Eugenie Scott "*there are examples of "good" debates where a well-prepared evolution supporter got the best of a creationist, but I can tell you after many years in this business that they are few and far between. "

She went on to try say the evolutionists hadn't prepared well enough. But the real reason creationists scientists win debates is that evidence best supports the Biblical model.
 
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