JW operates according to the governing body.
they have to follow what they teach, or else.
Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!
- Thread starter Apple7
- Start date
JW operates according to the governing body.
they have to follow what they teach, or else.
Oh, and I have tried to reason with her. Many people have, in fact. She just ignores the arguments made, and only response to those who agree with her.
KingdomRose
New member
Exactly. THREE Persons. The Trinity = three Persons. That means that you worship three Gods.
Father = God
Son = God
H.S. = God
Three Gods. You are a polytheist. You worship three Gods.
KingdomRose
New member
We follow what they teach because it corresponds with the Bible. If we see that what they teach does not agree with the Bible, we would not follow them.
You see, you guys make stuff up.
No, not three Gods.
One God, three Persons.
| 1. There is in the divine Being but one indivisible essence (ousia, essential), see Deuteronomy 6:4, 1 Corinthians 8:4, Galatians 3:20, 1 Timothy 2:5. 2. In this one divine Being there are three personal distinctions (what the church calls persons), or individual subsistences, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, see Genesis 1:1, 26, 3:22, 11:7, Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1, Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14. 3. The whole undivided essence of God belongs equally to each of the three persons, see John 6:27, Romans 1:7, 1 Peter 1:2, John 1:1, 14, Romans 9:5, Colossians 2:9, Hebrews 1:8, 1 John 5:20, Acts 5:3-4, 1 Corinthians 3:16. 4. The subsistence and operation of the three persons in the divine Being is marked by a certain definite order, see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, 1 John 4:14, John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, John 16:13-14. 5. There are certain personal attributes by which the three persons are distinguished, see 1 Corinthians 8:6, Revelation 4:11, Revelation 1:1, John 3:16-17, 1 Corinthians 8:6, John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17, John 1:1, 16:12-15, Matthew 11:27, Revelation 1:1, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Matthew 1:21, John 4:42, Genesis 1:2, Job 26:13, Psalm 104:30, John 16:12-15, Ephesians 3:5, 2 Peter 1:21, John 3:6, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 1:2, Isaiah 61:1, Acts 10:38. 6. The church confesses the Trinity to be a mystery beyond the comprehension of man (Romans 11:33-34). |
-from the debate thread linked above.
Sit down, hypocrite. I didn't call on you.
KingdomRose
New member
Oh I have been paying attention. We are talking about three Persons. That means that each one stands as one entity, one Being. In this universe everyone would ADD the three Beings, seeing as they are each a singular entity. It is not reasonable at all to multiply them! That is laughable.
Then why they don't even recognize the hypocrisy when they are practiced in front of them?
Why do you believe we need to be baptized into their organization?
truthjourney
New member
Jesus alone is our mediator and does not limit who this opportunity is available to.
Romans 3:21-30 "But now apart from law God's righteousness has been made manifest, as it is borne witness to by the Law and the Prophets; 22 yes, God's righteousness through the faith in Jesus Christ, for all those having faith. For there is no distinction. 23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and it is as a free gift that they are being declared righteous by his undeserved kindness through the release by the ransom [paid] by Christ Jesus. ... 29 Or is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also of people of the nations? Yes, of people of the nations also."
Hebrews 7:25 "Consequently he is able also to save completely those who are approaching God through him, because he is always alive to plead for them."
All people can avail themselves of forgiveness of sins through the new Covenant and thus have Jesus as their Mediator and High Priest. The New Covenant can only be applied to mankind by Jesus, not by any other humans.[/B] (1 Timothy 2:5)
History of this Doctrine
Why does the Watchtower claim Jesus is only Mediator for the 144,000? The history of the development of this concept provides the answer. The Watchtower did not always teach this distasteful doctrine. Russell taught that the role of Mediator was extended to all mankind.
Russell appears to have been thoroughly confused about the role of mediator. At times he felt that the 144,000 were not under the new covenant, at other times that they were under the New Covenant. When he taught that they were not under the New Covenant it followed that they did not need a mediator and that they (along with Jesus) played role of mediator for mankind.
Up to 1880 Russell taught that Jesus and the body of Christ (the 144,000) mediated for mankind, so the 144,000 were not included in the New Covenant.
"“It should be remembered that we are in him heirs of glory, not under the “new covenant,” which is still future, but in the ‘Abrahamic covenant."” Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Feb p.72
Russell changed his mind and from 1881 to 1907 said the Church is included in the New Covenant
"In a sense, the operation of the new covenant begins with the Gospel church and lifts us from the plane of degradation and sin-to a justified or reckoned perfect condition, from which we can go forward in the “narrow way,” becoming heirs of the first covenant."” Zion's Watch Tower 1881 Sep p.151
In 1907, Russell re-introduced his teaching that the “new covenant” is not made with the church at all.”
"It was very inconsistent for us to quote in one breath the Apostle's statement that we are members of the Isaac Seed, the children of the old, original Covenant, and then in the next breath to class ourselves as beneficiaries of the New Covenant." Zion's Watch Tower 1909 Jan 1 p.12 (See also Zion's Watch Tower 1909 Apr 1 p.110)
At least Russell believed Jesus role of mediator was for all mankind.
