Complete border meltdown

[fzappa13]

Whoever it was parroting the republican damage repair on the immigration issue, and their imaginary third term for Obama.

I'm addressing a reality that I am living ... you are addressing an ideological fantasy you have chosen to embrace. You are a willing tool of those who would divide us along such lines for their own profit.

Wake up.

Politicians are not the answer nor is the false left/right paradigm they pimp.

 

[The Barbarian]

I'm addressing a reality that I am living ...

Stick around for the next democrat convention and we'll see if you're remakably astute or completely bonkers. I don't think a third term for Obama is going to be discussed, much less seriously considered. But I'll bookmark this and let you know how it turned out.

you are addressing an ideological fantasy you have chosen to embrace.

Actually, it's a Constitutional amendment. Twenty-second amendment. It's very real. Trust me on this. Or you could look it up.

You are a willing tool of those who would divide us along such lines for their own profit.

What would be the profit in dividing the realists from the delusional?

Wake up.

Reality has a lot of drawbacks, but it has the virtue of being true.

 

[fzappa13]

You're deliberately evading my point but, if you want to discuss the DNC let's do that. The 68' DNC; who were all those protesters there in Chicago, Republicans?

 

[The Barbarian]

You're deliberately evading my point

No, I'm just being tolerant of you bunny trail. You discovered your beliefs about illegal immigration didn't match the facts, so you took off in a different direction. I'm pointing out that your imaginary third term for Obama is not going to happen.

but, if you want to discuss the DNC let's do that.

Sorry, one bunny trail to a thread for you.

If you don't have anything at all to support your "meltdown at the border", I guess this one is over.

One last chance. What have you got that consistent with reality?

 

[resurrected]

You're deliberately evading my point...

of course fz - he's a dishonest troll

 

[fzappa13]

No, I'm just being tolerant of you bunny trail. You discovered your beliefs about illegal immigration didn't match the facts, so you took off in a different direction. I'm pointing out that your imaginary third term for Obama is not going to happen.



Sorry, one bunny trail to a thread for you.

If you don't have anything at all to support your "meltdown at the border", I guess this one is over.

One last chance. What have you got that consistent with reality?

Your reality is seen through the filter of your chosen ideology. I'm not married to a particular ideology so there are times that my observations will be acceptable/visible to you and other times they won't. To continually avoid my points and questions that you are either unwilling or unable to contend with belies an intellectual dishonesty that harms only you.

As it regards the "meltdown at the border", you may well be done with it but I live here and must contend with reality regardless of your or anyone else's ideology.

 

[The Barbarian]

Your reality is seen through the filter of your chosen ideology.

Sorry, I'm not into postmodernism. There's an objective reality that we can understand regardless of our ideologies, if we wish to do so. You have declined, preferring your "reality is what I want it to be" narrative.

I'm not married to a particular ideology

Do you honestly, after what you've written here, expect anyone to believe that?

And projecting your blinkered behavior on others won't help. You seem to have been completely unaware that we are catching more and more illegal immigrants at the border, even though fewer have been attempting to cross.

And when you saw the data, you threw up all sorts of rationalizations and excuses. And when it was inescapable, you fell back on the ideologue's final excuse; "they are all lying."

Do you think no one noticed?

As it regards the "meltdown at the border", you may well be done with it but I live here and must contend with reality regardless of your or anyone else's ideology.

As you just learned, reality is not what your ideology told you it must be.

The first step back is to accept the facts and try to form an explanation that fits the facts. Good luck.

 

[fzappa13]

Anyone notice a common theme here?

http://www.justice.gov/dea/fugitives/dal/dal_div_list.shtml

http://www.justice.gov/dea/fugitives/elp/elp_div_list.shtml

http://www.justice.gov/dea/fugitives/chi/chi_div_list.shtml

http://www.justice.gov/dea/fugitives/hou/hou_div_list.shtml

http://www.justice.gov/dea/fugitives/la/la_div_list.shtml

http://www.justice.gov/dea/fugitives/atl/atl_div_list.shtml


etc. etc.

 

[The Barbarian]

Anyone notice a common theme here?

Yep. You see why Obama is focusing on the criminal element? The guys who are here working and adding to the economy are one thing. Criminals are quite another, and it's good that we're after them first.

WASHINGTON — A program of cooperation between federal immigration authorities and state and local police departments has been effective at focusing deportations on immigrants with a criminal record, according to a report published Tuesday by the Migration Policy Institute, a nonpartisan research organization here.

The report found that at least 75 percent of immigrants deported by the Obama administration in the last five years through the program, known as Secure Communities, had been convicted of crimes. The report did not include information on the severity of the crimes that led to deportation, but they included both misdemeanors and felonies.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/30/us/report-finds-deportations-focus-on-criminal-records.html?_r=0

 

[Angel4Truth]

Anyone notice a common theme here?

http://www.justice.gov/dea/fugitives/dal/dal_div_list.shtml

http://www.justice.gov/dea/fugitives/elp/elp_div_list.shtml

http://www.justice.gov/dea/fugitives/chi/chi_div_list.shtml

http://www.justice.gov/dea/fugitives/hou/hou_div_list.shtml

http://www.justice.gov/dea/fugitives/la/la_div_list.shtml

http://www.justice.gov/dea/fugitives/atl/atl_div_list.shtml


etc. etc.

yes, and the best way to not have that problem is to secure the border and not let them sneak in here to begin with.

 

[resurrected]

Yep. You see why Obama is focusing on the criminal element?

breaking immigration laws isn't a crime?

