Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

Tambora

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that's how you twist simple truth.
That is how you present the truth.
You cannot come up with a mathematical equation for 1 Jim, 1 Judy, and 1 Timmy = 1 family.
But we know that 1 Jim, 1 Judy, and 1 Timmy does indeed = 1 family, just as 1 Adam + 1 Eve = 1 flesh, and just as 1 Father, 1 Son, and 1 Holy Spirit = 1 GOD.
 

meshak

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That is how you present the truth.
You cannot come up with a mathematical equation for 1 Jim, 1 Judy, and 1 Timmy = 1 family.
But we know that 1 Jim, 1 Judy, and 1 Timmy does indeed = 1 family, just as 1 Adam + 1 Eve = 1 flesh, and just as 1 Father, 1 Son, and 1 Holy Spirit = 1 GOD.

If I agree with your twisted version of the truth, I will be Trinitarian too.
 

truthjourney

New member
As far as how to operate the organization, JWs are simply following Paul's instructions.

That's why I am not much of Paul's fan.

BTW, you are still closing your eyes off persecutors of their so biased and unbiblical ways of naming their enemy Christians as non-believers, cult, and unsaved, heretics, child of devil etc...

It seems very clear to me you have been voicing biased and unfair judgement.
I don't quite understand what you mean. If you read one of my first posts I mentioned that I had compassion for JWs. It's those in leadership roles especially the Governing Body that I have a problem with because they have so much power and control over so many aspects of a person's life and the decisions that they aren't allowed to make on their own.

What do you mean that they follow Paul's instructions? From what I know they follow the Governing Body's instruction, rules, regulations and teachings.

How am I closing my eyes to their persecutions? I say what I'm saying because I care. I don't say that they aren't Christians because only God sees their hearts. I have met many JWs who are kind with good hearts who are sincere and really want to help people. Again, I have a problem with those in leadership especially the Governing Body. But there have been good men on the Governing Body like Ray Franz who was disfellowshipped for eating a meal with a disassociated person. He wrote a book called Crisis of Conscience that detailed things that he saw and experienced at the Watchtower that really bothered his conscience.

I hope I'm not coming across as being judgmental because that's not my intention.

Or are you referring to things that have been said to you. I'm a little confused.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
I don't quite understand what you mean. If you read one of my first posts I mentioned that I had compassion for JWs. It's those in leadership roles especially the Governing Body that I have a problem with because they have so much power and control over so many aspects of a person's life and the decisions that they aren't allowed to make on their own.

What do you mean that they follow Paul's instructions? From what I know they follow the Governing Body's instruction, rules, regulations and teachings.

How am I closing my eyes to their persecutions? I say what I'm saying because I care. I don't say that they aren't Christians because only God sees their hearts. I have met many JWs who are kind with good hearts who are sincere and really want to help people. Again, I have a problem with those in leadership especially the Governing Body. But there have been good men on the Governing Body like Ray Franz who was disfellowshipped for eating a meal with a disassociated person. He wrote a book called Crisis of Conscience that detailed things that he saw and experienced at the Watchtower that really bothered his conscience.

I hope I'm not coming across as being judgmental because that's not my intention.

Or are you referring to things that have been said to you. I'm a little confused.

Just a heads up, Meshak hates the Apostle Paul. Paul is wrong on just about everything she says. Just ask her, she will tell you.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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I don't put any stock in what "Mr. Religion" says. He apparently hasn't spoken with very many Trinitarians. I have, and all of them that I have had conversations with will say this:

The Father is God (that's 1 God)
The Son is God (that's 1 God)
The Holy Spirit is God (that's 1 God)

If you add them up, that's THREE GODS. Sorry, you can't get around that. 1 + 1 + 1 = 3
I will ignore the opening claims above and respond to the substance of your erroneous and jejune conclusion.

God is one What (essence) and three Who's (subsistences, aka Persons).

Essence and Person are not the same things. Essence refers to the being of God, while Person is used here as substance within being (subsisting as, subsistence).

The term Person does not mean a distinction in essence but a different subsistence in the Godhead. A subsistence in the Godhead is a real difference but not an essential difference in the sense of a difference in being. Each Person of the Godhead subsists or exists "under" the pure essence of deity. Subsistence is a difference within the scope of being, not a separate being or essence. All persons in the Godhead have all the attributes of deity.

Formally speaking, subsistence is the means of individuation of essence with respect to existence. Less formally, subsistence is the means by which essence exercises existence, or even more succinctly, subsistence means something that really exists.

So we can say that Person, with reference to the Trinity, means the one divine essence in a specific manner of existence and distinguished by this specific manner of existence from that one divine essence and the other Persons.

The divine essence does not exist independently along with the three Persons. The divine essence has no existence outside of and apart from the three Persons. For if the divine essence did, there would be no true unity, but a division that would lead into tetratheism.

Hence, Within the one Being that is God, there exists eternally three coequal and co-eternal persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

If we look a bit deeper the statement above can be parsed as follows:

1. There is in the divine Being (God) but one indivisible essence (ousia, essential, being), see Deuteronomy 6:4, 1 Corinthians 8:4, Galatians 3:20, 1 Timothy 2:5.
2. The nature of the one divine being, God, is inclusive of all the attributes of His being, that is, God is His attributes.
3. In this one divine Being (God) there are three personal distinctions (what the church throughout history calls Persons), or individual subsistences (personal modes of existence) Father, Son and Holy Spirit, see Genesis 1:1, 26, 3:22, 11:7, Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1, Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14.
4. The whole undivided essence of God belongs equally to each of the three persons, see John 6:27, Romans 1:7, 1 Peter 1:2, John 1:1, 14, Romans 9:5, Colossians 2:9, Hebrews 1:8, 1 John 5:20, Acts 5:3-4, 1 Corinthians 3:16.
5. The subsistence and operation of the three persons in the divine Being is marked by a certain definite order, see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, 1 John 4:14, John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, John 16:13-14.
6. There are certain personal attributes by which the three persons are distinguished, see 1 Corinthians 8:6, Revelation 4:11, Revelation 1:1, John 3:16-17, 1 Corinthians 8:6, John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17, John 1:1, 16:12-15, Matthew 11:27, Revelation 1:1, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Matthew 1:21, John 4:42, Genesis 1:2, Job 26:13, Psalm 104:30, John 16:12-15, Ephesians 3:5, 2 Peter 1:21, John 3:6, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 1:2, Isaiah 61:1, Acts 10:38.


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