Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I just answered it. Read it again.

And I will look for the post I wrote to marhig about Michael and move it up.

Where did you answer it?

 

[KingdomRose]

Because I believe that Jesus Christ is the only Person in the universe that deserves to be chosen by God to "stand up" for his people. To say that Jesus is not Michael means that there is another Person that has the authority to mediate between God and men. To say that Jesus is not Michael means that you are calling another Person equal to Jesus in authority.

At Daniel chapter 12 Michael is directly linked to the Great Tribulation. In Jesus' discussion of this Great Tribulation, e.g., Matthew chapter 24, there is no mention of another individual coming with him in power and glory to do away with the wicked people. Have you seen anybody else said to be coming with Jesus? How could Daniel 12 be talking about someone else? Anyone who says Michael is equal to Jesus is obviously taking away Jesus' unique position. Therefore it stands to reason that Michael is the name Jesus has in heaven. Do you think that there is someone else that deserves Jesus' position? I don't.

"And at that time [the time of the end] shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:1,2, KJV)

Here is what I wrote about Michael. Why do I believe Jesus is Michael?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Not at all. I just can't believe someone could be so blind. The same could be said for most of you on these threads, unfortunately. I guess you don't get frustrated at all, eh? You just ignore what you don't want to answer.

I've been asking you a number of times; "What do you hope to accomplish here?" Will you answer that, or not?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Here is what I wrote about Michael. Why do I believe Jesus is Michael?

Michael signifies, Who is like God is what I found in a couple of commentaries, so, perhaps the word; Michael, does speak of Christ in the later times and perhaps not? However, that still doesn't take away from the fact that; Jesus is the Son of God and God the Son.

 

[Tambora]

There's no difference in a BEING and a PERSON.

Yes there is.
A family is a being.
A team is a being.
A council is a being.
A country is a being.
An army is a being.
A government is a being.
A church is a being.

All are ONE group (a unity) with individual persons.

 

[JudgeRightly]

He is uninformed. We have never been told to not debate online. It is his own opinion. Years ago we were instructed to stay away from the Internet because it was dangerous. Now JWs have a Website of our own! We also conduct Bible studies by email. Now what would be wrong with instant messaging? It's just email that is faster. And these religious forums? Not much different than emailing or instant messaging. Things have changed a great deal. Thankfully not many of us go into these forums, because not everybody is suitably experienced. It's tricky sometimes when an ex-JW comes into the forums and begins putting down the WTS and the Governing Body, and I can spot them easily. Others might not be able to and could become somewhat frustrated, not knowing all of our history, etc., like someone like me who is familiar with all of our history and all the reasons why we have done the things we have done.

So, basically, you're saying there's compartmentalization within the JW structure...

That's never a good thing.

You still didn't answer the question. It is a valid question. Jesus worships Jehovah. Why don't you?

Jesus honors His Father, and the Father honors the Son.

That is YOUR OPINION, not what the Bible teaches.

Um, yes, it is what the Bible teaches. You just don't know the Bible.

You are so screwed up it's pathetic. Sorry, but I had to say that.

:rotfl:

Sherman will probably come down on me for this. Anyone who really pays attention to what you are saying---

Which you clearly are not...

that Jesus is Jehovah

And He is.

but they are not the same Person

Jehovah is the name of God, who is Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

The name "YHWH" (Jehovah, Yahweh) applies to each PERSON of the Trinity coequally.

and they

Jesus is Jehovah. The Father is Jehovah. The Holy Spirit is Jehovah.

Jehovah is GOD, LORD.

God is one God, three Persons. Not one Person.

each are their own Person,

The Father is a Person. The Son is a Person. The Holy Spirit is a Person.

The Father is God.
The Son is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.

There is one God.
God is three Persons.

The three Persons are one God.

The Father is not the Son nor the Holy Spirit.
The Son is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is not the Father nor the Son.

Yet, the three are one God.

and yet the Father, Jehovah, and the Son are the same Person---

No, they are not.

Please stop making this strawman.

they can see that you don't know what you are saying.

Ad hominem much?

Of course I know what I'm saying.

You just can't understand it.

And you've got people here who agree with whatever you say.

Which is probably an indicator that I'm getting something right. Or that they agree with me. or that they like what I say...

If you said that Jesus wore purple underwear they'd give you a "thanks."

Funnily enough, (and yes, pretty funny you should say "purple underwear"...), purple is the color of royalty.

Jesus is the King of Kings, royalty. I wouldn't be surprised if He did wear purple underwear at some point...

Food for thought...

The blind leading the blind.

KR, why did Jesus speak in parables?

I don't normally call you any kind of name, even though you and the others regularly call me unkind things.

You're too nice. Ick.

I have always tried to reason with you all.

You're not very good at it. That, or your arguments just aren't as convincing as you think they are...

It's sad that you can't understand my points.

It's even sadder that you can't understand what God says in His Word.

There's no difference in a BEING and a PERSON. They mean the same thing in discussions about conscious individuals.

[MENTION=7209]Ask Mr. Religion[/MENTION], care to chime in? (Just on this, I've got the rest covered.)

No. The Bible doesn't say that anywhere.

Um, yes it does.

Try Hebrews 1:8-9.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I'm guessing KR didn't want to answer my question, so, he/she 'got outta Dodge.'

 

[musterion]

I would love to. I fear that it won't last long, though, because the management here tells me to stop disrupting the thinking of everybody else here. They threaten to throw me off the forum. But I will try, and we'll see how long it lasts.

[MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION]

Sherman, do you mind if KR starts a thread refuting the two pro-Trinity graphics that have been posted on this thread?

 

[drbrumley]

Oh.... great.....now explain what you mean please.

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Maybe it is just me, but you asked for verses to prove what I said. I provided a couple....now you want me to explain them? What I mean is believe and commit are the same word. The point is my friend, when you believe something, you are committed to it. As the late, great Adrian Rogers explained it to others, ofwhich I believe it to be true:

I did not believe about the plane that flew me from Augusta to Memphis; I believed in it. I committed myself to that airplane. I did not just say, "Those things can fly. I'm going to Memphis. I believe it can fly. I believe that man is a good pilot. I have confidence in the airline." No, I got on board and entrusted that pilot and that aircraft with my life. He who commits himself to that plane flies to Memphis. And he who commits himself to the Son of God lives forever with Him. I committed myself to that plane. He who commits himself to the Son of God is the one who is saved. Have you done this?

Is that better for you my friend?

:up:

 

[drbrumley]

Pops, there was a guy on this board a long time ago named Granite...he always said he USED to be a christian...I told him that was impossible. Once you know, you know, and you can't leave..

Once one has accepted the gift from God of eternal life, it is not possible to leave nor would one want to.

 

[Sherman]

[MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION]

Sherman, do you mind if KR starts a thread refuting the two pro-Trinity graphics that have been posted on this thread?

Pro trinity graphics? Really? No thanks. This is not a JW website.

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[popsthebuilder]

Maybe it is just me, but you asked for verses to prove what I said. I provided a couple....now you want me to explain them? What I mean is believe and commit are the same word. The point is my friend, when you believe something, you are committed to it. As the late, great Adrian Rogers explained it to others, ofwhich I believe it to be true:

I did not believe about the plane that flew me from Augusta to Memphis; I believed in it. I committed myself to that airplane. I did not just say, "Those things can fly. I'm going to Memphis. I believe it can fly. I believe that man is a good pilot. I have confidence in the airline." No, I got on board and entrusted that pilot and that aircraft with my life. He who commits himself to that plane flies to Memphis. And he who commits himself to the Son of God lives forever with Him. I committed myself to that plane. He who commits himself to the Son of God is the one who is saved. Have you done this?

Is that better for you my friend?

:up:

That is better, thanks.

You seem to be saying that real believe in onvolves commitment, or that believing a thing causes one to do certain things; in which case we would agree friend.

I believe faith to be effectual to the eventual point of faithfulness, but that such is only ever possible if one actually loves GOD; which of course brings one to genuinely desire to hear beleive and actually follow.



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[musterion]

Pro trinity graphics? Really? No thanks. This is not a JW website.

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No, so she can try to refute the two Trinity graphics posted on this thread. The ones I posted. She can't do it but has been shooting her mouth off...I say let her have a thread to put $$$ where her mouth is, but she is saying you won't allow it.

 

[Sherman]

No, so she can try to refute the two Trinity graphics posted on this thread. The ones I posted. She can't do it but has been shooting her mouth off...I say let her have a thread to put $$$ where her mouth is, but she is saying you won't allow it.

Let her spout off in this thread. This thread is about JWs and their warped theology. I don't want to encourage anti trinity threads.

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[God's Truth]

What does this even mean?

It means it is wrong to shame people for preaching obedience to Christ and it is only shameful not to obey him.

 

[God's Truth]

Are you speaking of what Christ preached to the lost sheep of the House of Israel and if so, could you provide some Scripture?

Christ is Lord over all. Everything Jesus said and did while he walked the earth is wisdom, life, and Spirit for all who obey.

 

[God's Truth]

Explain?

This thread is about worshiping Jesus. Do you really think a person can say they worship Jesus yet go against those who preach obedience?

John 8:49 "I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me.

Jesus honored his Father by obeying Him.
You don't honor Jesus by going against people who obey him.

 

[Apple7]

Well, why don't you worship Jehovah? Jesus did. (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12; I Corinthians 15:24-28) He continues to do so.

You can't even provide a reason why you should refer to yourself as a Christian.

Instead, you post a name and a number - of which, are Trinitarian renderings!

:rotfl:

 

[Apple7]

Where?

Yahweh speaks of ‘Yahweh your God’ in the third –person (Exo 15.26).

 

[Apple7]

Here is what I wrote about Michael. Why do I believe Jesus is Michael?

Talk about bass-ackwards.


Michael is Jesus’ Archangel...each is NOT the other.


And at that time, Michael shall stand up, the great ruler who stands for the sons of your people. And there shall be a time of distress, such as has not been from the being of a nation until that time. And at that time, your people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the Book. And many of those sleeping in the earth's dust shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches and to everlasting abhorrence. And those who act wisely shall shine as the brightness of the firmament, and those turning many to righteousness as the stars forever and ever. (Daniel 12.1 – 3)

Daniel 12 informs the reader that the Archangel Michael will be present at the First and Second Resurrections.

We know from scripture that the First Resurrection occurs for the Righteous ones following Jesus.

Observe that the First Resurrection is for ‘your’ people…NOT ‘his’ people…therefore, Michael cannot be Jesus.

Again, ‘your’ people is mentioned a second time, this time in relation to the ones written in The Book…of which, Revelation informs the reader is the Lamb’s Book of Life….NOT Michael’s Book of Life.