 

[fzappa13]

Well, I guess the question that occurs to me is, if ANY president's immigration policy was in ANY way effective (that would be to say, effective to the end they claimed to seek publicly) how did we get to this point?

 

[fzappa13]

yes, and the best way to not have that problem is to secure the border and not let them sneak in here to begin with.

I have long argued that we either need to open the border or close it ... this in between business is causing an awful lot of angst and misery and I rather suspect that is the point and purpose of this manufactured reality we are now faced with. Create problems that necessitate the solutions offered soon thereafter.

 

[journey]

breaking immigration laws isn't a crime?

Crime = breaking the law.

 

[fzappa13]

Yep. You see why Obama is focusing on the criminal element? The guys who are here working and adding to the economy are one thing. Criminals are quite another, and it's good that we're after them first.

WASHINGTON — A program of cooperation between federal immigration authorities and state and local police departments has been effective at focusing deportations on immigrants with a criminal record, according to a report published Tuesday by the Migration Policy Institute, a nonpartisan research organization here.

The report found that at least 75 percent of immigrants deported by the Obama administration in the last five years through the program, known as Secure Communities, had been convicted of crimes. The report did not include information on the severity of the crimes that led to deportation, but they included both misdemeanors and felonies.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/30/us/report-finds-deportations-focus-on-criminal-records.html?_r=0

Looks like Obama's a bigot to me ... all he's worried about is prosecuting Meskins :chuckle: ... well, either that or ... that's who's moving drugs in our country at this point. Which is it?

 

[fzappa13]

My County Judge had what I thought was a really good idea. He suggested that, rather than stop folks bringing drugs across the border, stop the money going the other way. You get to keep it and, unlike drugs, you get to spend it legally and you take the profit out of the equation.

The Border Patrol does not stop south bound traffic :doh:

 

[The Barbarian]

Well, I guess the question that occurs to me is, if ANY president's immigration policy was in ANY way effective (that would be to say, effective to the end they claimed to seek publicly) how did we get to this point?

Years of neglect. It's a step forward, but you're not going to reverse a decade of mismanagement. You can become more effective at stopping people at the border, but it's a lot harder to get people who have been here for years, keeping a low profile.

I'm just pleased we're starting to nail more of the criminals. Truth is, in Texas, illegals add billions of dollars to the state economy, so they really aren't a problem here.

The bad guys are another issue, which is why it's good we're now focusing mostly on getting the criminals out.

 

[The Barbarian]

Looks like Obama's a bigot to me ... all he's worried about is prosecuting Meskins ...

Not unless they committed a serious crime. Mostly, they get deported. You know, illegally crossing is a civil offense, not a crime. And crime actually declined more in states with higher rates of immigration. So not what you've been told it is.

well, either that or ... that's who's moving drugs in our country at this point. Which is it?

I thought you lived in The Valley. You don't know who's responsible? Seriously?

 

[fzappa13]

Years of neglect. It's a step forward, but you're not going to reverse a decade of mismanagement.

A decade :rotfl: How old are you?

You can become more effective at stopping people at the border, but it's a lot harder to get people who have been here for years, keeping a low profile.

Those pics I offered ... did that look like a "low profile" to you?

I'm just pleased we're starting to nail more of the criminals.

Those were wanted posters ... not conviction notices.

Truth is, in Texas, illegals add billions of dollars to the state economy, so they really aren't a problem here.

This is true ... and as long as you don't have a problem with those dollars being a result of illegal drug trade and the effect that has on people I guess it's all good ... depending upon your ideology.

The bad guys are another issue, which is why it's good we're now focusing mostly on getting the criminals out.

ummmmmm... who's "We"?

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Years of neglect. It's a step forward, but you're not going to reverse a decade of mismanagement.

A decade

Yep. Bush dropped the ball, as you know. It started at the end of Clinton's administration, though. The "stand down" order you mentioned was Bush doing, though.

How old are you?

67.

Quote:
You can become more effective at stopping people at the border, but it's a lot harder to get people who have been here for years, keeping a low profile.

Those pics I offered ... did that look like a "low profile" to you?

Your neighborhood might be different, but most undocumented workers are pretty low profile, yes.

Barbarian observes:
I'm just pleased we're starting to nail more of the criminals.

Those were wanted posters ... not conviction notices.

From the conservative Washington Times:
The Obama administration has dramatically changed the composition of those it’s deporting now that President Obama’s non-deportation policy is in effect, setting an overall record for the number of people kicked out of the U.S. last year.

It’s more than the overall total of 409,849 deportations, which the administration released late Friday. In the final five weeks of the year, after the policy took effect, 78 percent of all aliens removed from the country had criminal records — up 50 percent from what it was before the policy was implemented.

Since taking the reins, Mr. Obama has dramatically rearranged the country’s deportation policy, increasingly turning attention away from rank-and-file illegal immigrants and focusing instead on gang members, aliens with criminal convictions and those who have violated immigration law repeatedly

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/dec/23/increase-in-deportations-hits-criminals/?page=all

Barbarian observes:
Truth is, in Texas, illegals add billions of dollars to the state economy, so they really aren't a problem here.

This is true ...

Of course it is. A republican comptroller did the study. This is why Perry wasn't so eager to start deporting more immigrants. Bad for bidness.

and as long as you don't have a problem with those dollars being a result of illegal drug trade and the effect that has on people I guess it's all good ... depending upon your ideology.

The study only focused on the state economy. Nothing about drugs.

Barbarian observes:
The bad guys are another issue, which is why it's good we're now focusing mostly on getting the criminals out.

ummmmmm... who's "We"?

America.