Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

[marhig]

Good point.

Sleep is for the dead. All references to sleep as they refer to the believer are negative and relate to willful ignorance/ hypocrisy/ indifference/ unbelief/ putting off the day of the LORD.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Yes it's no good just saying "I believe" and doing nothing, we are to come out from among those of the world, and rest from our works in the flesh, be doers of the word and live by the will of God and God will help us to overcome.

 

[meshak]

Humiliated by the organizations:

I experienced the similar thing with Okinawan Baptist church.

I expressed my position of what Christian is because the Pastor was bashing JWs as not Christians and unbelieves and cult.

I was pulled out of the church and was refused to cooperate to evangelize to local people.

I was in tears and no one payed attention to me. They looked at me coldheartedly. No one offered me a ride even though they all knew I did not have transportation to go home. I walked home.

Organizational persecution is just not of Jesus.

 

[genuineoriginal]

They claim Jesus is "A god" Denying the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ is what all cults do. He is truly the stone upon which all unbelievers stumble.

You seem to be contradicting yourself.
If they claim Jesus is a god, they are affirming the deity of Jesus, not denying it.

Nonsense. When they say Jesus is a god, they are proving they are polytheistic like all the other heathens have been. A cult, as I said.

You are now agreeing that the Jehovah Witness is not denying the deity of Jesus.
You are now switching to the new complaint that Jehovah Witness is polytheistic because they call Jesus a god.

This is the same complaint that the Jews have against Trinity doctrine Christians.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I take it GO doesn't believe there will be a rapture either, since the word rapture isn't found in scripture.

I have searched the scriptures and have found that the Dispensationalists are wrong about the rapture.
It is not because the word "rapture" is not found in the Bible (the Latin Vulgate has the word rapiemur in it).
The reason that the Dispensationalists are wrong is that Paul was speaking about the Resurrection, but Dispensationalists try to split Paul's words about the Resurrection into two events.

 

[meshak]

I have searched the scriptures and have found that the Dispensationalists are wrong about the rapture.
It is not because the word "rapture" is not found in the Bible (the Latin Vulgate has the word rapiemur in it).
The reason that the Dispensationalists are wrong is that Paul was speaking about the Resurrection, but Dispensationalists try to split Paul's words about the Resurrection into two events.

thank you for your perspectives. Greatly appreciated.

 

[truthjourney]

JW operates according to the governing body.

they have to follow what they teach, or else.

That's exactly right. JWs won't admit that because it is forbidden to disagree or go against the Governing Body or to say anything against them. Sort of like blasphemy. And to do that has serious repercussions and all JWs know that.

 

[genuineoriginal]

In other words, you deny that Jesus is God come in the flesh.

No, that is not what I said.
I asked you to provide the verses that you are relying on to claim that Jesus is God come in the flesh.

You do realize that the verses that show this are too numerous to list out, and, undoubtedly, you will reject all of them.

That would seem to be a problem, since I have searched the scriptures to see whether those things were so.
I accept the entire Bible, not just a few verses here or there.

Therein lies the problem. Those who claim to be Christians, but then deny their ONLY SAVIOUR, cannot claim to believe in the very ONE they deny. :nono:

The Bible clearly states that God sent Jesus to be our savior.
Do you have a problem with that?

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.[/INDENT]

Do you think that God does not send others to be the savior of His people in times of need?

1 Samuel 9:15-16 15 Now the Lord had told Samuel in his ear a day before Saul came, saying, 16 To morrow about this time I will send thee a man out of the land of Benjamin, and thou shalt anoint him to be captain over my people Israel, that he may save my people out of the hand of the Philistines: for I have looked upon my people, because their cry is come unto me.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Let's see

1) They believe that Christianity died with the last of the apostles and was resurrected when "Pastor" Russell came on the scene. Eerily similar to Mormons in this regard.

True Christianity never died.
It has survived as a remnant throughout all denominations, no matter how far astray those denominations have gone.
The Jehovah Witness has not resurrected Christianity.

2) They also call the physical resurrection of Jesus as not true.

That is a valid concern.
Jesus had both a physical death and a physical resurrection.

3) There are only 144,000 "faithful" will make it to heaven. The rest will be on earth living apart from God.

That is a valid concern.
The 144,000 mentioned in the Bible are all from 12 tribes of the children of Israel.
They are not the only "faithful" and no Gentile will be a member of that 144,000.

4) They believe hell is mythical, a metaphor. Not a real place

Which hell are you referring to?
The hell described by most Christians, with the devil punishing the sinners, is a mythical place based on Greek mythology.
There is sheol, the grave, which is translated as hell.
There is the lake of fire, which is used by God to destroy death and hell (Hades).

So far you haven't provided anything as damning as the Catholic practice of idolatry, but Catholics are still considered to be Christians.

 

[meshak]

That's exactly right. JWs won't admit that because it is forbidden to disagree or go against the Governing Body or to say anything against them. Sort of like blasphemy. And to do that has serious repercussions and all JWs know that.