"Jesus will occupy this mediatorial relationship between God and men until he shall have accomplished fully the intended work-until he shall have brought back into full harmony with God every creature who, being brought to a knowledge of his Creator and his righteous laws, shall desire to be and to do in complete harmony therewith." Studies in the Scriptures - The New Creation p.398
To coincide with his moving the Great Crowd from heaven to earth Rutherford made an almost opposite claim that the New Covenant only applied to the 144,000. In 1934 Rutherford limited who Jesus could mediate for to just the 144,000 Spiritual Israelites.
"Christ Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant toward his own brethren, that is to say, spiritual Israel, during the period of time God is taking out from the nations a people for his name." Watchtower 1934 Apr 1 p.104
It was during this period that Rutherford introduced the concept that only 144,000 go to heaven.[B] The Watchtower was forced into the position of limiting the new covenant to the 144,000 because the Bible states that those under the covenant receive a heavenly resurrection.
Hebrews 10:16-22 "'This is the covenant that I shall covenant toward them after those days,' says Jehovah. 'I will put my laws in their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,'" 17 [it says afterwards:] "And I shall by no means call their sins and their lawless deeds to mind anymore." 18 Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer an offering for sin. 19 Therefore, brothers, since we have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 which he inaugurated for us as a new and living way through the curtain, that is, his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us approach with true hearts in the full assurance of faith, having had our hearts sprinkled from a wicked conscience and our bodies bathed with clean water.. . .
1 Corinthians 15:51-57 "We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. … The sting producing death is sin, but the power for sin is the Law."
Being determined to prove that only 144,000 go to heaven the Watchtower had no alternative than say that the New Covenant only applies to the 144,000. The Watchtower removed Jesus from being mankind's Mediator in order to support an inaccurate doctrine, that of an earthly resurrection. There is not a single scripture that discusses an earthly resurrection.
The introduction of these teachings was a critical turning point for the Watchtower Society. Even as the number of Jehovah's Witnesses grew over 144,000 Rutherford could have continued with Russell's teaching, allowing additional followers to be part of a heavenly Great Crowd. By sending the Great Crowd to earth and allowing only Jehovah's Witnesses to be part of it Rutherford was able to introduce the concept of narrow salvation. Russell's idea that the majority of mankind were to survive Armageddon could be extinguished. Salvation became dependant solely on belonging to the Watchtower Society. This use of control has continued ever since.
From that time forward the leaders of the Watchtower Society, as part of Spiritual Israel, could demand unquestioning obedience from the secondary class of other sheep.
"All of this should impress upon the minds of the other sheep why the Christian Greek Scriptures focus so much attention on Christ and his anointed brothers and their central role in the outworking of Jehovah's purposes. The other sheep therefore consider it a privilege to support in every way possible the anointed slave class while awaiting "the revealing of the sons of God" at Armageddon and during the Millennium. They can look forward to being "set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God."-Romans 8:19-21." Watchtower 2002 Feb 1 p. 23
"But that does not necessarily mean that they are marked for survival. They must be marked by the 'man with the secretary's inkhorn.' The facts show that "the faithful and discreet slave" class is doing that marking work today.-Matthew 24:45-47. All who want to be marked as having God's approval must accept the instruction that Jehovah is providing through that "slave" class and become true worshipers of Jehovah." Survival into a New Earth p.96
The resultant conclusion of Watchtower doctrine is that the Governing Body have elevated their role to that of mediators themselves.
This is all part of the history of JWs for anyone who is not too afraid to look into it and who really want to know the truth. Otherwise just keep following along and keep your eyes closed, deny all the false predictions, deny the changing doctrines disguised as "new light". "Truth" that keeps changing if that's what you consider to be the truth.
The good news is that many JWs have left the Governing Body religion. They have not left God. They have left behind a deceiving, misleading, damaging, corrupt organization. They have found out that there are good people in this world. They've made new friends. And even though their JW friends and family shun them, they are moving on and living happy and productive lives and they still love and worship God. Although sadly, some of them are having a harder time because of all the damage done to them while they were in the Governing Body religion, they are still hopeful and have support from people who truly love and care about them.
I told you not to get mad at me for simplifying what AMR said, and what do you do?...
Again, God is one God, each Person of the trinity is fully God, yet still there is only one God, and He is (Father, Son, Holy Spirit).
KingdomRose
New member
BTW, God wouldn't tell us something that was too mysterious for us to understand. The whole reason he inspired the Bible was to tell us important truths. He is not too difficult to comprehend. He tells us that he is the Most High, the Almighty. He tells us that his Son is who we know as Jesus Christ, and the Son is the "only begotten." Jesus said that God is greater than he is, even after he returned to heaven. The Holy Spirit isn't even a Person, and it never is treated as such. The only confusion is when men have thrown the Trinity into the mix. That doctrine is totally a pagan idea, and is surely beyond comprehension because it isn't a doctrine from God.
KingdomRose
New member
Yes I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. You might find our website interesting. If you would be interested, it is www.jw.org
That's right, that's why we don't need anyone else's teachings, besides Jesus'.
KingdomRose
New member
This is in response to truthjourney's post #1351.
Any response to my post #1329?
Any response to my post #1329?
You cannot dictate what the poster should do or not, Meshak.
Who do you think you are, hypocrite?
You ordered Rose to not to get mad at you.
Here you are lying about me. I say I am Jesus' follower and you say I am not.
You need to straiten up what you say.
You should not call anyone hypocrite when you are one yourself.