As far as how to operate the organization, JWs are simply following Paul's instructions.

That's why I am not much of Paul's fan.

BTW, you are still closing your eyes off persecutors of their so biased and unbiblical ways of naming their enemy Christians as non-believers, cult, and unsaved, heretics, child of devil etc...

It seems very clear to me you have been voicing biased and unfair judgement.

 

[meshak]

So far you haven't provided anything as damning as the Catholic practice of idolatry, but Catholics are still considered to be Christians.

so true.

 

[genuineoriginal]

One unity with 3 distinct persons that interact with one another.

You are claiming that there are 3 separate gods that work together?

the clear statements in Genesis 1 of GOD speaking as "us" and "our" (so GOD is clearly not one lone person), and that in that same chapter we have the statement of two being one.

How are Adam and Eve one flesh?
Are Adam and Eve two separate beings?

 

[NWL]

That's exactly right. JWs won't admit that because it is forbidden to disagree or go against the Governing Body or to say anything against them. Sort of like blasphemy. And to do that has serious repercussions and all JWs know that.

This is false. We as JW's are meant to have the same one mind in relation to the core teachings of the bible, God's true identity along with Jesus, the condition of the dead, God's purpose of the earth, Adamic sins, etc.

We are meant to have this one mind so that the church/true worshippers are not divided, since different teachings cause divisions which in turn causes sects and group off-shoots. This is 100% scriptural;

(1 Corinthians 1:10) Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.

JW's are allowed to have a difference in opinion in regards to other teachings but are advised to keep it to themselves less they cause a division (see 1 Cor 1:10 again).

Everything else, other than the core doctrines, is down to individuals conscience decisions or personal interpretation.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Exodus 3
11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt?
12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

John 8:42 42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.​

 

[meshak]

JW's are allowed to have a difference in opinion in regards to other teachings but are advised to keep it to themselves less they cause a division (see 1 Cor 1:10 again).

Why voicing your opinions is divisive?

So it is ok to humiliate the one whom you think divisive is ok to you?

 

[meshak]

I suppose if you are in the organization we should not have our own understanding of Jesus' teachings.

Thats why I don't believe it is biblical to have organization.


We cannot have our own relationship with God and Jesus if we are in man-made organization.

 

[NWL]

Why voicing your opinions is divisive?

Say I, as a JW, voice my opinion about subject A, others in my congregation hear this and some take my side regarding the matter, whilst others don't. Subject A becomes so topical that it causes tension and a disturbance in the congregation which effects attendance, people then start splinter groups which adhere all of JW teachings as well as this knew understanding of subject A. This has happened in all churches and all religions, hence the council we find in 1 Corinthians 1:10 to speak in union and to speak in agreement as to not cause divisions.

So it is ok to humiliate the one whom you think divisive is ok to you?

No christian should humiliate anyone, friend or foe.

 

[meshak]

Say I, as a JW, voice my opinion about subject A, others in my congregation hear this and some take my side regarding the matter, whilst others don't. Subject A becomes so topical that it causes tension and a disturbance in the congregation which effects attendance, people then start splinter groups which adhere all of JW teachings as well as this knew understanding of subject A. This has happened in all churches and all religions, hence the council we find in 1 Corinthians 1:10 to speak in union and to speak in agreement as to not cause divisions.



No christian should humiliate anyone, friend or foe.

Well, it was approved by the whole congregation. They could not see hypocrisy even when it was practiced in front of their eyes.

As far as organization is concerned, please read what I said that you missed.

 

[NWL]

Thats why I don't believe it is biblical to have organization.

If it's not biblical meshak then why is there counsel regarding association? 1 Corinthians 1:10 makes no sense unless there is some type of organisation. Other scriptures such as makes no sense unless there is some type of church/organisation. I think you should consider restarting your study.

(Hebrews 10:25) "..not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near.."

(Acts 2:42) "..And they continued devoting themselves to the teaching of the apostles, to associating together, to the taking of meals, and to prayers.."

 

[meshak]

Say I, as a JW, voice my opinion about subject A, others in my congregation hear this and some take my side regarding the matter, whilst others don't. Subject A becomes so topical that it causes tension and a disturbance in the congregation which effects attendance, people then start splinter groups which adhere all of JW teachings as well as this knew understanding of subject A. This has happened in all churches and all religions, hence the council we find in 1 Corinthians 1:10 to speak in union and to speak in agreement as to not cause divisions.





If it's not biblical meshak then why is there counsel regarding association? 1 Corinthians 1:10 makes no sense unless there is some type of organisation. Other scriptures such as makes no sense unless there is some type of church/organisation. I think you should consider restarting your study.

(Hebrews 10:25) "..not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near.."

(Acts 2:42) "..And they continued devoting themselves to the teaching of the apostles, to associating together, to the taking of meals, and to prayers.."

how to operate the organization is all Paul's instruction.

 

[Tambora]

You are claiming that there are 3 separate gods that work together?

Nope.

How are Adam and Eve one flesh?

GOD's word says so.